Helping somebody with constant PFOs
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helping somebody with constant PFOs
Could I ask all the pruners for their advice with this one. Have a friend who's looking for advice on getting that first job. He did the Astraeus 737 type rating and completed over 100 hours line training with them but is now out in the cold. Last month he had the misfortune of failing the ryanair sim check with not much reason given.
I've told him it's tough this time of year but things will look up in a few months, but it's hard not to feel for the guy. He's applied most of europe with airlines and agencies and keeps getting the usual PFOs. Anybody know where else I can point him to. I've mentioned Eagle Jet but thats not guaranteeing him a job, just a big bill. And I know some of you don't agree with his way of getting a rating, I told him off for it too, but he is where he is now and i'd like to try help him out.
Any idea's in which direction I should point him?
D.A.
I've told him it's tough this time of year but things will look up in a few months, but it's hard not to feel for the guy. He's applied most of europe with airlines and agencies and keeps getting the usual PFOs. Anybody know where else I can point him to. I've mentioned Eagle Jet but thats not guaranteeing him a job, just a big bill. And I know some of you don't agree with his way of getting a rating, I told him off for it too, but he is where he is now and i'd like to try help him out.
Any idea's in which direction I should point him?
D.A.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid if I had an answer, I would probably have a job too. Just tell him not to think bad about himself for failing the check with Ryan Air. They fail about 9 out of each 10 candidates and you have to pay 250 pounds per sim check, what does that tell you.....
Keep trying is the only sensible answer. I have seen it happen around me with friends and they get a job again. Good luck!
Keep trying is the only sensible answer. I have seen it happen around me with friends and they get a job again. Good luck!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Berlin
Age: 48
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
You can tell your friend that FR is not the only airline in europe to look for type rated pilots with 100 hours on type.
As summer will be coming there will be airlines that will be turned out by pilots at the last moment.... patience...
You can tell your friend that FR is not the only airline in europe to look for type rated pilots with 100 hours on type.
As summer will be coming there will be airlines that will be turned out by pilots at the last moment.... patience...
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ex-DXB
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It depends upon who you want to work for......though your 'mate' could always continue to pay to work for the very unethical Ash Trays R us? Way Hey 
Failing any flying test is horrible. My sympathies...
Actually its a bit of a shame as Ryanair is a more or less a banker to 'employ' you straight from Ashtrays as both compliment each other well if you consider how they deliberately set up programs to exploit low hour pilots with desperation and money. I do know of one bod who managed to get in to Thomsonfly though, so possibly there's still hope when they next recruit.
I may have got the wrong idea but if you were at the BALPA EOC last month, I got the message that SSTR's were being looked upon by airlines with increasing unfavour. Ive spoken to a few Airlines who I would like to work for and they have echoed these sentiments
But at the very least you can say that your 'mate' is on the ladder.
However, it might be easier to draw up a list of who won't take your mate...
Failing any flying test is horrible. My sympathies...
Actually its a bit of a shame as Ryanair is a more or less a banker to 'employ' you straight from Ashtrays as both compliment each other well if you consider how they deliberately set up programs to exploit low hour pilots with desperation and money. I do know of one bod who managed to get in to Thomsonfly though, so possibly there's still hope when they next recruit.
I may have got the wrong idea but if you were at the BALPA EOC last month, I got the message that SSTR's were being looked upon by airlines with increasing unfavour. Ive spoken to a few Airlines who I would like to work for and they have echoed these sentiments
But at the very least you can say that your 'mate' is on the ladder.
However, it might be easier to draw up a list of who won't take your mate...
Last edited by Craggenmore; 14th Nov 2005 at 17:14.
Jet2 were looking recently. Ad in Flight plus Jet2
edited to say...
"Opps sorry, just looked myself and it's 737 Captains they're after. At the moment. A site worth bookmarking for your friend?"
edited to say...
"Opps sorry, just looked myself and it's 737 Captains they're after. At the moment. A site worth bookmarking for your friend?"
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: seat 0A
Age: 41
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know he has bills to pay, but maybe he should look to start on something a little smaller than a 737! There are plenty of jobs available in GA for those prepared to look.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But who is going to touch someone with a 737 rating who is going to leg it if there is a sniff of a jet job.
