Pilot wannabe! Am I deluded?
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Pilot wannabe! Am I deluded?
Hi
I'm not expecting a definitive answer to the question in my title, but I'd appreciate some sound advice.
I'm 27 an have no flying experience (expect 15 mins in a glider and an hour in a Cessna). When I left school I had decided that my career ambition was to become a civilian pilot. At that time my thoughts were purely to fly passenger aircraft to the usual holiday destinations - not the most adventurous of thoughts!
I studied for A-Levels Maths & Physics and passed those with relative ease. I also did a course in officer preparation designed to improve leadership qualities. I had found it quite hard to get good information at the time about how to become a pilot. Careers advisors were stumped about where to get the information, and I was a naive 18 year old. So I looked at sponsorship possibilities with BA and at the time they were not recruiting. Other sponsorship schemes seemed to cost £30K which was, of course, out of my budget. Perhaps I should have investigated financing this further.
I have since attended interviews with BA and passed the aptitude tests but fell down at the interview stage. I think I was too wild at the time, and hadn't really settled down. I remember telling them I wanted to be a rockstar or something!
With that rejection I ended up in a job, then another, then another. I met my wife, got married, had kids etc. My life has been running away with me for several years and I've been trying hard to work out what my long term plan is. So I'm thinking again about the possibility of becoming a pilot and I'm interested in sponsorship schemes from EasyJet and Flybe (no mention of these on here, perhaps as they are for people with no flying qualifications).
What I'd like to know is if these schemes are going to be possible for someone in my position. I have a wife and 2 kids and a mortgage to consider. I've also got some debt already (not much) which I need to clear rather than add to.
I'm absolutely positive that I have the ability to do the job. I also have the ambition and in my maturity I have learned how to apply my mind to tackle the training involved. My aptitude has been tested by BA and the RAF and I've passed on both occasions. I've also got broader ambitions within the flying realm - no longer do I want purely to fly to Malaga every day. I now have an interest in flying short-haul journeys and would probably find more satisfaction flying lighter aircraft/prop powered etc.
What I'm concerned about is how I would live during the training period. Let's assume I am successful in my application to one of these schemes, then how could I support my family during the training? What about my home, would I have to sell up due to not being able to afford the mortgage? Would I have to spend lots of time away at training schools?
Perhaps someone could suggest a better solution than gaining sponsorship.
Finally, would a prospective employer be put off by the fact that for 9 years I have done next to nothing in furthering my chances at a flying career?
Many thanks for reading
Rich
I'm not expecting a definitive answer to the question in my title, but I'd appreciate some sound advice.
I'm 27 an have no flying experience (expect 15 mins in a glider and an hour in a Cessna). When I left school I had decided that my career ambition was to become a civilian pilot. At that time my thoughts were purely to fly passenger aircraft to the usual holiday destinations - not the most adventurous of thoughts!
I studied for A-Levels Maths & Physics and passed those with relative ease. I also did a course in officer preparation designed to improve leadership qualities. I had found it quite hard to get good information at the time about how to become a pilot. Careers advisors were stumped about where to get the information, and I was a naive 18 year old. So I looked at sponsorship possibilities with BA and at the time they were not recruiting. Other sponsorship schemes seemed to cost £30K which was, of course, out of my budget. Perhaps I should have investigated financing this further.
I have since attended interviews with BA and passed the aptitude tests but fell down at the interview stage. I think I was too wild at the time, and hadn't really settled down. I remember telling them I wanted to be a rockstar or something!
With that rejection I ended up in a job, then another, then another. I met my wife, got married, had kids etc. My life has been running away with me for several years and I've been trying hard to work out what my long term plan is. So I'm thinking again about the possibility of becoming a pilot and I'm interested in sponsorship schemes from EasyJet and Flybe (no mention of these on here, perhaps as they are for people with no flying qualifications).
What I'd like to know is if these schemes are going to be possible for someone in my position. I have a wife and 2 kids and a mortgage to consider. I've also got some debt already (not much) which I need to clear rather than add to.
