Flying Instructor or Airline Pilot????
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Airline/corporate/charter/instructor?
Hi there folks,
I am trying to get a feel out there why pilots fly? Do we do it for the money? Do guys love airline flying or is charter flying a navajo just as fun. I talked to guys that fly for the airlines and love it and talked to other guys that wouldn't even step in a jetliner cockpit because they love to fly that 200 mile charter flight on a king air or caravan. I need to hear more stories from other guys on this matter and their views. I also talked to guys that have been flying corporate or charter flying forever and love it.
thanks
kloe
I am trying to get a feel out there why pilots fly? Do we do it for the money? Do guys love airline flying or is charter flying a navajo just as fun. I talked to guys that fly for the airlines and love it and talked to other guys that wouldn't even step in a jetliner cockpit because they love to fly that 200 mile charter flight on a king air or caravan. I need to hear more stories from other guys on this matter and their views. I also talked to guys that have been flying corporate or charter flying forever and love it.
thanks
kloe
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You will find links to discussions about this and similar subjects in the Archive Reference Thread.
Scroggs
Scroggs
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hello,
just a little question :
I wonder if I do FI rating or not.
I have finished ATPL theory...
Some people say that instructor allows to make many hours, to fly, maintain skills etc...
But I heard that companies do not care about single engine hours...they take only 5 %. And sometimes they not recruit pilots with too many hours (sep), because of bad custom we can acquire...
but the problem, without FI rating, how can we fly if we don't get a job just after CPL/IR/MCC ??
many thanks!
just a little question :
I wonder if I do FI rating or not.
I have finished ATPL theory...
Some people say that instructor allows to make many hours, to fly, maintain skills etc...
But I heard that companies do not care about single engine hours...they take only 5 %. And sometimes they not recruit pilots with too many hours (sep), because of bad custom we can acquire...
but the problem, without FI rating, how can we fly if we don't get a job just after CPL/IR/MCC ??
many thanks!
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Yes single engine hours aren't always taken into consideration, but a flight instructors rating plus some instruction hours looks damn good on a CV full stop. For example it will work in your favour for when you get round to Captaincy or becoming a training Captain - it shows you can work with others, teach, and if youve been teaching PPLs got patience 
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I'm not so sure an airline would get too excited about SEP time, FI or not, when it comes to the command process. The amount and type of hours you have accumulated in a multi-crew airline environment would be of far more interest to them.
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If you had serious multi engine hours on an FI ticket then someone might sit up and say that is interesting. 1500 hours on a C152 doesn't set the world on fire anymore. Only problem is that to become a multi/CPL/IR instructor you will need serious twin time in the first place which will cost you an arm and a leg. By the time you have gotten that you might as well just apply for a job anyway. The days when Flybe et al would fall over themselves employing FI's is long gone.
I would hazard an educated guess and say that the average PPL instructor probably gets no more than 300-400 hours pa at best and earns circa £10k. It doesn't take much to work out that for most of us we would be better off sticking to our day jobs, renting from a local club, hour building in the US or buying a group share (or all of the above) when time permits than giving up 4-5 years of our lives working for nought and having very little to show for it at the end.
The only way I can see instructing getting you to the RHS is if (and a BIG if), you work in a large club/FTO at a biggish airfield with a mix of charter, biz jets and maybe the odd loco or two. You just might be in the right place at the right time and be able to do a bit of networking to land that first job. Unfortunately most newly qualified FI's head for the hills (literally) and end up to, quote scroggs, at "little snoring flying club".
Edited to add: The above clearly only applies to the UK. In the US, Oz, NZ etc you are to a large degree still expected to jump through the FI hoops before ever getting near to a regional TP operator.
I would hazard an educated guess and say that the average PPL instructor probably gets no more than 300-400 hours pa at best and earns circa £10k. It doesn't take much to work out that for most of us we would be better off sticking to our day jobs, renting from a local club, hour building in the US or buying a group share (or all of the above) when time permits than giving up 4-5 years of our lives working for nought and having very little to show for it at the end.
The only way I can see instructing getting you to the RHS is if (and a BIG if), you work in a large club/FTO at a biggish airfield with a mix of charter, biz jets and maybe the odd loco or two. You just might be in the right place at the right time and be able to do a bit of networking to land that first job. Unfortunately most newly qualified FI's head for the hills (literally) and end up to, quote scroggs, at "little snoring flying club".
Edited to add: The above clearly only applies to the UK. In the US, Oz, NZ etc you are to a large degree still expected to jump through the FI hoops before ever getting near to a regional TP operator.
Last edited by potkettleblack; 16th Oct 2006 at 13:55.
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Should I do my instructors Rating Straight after IR and MCC?
Hi all, basically am coming to the end of my IR training and will be joining the already big pile of people with an FATPL and 200 odd hours.