Unfortunatly by getting a Jet rating you are removing yourself from over 50% of the UK market for low houred pilots
Unfortunatly by getting a Jet rating you are removing yourself from over 50% of the UK market for low houred pilots
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the devils advocate,
if your mate is a bit eloquent in the german language he should try with air berlin. they are constantly taking on crew...not sure if german is a definate requirement although it surely wouldnt hurt...has he tried in turkey? heard they are looking for pilots...the middle east??how about in asia?? a type rating has to be worth something...atleast a little bit!
as for him failing the ryan air sim check...hey, bad luck! keep your head up and keep on going! I´ve seen people forget what NDB stands for in a sim check...and mind you, these were people already flying for an airline! Just add enough pressure...
as for buying a type rating...i wouldnt do it. a.) because i simply dont have the money b.) because i think the airline should pay for the rating...how in gods name are you going to pay all of that back? with a crappy salary and no life?!? no thanks. but thats just my 5 cent worth.
take care guys and dont give up.
if your mate is a bit eloquent in the german language he should try with air berlin. they are constantly taking on crew...not sure if german is a definate requirement although it surely wouldnt hurt...has he tried in turkey? heard they are looking for pilots...the middle east??how about in asia?? a type rating has to be worth something...atleast a little bit!
as for him failing the ryan air sim check...hey, bad luck! keep your head up and keep on going! I´ve seen people forget what NDB stands for in a sim check...and mind you, these were people already flying for an airline! Just add enough pressure...
as for buying a type rating...i wouldnt do it. a.) because i simply dont have the money b.) because i think the airline should pay for the rating...how in gods name are you going to pay all of that back? with a crappy salary and no life?!? no thanks. but thats just my 5 cent worth.
take care guys and dont give up.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Somewhere probing
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to clear up any doubt, might I point out that 'The Devils Advocate' is not the same person as my own name sake 'Devils Advocate'.
Cheers - the original 'Devils Advocate'
Cheers - the original 'Devils Advocate'
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Berlin
Age: 48
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"by getting a Jet rating you are removing yourself from over 50% of the UK market for low houred pilots"
True, but without a rating you don t have also much chances : 800 applications sent, response was, no rating, no hours, no phone call !
So I thing that he did the right thing. Then maybe was he not enough prepared for this simulator ? When can you friend reapply with FR ?
Try with SkyEurope.
good luck.
True, but without a rating you don t have also much chances : 800 applications sent, response was, no rating, no hours, no phone call !
So I thing that he did the right thing. Then maybe was he not enough prepared for this simulator ? When can you friend reapply with FR ?
Try with SkyEurope.
good luck.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if they sent 800 applications they need to have a look at their CV. And the over all picture that the companys are recieving with the CV.
To many people are using stock CV's and standard covering letters. You need to put time and effort into each letter sent.
The standard format pilots CV should be pretty sparce. And the personal interests and previous jobs are pretty much the only difference between every 250 hour pilot. The only place you can really sell yourself is in the covering letter. A well researched personal covering letter shows you have made the effort to know a bit about the company and what they operate. Even to the sado point of finding out some personal interests of the bloke you are sending it to and including them. e.g If you know the guy used to be a competion gliding champion get a couple of lessons and include on your CV that you are currently learning to glide. £30 pounds well spent because appart from improving your CV its bloody good fun.
Anyone who has sent 100+ applications really does need to have a look at what they are doing. As per say they have the same as another 3000 pilots out there chasing the same jobs. What is different about their CV compared to the people that do get the interview?.
Stick 737 on the cv it hasn't really changed it that much apart from cutting you out of the turbo prop and taxi market. Stick a FI on it and an additional 1000hours. That kicks you into a market of low hundreds instead of thousands plus your current. Then stuff like showing you have peoples skills comes in which is usually pretty easy for an Instructor to show on a CV.
And the is maybe a miss conception out there what they are actually looking for in a sim check. As well as being able to fly they are also looking for the speed you are able to learn. Which is the reason why quite often you will do the profile twice with a debrief in the middle. They are looking for improvment. Some old crusty farts out there advise that you arn't quite as hot on the tolerances on the first trip. The turn it on for the second one. But I am sure most sim instructors are aware of this ploy. Then there is the CRM aspects which are very hard to compare.