I'm absolutely positive that I have the ability to do the job. I also have the ambition and in my maturity I have learned how to apply my mind to tackle the training involved. My aptitude has been tested by BA and the RAF and I've passed on both occasions. I've also got broader ambitions within the flying realm - no longer do I want purely to fly to Malaga every day. I now have an interest in flying short-haul journeys and would probably find more satisfaction flying lighter aircraft/prop powered etc.
What I'm concerned about is how I would live during the training period. Let's assume I am successful in my application to one of these schemes, then how could I support my family during the training? What about my home, would I have to sell up due to not being able to afford the mortgage? Would I have to spend lots of time away at training schools?
Perhaps someone could suggest a better solution than gaining sponsorship.
Finally, would a prospective employer be put off by the fact that for 9 years I have done next to nothing in furthering my chances at a flying career?
Many thanks for reading
Rich
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Your prority should be with your family now and that may mean making sacrifices. You need to start from a strong financial situation, because it is a long and demanding road that bleeds your pocket dry!
No harm in applying for sponsorship, FLYBE started today, but be sensible and think about how your are going to look after you and your family!
Just my opinion, but do plenty of research.
No harm in applying for sponsorship, FLYBE started today, but be sensible and think about how your are going to look after you and your family!
Just my opinion, but do plenty of research.
Do it. Regret what you did, not what you didn't
CG
That was a quick response cos my previous didn\'t work- the longer one:
I\'m 48, financially ok, spoiled my school chances, joined the RAF as a loadie and enjoyed it.
Finally a PPL.
I never took enough financial risks- didn\'t buy a house in Farnham for 22k, bought at home for 19.5k! And so on.
At 27, if your family are up for it, go for it.
CG
CG
That was a quick response cos my previous didn\'t work- the longer one:
I\'m 48, financially ok, spoiled my school chances, joined the RAF as a loadie and enjoyed it.
Finally a PPL.
I never took enough financial risks- didn\'t buy a house in Farnham for 22k, bought at home for 19.5k! And so on.
At 27, if your family are up for it, go for it.
CG
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I'll be very careful. It's all very well saying follow your dreams etc etc.
But the reality is that it will cost you at least £40,000 and 1 year off work (no pay) and then it could take you up to 5 years to get a job (average 2 years). I know at least 5 unemployed low hour pilots that have been trying for years to get a job and the longer it takes the less likely you are to be employed (due regency).
If your wife has a good job and you are prepared for 5 years of hard slog, then ok but tread carefully. You are doing the right thing soliciting ideas here. Also if you do manage to secure a sponsorship then fair enough (job guarantee being the biggest thing).
Also don't forget that F/O pay starts around £20,000pa. Check out www.ppjn.com for more info.
I'm not saying no but..........................think carefully.
BB
But the reality is that it will cost you at least £40,000 and 1 year off work (no pay) and then it could take you up to 5 years to get a job (average 2 years). I know at least 5 unemployed low hour pilots that have been trying for years to get a job and the longer it takes the less likely you are to be employed (due regency).
If your wife has a good job and you are prepared for 5 years of hard slog, then ok but tread carefully. You are doing the right thing soliciting ideas here. Also if you do manage to secure a sponsorship then fair enough (job guarantee being the biggest thing).
Also don't forget that F/O pay starts around £20,000pa. Check out www.ppjn.com for more info.
I'm not saying no but..........................think carefully.
BB
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Hi
If you didnt have a family (namely children) you could apply to all the sponsorship schemes you wanted, but as this is the case i dont think you should underestimate the lack of control you would have over your life if you were to get on a scheme.
The easyjet scheme is run through the training company called CTC and has a very large posting on this forum (the wannabes section) under 'CTC Wings'. I dont know much about the flybe scheme other than it is only partial sponsorship, so you would have to find, I would imagine, something in the order of 15-30k. As for the easyjet programme, if you got through you spend 9 months in New Zealand and you have fairly little say over where you're geographically based upon employment (you could even be placed in another country-- Germany).