Aged 25, I have no contacts in the industry, no dad who is a training captain, I may hopefully have a first time pass in my IR to go with the one on my CPL but other than that I see nothing that is going to make me stand out amoungst the many hundreds of low hours wannabes cvs which might land on the desk of a chief pilot/ recruiter, yet alone stand out above the many instructors with a few hundred hours who might also be churning out CVs at any given time.
I am therefore resigned to the fact that It will take me a while and I will be very luck to be taken on by an airline in my current state and that I am probably gonna need something extra on my CV to open doors. I aint gonna pay for a TR so instructing would appear to be the way to go.
In short, should I do an instructors rating straight away and bulid up experience that way, or should I wait a few months to see if I can get a job with 200 ish hours first?
What are my chances with 200 hrs and no contacts? is it worth waiting a while b4 doing instructors.
Apart from getting a TR and building up experience through instruction, what other things could I do to make my CV stand out from the crowd?
Thanks.
Aged 25, I have no contacts in the industry, no dad who is a training captain, I may hopefully have a first time pass in my IR to go with the one on my CPL but other than that I see nothing that is going to make me stand out amoungst the many hundreds of low hours wannabes cvs which might land on the desk of a chief pilot/ recruiter, yet alone stand out above the many instructors with a few hundred hours who might also be churning out CVs at any given time.
I am therefore resigned to the fact that It will take me a while and I will be very luck to be taken on by an airline in my current state and that I am probably gonna need something extra on my CV to open doors. I aint gonna pay for a TR so instructing would appear to be the way to go.
In short, should I do an instructors rating straight away and bulid up experience that way, or should I wait a few months to see if I can get a job with 200 ish hours first?
What are my chances with 200 hrs and no contacts? is it worth waiting a while b4 doing instructors.
Apart from getting a TR and building up experience through instruction, what other things could I do to make my CV stand out from the crowd?
Thanks.
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Hmmm, I dunno. It seems that people with 200hrs are getting interviews. It also seems that my old instructors were hanging about for a while, but once they got the TR their feet didn't touch the ground. One reckoned that the TR seems the be the deciding factor and spending money on a FIC is money that could be more usefully utilised in other ways.
I think some of them browse the forum, maybe they can chip in and set me straight if I'm writing rubbish.
I think some of them browse the forum, maybe they can chip in and set me straight if I'm writing rubbish.
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What I meant was that I aint gonna go out and get a speculative TR. I accept that it is unlikely I will get a free TR from an Airleine. The idea of paying 20k for one up front isnt idea, so the best I can hope for I think is being bonded. I am realistic!
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Spent 3 and a bit years instructing, CFI for the last 2. Enjoyed it immensely, yes financially it was a struggle but wouldn't change the way I did things. Spent a year in a holding pool, didn't pay for my type rating, don't have a reduced salary ( although to be fair its not a huge salary), and at time of writting with my sim check tomorrow I haven't as yet signed a training fees agreement, and its flying a jet. All the instructors that I know have got airline jobs and its becoming sooner rather than later. You learn so much about flying as an instructor, maybe not necessarily airline flying but the experience you gain and making those command decisions on a daily basis will hold you in good stead. Plus its great fun!
Regards,
Han.
Regards,
Han.
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badboy,
From what i've seen lately, everyone and their granny appears to be getting jobs just now. Half a dozen FI's I know off have all gotten something, they've had to pay for TR's though. The flying school they were working at is beginning to wonder where its going to get replacements from, they just cant hold on to staff! Also, some of the low hour fATPL's I know have landed jobs aswell, both jet and TP.
I was thinking of doing the FI ticket myself but i think it wise to hold off and see if an airline job comes along first. I should have my first batch of carefuly targeted cv's out by the end of the week, hopefuly something turns up! Time will tell i guess.
From what i've seen lately, everyone and their granny appears to be getting jobs just now. Half a dozen FI's I know off have all gotten something, they've had to pay for TR's though. The flying school they were working at is beginning to wonder where its going to get replacements from, they just cant hold on to staff! Also, some of the low hour fATPL's I know have landed jobs aswell, both jet and TP.
I was thinking of doing the FI ticket myself but i think it wise to hold off and see if an airline job comes along first. I should have my first batch of carefuly targeted cv's out by the end of the week, hopefuly something turns up! Time will tell i guess.
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everyone and their granny appears to be getting jobs just now
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Token Bird,
You sound full of doom and gloom, im sure something will come your way though. I can only reiterate what I said previously, a load of FI's I know are being snapped up. The low hour fATPL's i know are also getting jobs. Admittedly, some have had to pay for tr's(in one form or another).
You sound full of doom and gloom, im sure something will come your way though. I can only reiterate what I said previously, a load of FI's I know are being snapped up. The low hour fATPL's i know are also getting jobs. Admittedly, some have had to pay for tr's(in one form or another).
The barometer of recruiting is BA. Not because they're any better than anyone else but because they're the biggest employer of pilots in this country. At the moment BA are recruiting hard. Ex-mil, fATPLs, other airline pilots are all getting hired and this is having a knock-on effect on second and third tier operators. Please don't bash BA but the truth is that very, very few people leave once they've got a foot in the door at BA.