And 500 pounds spent going to proffesional aviation CV writer who can give you advice on what people are looking for and the key words to use is alot better money spent than 25K on a Jet type rating.
I think pilot pete on PPrune used to run a company which dealt with advice on CV's and interviews.
MJ
To many people are using stock CV's and standard covering letters. You need to put time and effort into each letter sent.
The standard format pilots CV should be pretty sparce. And the personal interests and previous jobs are pretty much the only difference between every 250 hour pilot. The only place you can really sell yourself is in the covering letter. A well researched personal covering letter shows you have made the effort to know a bit about the company and what they operate. Even to the sado point of finding out some personal interests of the bloke you are sending it to and including them. e.g If you know the guy used to be a competion gliding champion get a couple of lessons and include on your CV that you are currently learning to glide. £30 pounds well spent because appart from improving your CV its bloody good fun.
Anyone who has sent 100+ applications really does need to have a look at what they are doing. As per say they have the same as another 3000 pilots out there chasing the same jobs. What is different about their CV compared to the people that do get the interview?.
Stick 737 on the cv it hasn't really changed it that much apart from cutting you out of the turbo prop and taxi market. Stick a FI on it and an additional 1000hours. That kicks you into a market of low hundreds instead of thousands plus your current. Then stuff like showing you have peoples skills comes in which is usually pretty easy for an Instructor to show on a CV.
And the is maybe a miss conception out there what they are actually looking for in a sim check. As well as being able to fly they are also looking for the speed you are able to learn. Which is the reason why quite often you will do the profile twice with a debrief in the middle. They are looking for improvment. Some old crusty farts out there advise that you arn't quite as hot on the tolerances on the first trip. The turn it on for the second one. But I am sure most sim instructors are aware of this ploy. Then there is the CRM aspects which are very hard to compare.
And 500 pounds spent going to proffesional aviation CV writer who can give you advice on what people are looking for and the key words to use is alot better money spent than 25K on a Jet type rating.
I think pilot pete on PPrune used to run a company which dealt with advice on CV's and interviews.
MJ
Last edited by mad_jock; 15th Nov 2005 at 09:15.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Uk
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot Pete is not the only one who does CV and intereview coaching. A search here will reveal a couple of others who are worth considering.
How do people manage to send out 800 CVs? Man that is a lot! THey must be sending each company about 10 CVs.
How do people manage to send out 800 CVs? Man that is a lot! THey must be sending each company about 10 CVs.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, Thank you for all your replies. To the "real" devils advocate, my appologies, I'll have to look in to editing my name a little 
I'll pass on the advice given. He mentioned applying to Sky Europe but got the "Only in case your Blah will meet our Blah for the next selection we will contact you" sort of thing That never inspired me with hope when I was applying for a job. I'm not flying in Europe so I can't really advise him the best, but of Asia as somebody mentioned, are companys like air asia and tiger airways still going strong?
As for a cv mad-jock, you could be correct about him wanting to update it, i've seen it and it sure doesn't stand out in any way. The only good thing he's done with it is to always attach letters of reference from the captains he's flown with.
Freightdoggy I hope something comes up for you soon, and I know herta is correct, come the start of the summer season there will be a lot of jobs on offer
I'll pass on the advice given. He mentioned applying to Sky Europe but got the "Only in case your Blah will meet our Blah for the next selection we will contact you" sort of thing
That never inspired me with hope when I was applying for a job. I'm not flying in Europe so I can't really advise him the best, but of Asia as somebody mentioned, are companys like air asia and tiger airways still going strong?As for a cv mad-jock, you could be correct about him wanting to update it, i've seen it and it sure doesn't stand out in any way. The only good thing he's done with it is to always attach letters of reference from the captains he's flown with.
Freightdoggy I hope something comes up for you soon, and I know herta is correct, come the start of the summer season there will be a lot of jobs on offer
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Attaching stuff on to a CV in the UK is a bit of a no no. Unless your sending it to a smoker and you attach 10 B&H.
It's one side of A4 max, with 1 side of A4 as the covering letter.
if you like and can de-personalised it. Stick it on the thread and we can all rip it to shreads.
MJ
It's one side of A4 max, with 1 side of A4 as the covering letter.
if you like and can de-personalised it. Stick it on the thread and we can all rip it to shreads.
MJ