Additionally you're bonded for 7 years. You take out a 60k unsecured bank loan from HSBC for the bond and are allowed to borrow 5k for living expenses in New Zealand, so borrowing on top to keep paying the mortgage is really out of the question. As for the flybe scheme, its through a training company called cabair, based in cranfield so you would have to live there for a year.
I dont mean to sound so bleak, but financially speaking it would be very difficult to go through the sponsorship route unless you had enough money before you begin to see you and your family through about 1-1 and a half years with no income at all (getting even a part time job whilst doing the course is a relative impossibility.
Right, enough negative stuff--I dont know your financial or family life situation so the above is only food for thought, not gospel. However, from your posting I would suggest you also look into two other routes...
1. Save like crazy until you have around 20-30k then borrow the rest needed for an integrated course at OAT. HSBC will only lend money (a maximum of 50k) for courses here because it is a well repected training school. The whole course costs around 71k (inclusive of food and board) and would put you in good stead for getting a job at the end. However if you choose to do this it is advisable to fund as much as possible yourself as you should, despite what the marketing of OAT says, be prepared for the fact that it could take you a year or more to land a job in aviation after graduation--point is, whatever happens you want a managable monthly repayment that you can realistically pay. The reason HSBC is better over other lenders is because they give something called the 'professional studies loan' which means you start repayments 6 months after finishing the course. The other thing to consider is how long it would take you to save up the 20-30k AND also have enough to pay the mortgage for a year as the same applies here as it does with the sponsorship route--no income for a year and you would have to live in oxford during that time. On top of all this you could be repaying massive loan repayments every month with no job round the corner. Ive no idea what you earn at the moment but imagine adding another 500 pounds to the mortgage every month for 8 years.
2. Your second option, and to be honest probably the most viable in your position is to go through the modular route whereby you do everything needed for a frozen ATPL at your own pace and pay for it as you go rather than pay 60k odd for a full time course that lasts a year. Its a hell of a lot cheaper (you could do it all for around 30-40k) and you could possibly get a small loan to subsidise this (HSBC wont do it but you could maybe borrow 10k from any loans company to get you started and pay the rest as you go along). The drawback of course is it will take longer to do as you are doing it in chunks according to what you can afford at the time and 30-40k is still an awful lot of money (you wouldnt want to spread it over more than 3 or 4 years to not look unemployable). Also there is much debate over how repected by employers the modular route is (there is quite a difference in price to an integrated from OAT). Generally people argue to the hilt about modular v integrated in terms of respectability depending on which route they took (obviously). Beware of any advice of this industry from people that deals in absolutes.
In terms of your age and the respectability of a modular course the answer really is 'how long is a piece of string'. You could get a job within a week or still be receiving knockbacks 3 years down the line (of course this is where the sponsorship route is best). There is plenty on this website that advocates both positive and negative outcomes. This is the point at which you must understand that nothing is guaranteed in the aviation industry and the 'do or die', 'regret v stability' thing comes into it. Unfortunately only you can look at your current family life and make that decision. The main reason I would advise you to go down the modular route is that it is the best way to do what you want without putting your financial situation and family at too much risk or emotional strain. My advice would be to go for it...but...before you do anything, spend as much time as you can trawling through pprune and all other internet sources. If flying is truely what you want to do this process should be a pleasure to do and certainly not arduous). Your family should be your number one concern and the depth of your research should reflect this, but there are certainly ways to become a pilot with minimum of upset to your status quo--just no guarantees unfortunately.
Lastly, to answer your question about not doing anything aviation related for the past 9 years i dont personally think any employer would care at all. The issue is your age, not what you did prior to getting a licence. This inertia, coupled with the complications of having a family and a mortgage is more likely to affect getting sponsorship in terms of them taking a risk on you but if you can convince them otherwise it shouldnt be a problem. After all, you have passion and maturity on your side.