Think I've forgotten the point I was trying to make but BA don't make you pay for your type-rating although Trainee Entry Pilots (TEPs) do start on a lower but still extremely pleasant salary.
Relatively speaking these are definitely the good times. Three years and earlier there was nothing happening at all. I know of former RAF fast jet guys with excellent credentials and decent blokes too (unbelievable I know) who were selling kitchens and loading bags.
Oh yes, maybe not everyone and their granny are getting jobs but I doubt it will be as good as this again for a long time. If you can't get a job now.....
Think I've forgotten the point I was trying to make but BA don't make you pay for your type-rating although Trainee Entry Pilots (TEPs) do start on a lower but still extremely pleasant salary.
Relatively speaking these are definitely the good times. Three years and earlier there was nothing happening at all. I know of former RAF fast jet guys with excellent credentials and decent blokes too (unbelievable I know) who were selling kitchens and loading bags.
Oh yes, maybe not everyone and their granny are getting jobs but I doubt it will be as good as this again for a long time. If you can't get a job now.....
Last edited by Megaton; 23rd May 2007 at 17:30. Reason: Just remembered why I'd posted in the first place....
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Iteresting read this thread, I was asking myself the same question six months to a year ago, but now I have made up my mind. Going to apply for jobs, give it six months and see where I am. If nothing comes I will go down the instructor route. With todays climate its got to be worth a go, you never know!
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Go for the FI rating. Im about to finish the FI course and its great fun. I already have a job lined up and so do 2 of the other 3 instructors on my course so in a week or two I will be getting paid to fly! I decided to take the plunge as i thought that it would cost me a few grand just to keep myself current over the 6-12 months that i would be applying for jobs even if i was lucky enough to get one, so this money may aswell pay for half of the FI course.
Most schools are looking for instructors at the moment so there are plenty of jobs around and if there are plenty of instructing jobs then the instructors must be leaving to go somewhere.
Most schools are looking for instructors at the moment so there are plenty of jobs around and if there are plenty of instructing jobs then the instructors must be leaving to go somewhere.
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Quote:
I'm beginning to think I might bypass the airline industry completely and go my own route to what I really want to do!
Purely interested. What's that then?
I'm beginning to think I might bypass the airline industry completely and go my own route to what I really want to do!
Purely interested. What's that then?
TB
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I would be interested to know which airlines have taken people on. I have been sending out applications for about a year continuously and have got virtually nowhere. The small number of people I know who have managed to secure jobs without having a type-rating have been picked up directly from their schools as soon as they completed their training, rather than having applied independently.
Most instructors I know of who are now in the airlines have had to end up paying for type-ratings after years of instructing. As for the instructors at my own airfield, one is going down the Ryanair SSTR route and another is going on the questionable MyTravel scheme, so I see little evidence of an massive upturn. Things are definitely better than they were 3 years ago when no-one could get a job, but they still aren't brilliant!
TB
Most instructors I know of who are now in the airlines have had to end up paying for type-ratings after years of instructing. As for the instructors at my own airfield, one is going down the Ryanair SSTR route and another is going on the questionable MyTravel scheme, so I see little evidence of an massive upturn. Things are definitely better than they were 3 years ago when no-one could get a job, but they still aren't brilliant!
TB
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The harsh reality is that the market is probably about as good as it has ever been and I can't see it getting any better. If the projected housing market crash occurs then it will only get worse as people tighten their purse strings and the first things to go are the holidays. Airlines such as BA and Ryanair are already noting that loads are down hence the seat sales going on.
If people can't get jobs when the likes of Thomsonfly, Easyjet, Jet2, Ryanair, Aer Arran, BA, Aer Lingus, Eastern, BMI & Flybe are recruiting (just to name the ones I know about) then there is little hope or they need a severe reality check and ask themselves the tough question as to what they are doing wrong. Sending out CV's works for only a small minority. If you are lucky to be called for interview via this method without anyone at a company knowing anything about you other than reading your 1 page CV then you should go and buy a lottery ticket. The majority get interviews through recommendations from schools or inside contacts eg: pilot friends or working for an airline in another capacity. The latter come from putting in hard work and developing relationships.
If people can't get jobs when the likes of Thomsonfly, Easyjet, Jet2, Ryanair, Aer Arran, BA, Aer Lingus, Eastern, BMI & Flybe are recruiting (just to name the ones I know about) then there is little hope or they need a severe reality check and ask themselves the tough question as to what they are doing wrong. Sending out CV's works for only a small minority. If you are lucky to be called for interview via this method without anyone at a company knowing anything about you other than reading your 1 page CV then you should go and buy a lottery ticket. The majority get interviews through recommendations from schools or inside contacts eg: pilot friends or working for an airline in another capacity. The latter come from putting in hard work and developing relationships.