I would recommend you discuss it with your family and if they're behind you 100 per cent then see what you can do about having no income for a while and then apply to every sponsorship scheme you can. Failing that, look into modular. Given your track record with aptitude tests im sure you would do well at any route--it is more the social and financial ramifications you must have a good think about.
Whatever you eventually choose to do though, I wish you all the best. Feel free to pm me if you like.
el00oc
If you didnt have a family (namely children) you could apply to all the sponsorship schemes you wanted, but as this is the case i dont think you should underestimate the lack of control you would have over your life if you were to get on a scheme.
The easyjet scheme is run through the training company called CTC and has a very large posting on this forum (the wannabes section) under 'CTC Wings'. I dont know much about the flybe scheme other than it is only partial sponsorship, so you would have to find, I would imagine, something in the order of 15-30k. As for the easyjet programme, if you got through you spend 9 months in New Zealand and you have fairly little say over where you're geographically based upon employment (you could even be placed in another country-- Germany).
Additionally you're bonded for 7 years. You take out a 60k unsecured bank loan from HSBC for the bond and are allowed to borrow 5k for living expenses in New Zealand, so borrowing on top to keep paying the mortgage is really out of the question. As for the flybe scheme, its through a training company called cabair, based in cranfield so you would have to live there for a year.
I dont mean to sound so bleak, but financially speaking it would be very difficult to go through the sponsorship route unless you had enough money before you begin to see you and your family through about 1-1 and a half years with no income at all (getting even a part time job whilst doing the course is a relative impossibility.
Right, enough negative stuff--I dont know your financial or family life situation so the above is only food for thought, not gospel. However, from your posting I would suggest you also look into two other routes...
1. Save like crazy until you have around 20-30k then borrow the rest needed for an integrated course at OAT. HSBC will only lend money (a maximum of 50k) for courses here because it is a well repected training school. The whole course costs around 71k (inclusive of food and board) and would put you in good stead for getting a job at the end. However if you choose to do this it is advisable to fund as much as possible yourself as you should, despite what the marketing of OAT says, be prepared for the fact that it could take you a year or more to land a job in aviation after graduation--point is, whatever happens you want a managable monthly repayment that you can realistically pay. The reason HSBC is better over other lenders is because they give something called the 'professional studies loan' which means you start repayments 6 months after finishing the course. The other thing to consider is how long it would take you to save up the 20-30k AND also have enough to pay the mortgage for a year as the same applies here as it does with the sponsorship route--no income for a year and you would have to live in oxford during that time. On top of all this you could be repaying massive loan repayments every month with no job round the corner. Ive no idea what you earn at the moment but imagine adding another 500 pounds to the mortgage every month for 8 years.
2. Your second option, and to be honest probably the most viable in your position is to go through the modular route whereby you do everything needed for a frozen ATPL at your own pace and pay for it as you go rather than pay 60k odd for a full time course that lasts a year. Its a hell of a lot cheaper (you could do it all for around 30-40k) and you could possibly get a small loan to subsidise this (HSBC wont do it but you could maybe borrow 10k from any loans company to get you started and pay the rest as you go along). The drawback of course is it will take longer to do as you are doing it in chunks according to what you can afford at the time and 30-40k is still an awful lot of money (you wouldnt want to spread it over more than 3 or 4 years to not look unemployable). Also there is much debate over how repected by employers the modular route is (there is quite a difference in price to an integrated from OAT). Generally people argue to the hilt about modular v integrated in terms of respectability depending on which route they took (obviously). Beware of any advice of this industry from people that deals in absolutes.
In terms of your age and the respectability of a modular course the answer really is 'how long is a piece of string'. You could get a job within a week or still be receiving knockbacks 3 years down the line (of course this is where the sponsorship route is best). There is plenty on this website that advocates both positive and negative outcomes. This is the point at which you must understand that nothing is guaranteed in the aviation industry and the 'do or die', 'regret v stability' thing comes into it. Unfortunately only you can look at your current family life and make that decision. The main reason I would advise you to go down the modular route is that it is the best way to do what you want without putting your financial situation and family at too much risk or emotional strain. My advice would be to go for it...but...before you do anything, spend as much time as you can trawling through pprune and all other internet sources. If flying is truely what you want to do this process should be a pleasure to do and certainly not arduous). Your family should be your number one concern and the depth of your research should reflect this, but there are certainly ways to become a pilot with minimum of upset to your status quo--just no guarantees unfortunately.
Lastly, to answer your question about not doing anything aviation related for the past 9 years i dont personally think any employer would care at all. The issue is your age, not what you did prior to getting a licence. This inertia, coupled with the complications of having a family and a mortgage is more likely to affect getting sponsorship in terms of them taking a risk on you but if you can convince them otherwise it shouldnt be a problem. After all, you have passion and maturity on your side.
I would recommend you discuss it with your family and if they're behind you 100 per cent then see what you can do about having no income for a while and then apply to every sponsorship scheme you can. Failing that, look into modular. Given your track record with aptitude tests im sure you would do well at any route--it is more the social and financial ramifications you must have a good think about.
Whatever you eventually choose to do though, I wish you all the best. Feel free to pm me if you like.
el00oc
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Very good advice from el00oc there.
Being 27 myself with a mortgage also, I decided on modular. One point not mentioned above about modular is that there are better "walk-away" options as your training progresses. By that I mean you can break it down into stages where you can walk away at the end of each stage with something tangible. For me, I looked at it like this:
Stage 1 - PPL and ATPL theory.
Always wanted the PPL anyway and I'm willing to take a hit on the ATPL theory cost because it'll be the least enjoyable part for me (and most others) to get through. If I complete it, chances are I'll enjoy the rest of my training. If I enjoy the flight training first and then fail the exams, well I'd have wasted an awful lot of money. If I don't get past the exams, at least I'll have my PPL.
Stage 2 - Hour-building/CPL and possibly an FI rating
Hour-building is a reward for getting through the ATPL theory. Head off to the States/Canada/SA/wherever and enjoy a great holiday with 100hrs flying thrown in for the price of just 100hrs flying at home. You'll be back in the swing of things then when you do your CPL course. After CPL you can decide whether to do an instructor rating to build further hours - if you feel that an extra 12/18 months won't make much difference age-wise when you have 800-1000 hours to balance against it. Worst case here, you walk away as a Flight Instructor, either part-time for enjoyment (and to get something back on your investment, albeit over a good number of years) or full-time as a career.
Stage 3 - Instrument Rating/MCC
This is a major investment, best part of £15k/€20k, and the clock starts ticking too, in that you'll want an airline job asap before you need to start paying out again for IR renewals etc. For my own circumstances, I expect to be working in my current job up until this point, so this is most likely gonna be the make-or-break decision for me.
Hope this helps you out a bit. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.
Being 27 myself with a mortgage also, I decided on modular. One point not mentioned above about modular is that there are better "walk-away" options as your training progresses. By that I mean you can break it down into stages where you can walk away at the end of each stage with something tangible. For me, I looked at it like this:
Stage 1 - PPL and ATPL theory.
Always wanted the PPL anyway and I'm willing to take a hit on the ATPL theory cost because it'll be the least enjoyable part for me (and most others) to get through. If I complete it, chances are I'll enjoy the rest of my training. If I enjoy the flight training first and then fail the exams, well I'd have wasted an awful lot of money. If I don't get past the exams, at least I'll have my PPL.
Stage 2 - Hour-building/CPL and possibly an FI rating
Hour-building is a reward for getting through the ATPL theory. Head off to the States/Canada/SA/wherever and enjoy a great holiday with 100hrs flying thrown in for the price of just 100hrs flying at home. You'll be back in the swing of things then when you do your CPL course. After CPL you can decide whether to do an instructor rating to build further hours - if you feel that an extra 12/18 months won't make much difference age-wise when you have 800-1000 hours to balance against it. Worst case here, you walk away as a Flight Instructor, either part-time for enjoyment (and to get something back on your investment, albeit over a good number of years) or full-time as a career.
Stage 3 - Instrument Rating/MCC
This is a major investment, best part of £15k/€20k, and the clock starts ticking too, in that you'll want an airline job asap before you need to start paying out again for IR renewals etc. For my own circumstances, I expect to be working in my current job up until this point, so this is most likely gonna be the make-or-break decision for me.
Hope this helps you out a bit. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.
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Great advice, thank you all.
I am quite keen on the flybe sponsorship at Cranfield because I live quite local to that already (45 minutes drive). I wonder if that would be close enough to keep my family in familiar territory while I train.
The financial situation would be the biggest hurdle by far. I've been running my own business but it just isn't taking off (pardon the pun!) and it's left us with some debts and a mortgage that is a little too high. Perhaps we'd have to sell our home if I decided to take the plunge. I'd probably end up with 10-20K capital out of that which could be useful
Modular approach sounds most affordable and I like the reduced risk in this - ie if I run out of cash at least I've got something to walk away with. Although is a PPL much use on its own for anything other than pleasure?
I think I'm probably going to give this years sponsorships a miss and wait another 10-12 months. I'm either going to get my business turning over a decent profit or go back to my previous career in IT to try and get some capital. During that time I'll research the industry and entry routes in depth. I'll see where I am this time next year. Is it worth me applying for sponsorships this year just to "try out". If I get awarded one I could say that after considering the financial burdens that I need to wait until I can manage more easily. Or would that have a negative effect?
Too many questions I know, and not enough answers probably! The aviation industry is like a secret club!
Oh, one other thought - would it be wise to look for aviation related employment, something that gets close to the flying side of things? I've got little experience of anything other than IT on paper, but I'm a very capable and flexible person with the ability to learn new skills easily. Perhaps even a business-type position within an airline would be good.
I am quite keen on the flybe sponsorship at Cranfield because I live quite local to that already (45 minutes drive). I wonder if that would be close enough to keep my family in familiar territory while I train.
The financial situation would be the biggest hurdle by far. I've been running my own business but it just isn't taking off (pardon the pun!) and it's left us with some debts and a mortgage that is a little too high. Perhaps we'd have to sell our home if I decided to take the plunge. I'd probably end up with 10-20K capital out of that which could be useful
Modular approach sounds most affordable and I like the reduced risk in this - ie if I run out of cash at least I've got something to walk away with. Although is a PPL much use on its own for anything other than pleasure?
I think I'm probably going to give this years sponsorships a miss and wait another 10-12 months. I'm either going to get my business turning over a decent profit or go back to my previous career in IT to try and get some capital. During that time I'll research the industry and entry routes in depth. I'll see where I am this time next year. Is it worth me applying for sponsorships this year just to "try out". If I get awarded one I could say that after considering the financial burdens that I need to wait until I can manage more easily. Or would that have a negative effect?
Too many questions I know, and not enough answers probably! The aviation industry is like a secret club!
Oh, one other thought - would it be wise to look for aviation related employment, something that gets close to the flying side of things? I've got little experience of anything other than IT on paper, but I'm a very capable and flexible person with the ability to learn new skills easily. Perhaps even a business-type position within an airline would be good.
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hi chaps. iam 25 and currently taking the modular route. i also have wife 2 kids,2 cars and a cat! I chose the modular route because although i was accepted on to the intergrated course at cabair i could only afford the course and not to live for the year. hsbc will lend for a modular course,when i applied i hadn't even chosen a school! i was fortunate in that i have a lot of equity in my house to secure the loan and put it on mortgage if i do not get a job within 6 months of finishing. i have also dropped to working part time so i can finish training still within a year.my wife is a student so money will be tight however when applying for the loan i factored in living expenses to cover the loss of earnings.i did ppl here in approx 7 wks now on to atpl theory.my figures for the bank were based on the multiflight package i.e 30k full time modular plus living.(i am not at multiflight though due location) my advice- give it a go i went in the raf as a tech and spent all day watching the pilots swan by thinking that should be me! only live once etc
