type ratings too expensive?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
type ratings too expensive?
Hi,
Was looking at the costs of type ratings and couldn´t really figure out why they were so expensive here in europe. Most of the training is done in the simulators and classrooms, much similar to MCC, except for the heavier theory and extra hours in the sim. But is this difference really so great, that the ratings become so expensive?
The MCC is around 6000euro´s for 30 hours in the Airbus 320 in Spain. Yet the type rating is more than 20.000Euro´s at the same school(without the 1 hr in the real thing).
I think this is pretty much the same picture in the rest of Europe.
So why such a huge difference in price?
jules
Was looking at the costs of type ratings and couldn´t really figure out why they were so expensive here in europe. Most of the training is done in the simulators and classrooms, much similar to MCC, except for the heavier theory and extra hours in the sim. But is this difference really so great, that the ratings become so expensive?
The MCC is around 6000euro´s for 30 hours in the Airbus 320 in Spain. Yet the type rating is more than 20.000Euro´s at the same school(without the 1 hr in the real thing).
I think this is pretty much the same picture in the rest of Europe.
So why such a huge difference in price?
jules
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Holland
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cost of proper instructors = experienced pilots = expensive training 
MCC just need somebody with an unfroizen ATPL. TR needs type rated guys (SFI /TRI or TRE ) that are sought after.
MCC just need somebody with an unfroizen ATPL. TR needs type rated guys (SFI /TRI or TRE ) that are sought after.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mmmmh
Dutchie,
can you also explain why a type rating of a B737-300EFIS is only $ 8,000 in USA (without base check) ?
And the cost of the same type rating in Frankfurt is EUR 16,000, without base check ?
FAA TRI/TRE get less money ? I don't think so.
Generally speaking there is an incredible difference in price between ICAO and JAR type ratings.
I think that, as usual, European market rips you off. Prices for type ratings are just too expensive.
I think many people are considering the route of getting the ICAO type rating, do 500hrs on type and then converting to JAR, if a skill test is passed in an approved JAR TRTO.
Best Regards,
N2334M.
can you also explain why a type rating of a B737-300EFIS is only $ 8,000 in USA (without base check) ?
And the cost of the same type rating in Frankfurt is EUR 16,000, without base check ?
FAA TRI/TRE get less money ? I don't think so.
Generally speaking there is an incredible difference in price between ICAO and JAR type ratings.
I think that, as usual, European market rips you off. Prices for type ratings are just too expensive.
I think many people are considering the route of getting the ICAO type rating, do 500hrs on type and then converting to JAR, if a skill test is passed in an approved JAR TRTO.
Best Regards,
N2334M.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
t.r in usa cost less cuz the faa doesnt ask you to fly the real aircraft. then consider the cheap us dollar to eu dollar.
these 2 things make an icao faa type rating less expensive than the jaa one.
13000 US dollar in the usa(FAA ICAO)
20000 EU dollar in the USA (JAA ICAO)
if you have to convert from FAA to JAA, at the end, you will pay the difference....thank you CAA to screw all of us.
CAA=
these 2 things make an icao faa type rating less expensive than the jaa one.
13000 US dollar in the usa(FAA ICAO)
20000 EU dollar in the USA (JAA ICAO)
if you have to convert from FAA to JAA, at the end, you will pay the difference....thank you CAA to screw all of us.
CAA=
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real answer is a massive difference in the simulator cost per hour between the US and Europe. Its a supply/demand thing.
Also remember MCC courses are sold as "spare time" and are usually at unsociable hours. Meanwhile MCC instrustors do not get paid a training captains or ground instructor's salary.
Also remember MCC courses are sold as "spare time" and are usually at unsociable hours. Meanwhile MCC instrustors do not get paid a training captains or ground instructor's salary.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
The real answer lies in the fact that the CAA, for no conceivable reason other than blatant shameless protectionism of their mates in the European training industry, have passed this daft rule that says they will not recognize type ratings issued outwith JAA countries (unless they have 500 hours on type).
The sheer breathtaking arrogance of an outfit, that can sit there and decree that a Boeing type rating issued by the manufacturer at the factory is not up to European standards of safety.
After all there are some really dodgy TRTOs out there in the non-European wilderness ... goodness me, the British couldn't possibly consider compromising their superior European safety standards by allowing their wannabes to go get their type ratings issued by someone like Flightsafety (the biggest training provider in the world) or Qantas (the airline with the best safety record in history) ... or United Airlines ... or Cathay Pacific
It is an outrageous law that has no conceivable safety basis whatsoever, and is costing UK / European wannabes millions and millions of unnecessary pounds a year in extortionately high sim charges
If I thought there was one single solitary MP that gave a rats ass about wannabe pilots, I would be writing to them right now
Come to think of it, is there not some government department that deals with enforcing the laws of monopolies and protectionism, and can they investigate other government departments? Who was it that enacted the law change with regard to BT, so they could no longer have a monopoly on the price of telephone lines? Can we get them to investigate the legality of this situation?
The sheer breathtaking arrogance of an outfit, that can sit there and decree that a Boeing type rating issued by the manufacturer at the factory is not up to European standards of safety.
After all there are some really dodgy TRTOs out there in the non-European wilderness ... goodness me, the British couldn't possibly consider compromising their superior European safety standards by allowing their wannabes to go get their type ratings issued by someone like Flightsafety (the biggest training provider in the world) or Qantas (the airline with the best safety record in history) ... or United Airlines ... or Cathay Pacific
It is an outrageous law that has no conceivable safety basis whatsoever, and is costing UK / European wannabes millions and millions of unnecessary pounds a year in extortionately high sim charges
If I thought there was one single solitary MP that gave a rats ass about wannabe pilots, I would be writing to them right now
Come to think of it, is there not some government department that deals with enforcing the laws of monopolies and protectionism, and can they investigate other government departments? Who was it that enacted the law change with regard to BT, so they could no longer have a monopoly on the price of telephone lines? Can we get them to investigate the legality of this situation?
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Holland
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
arrowhead is 100% spot on. If you compare the syllabi of the US vs European TR's you will see a major difference in number of hours in the sim.On top of that there is the difference between a new level D sim vs the cheapest around: you get what you pay for.
If it was a ripp of as some people suggest then the operators of the sim should make a sh*t load of money. Well they don't....
So if you think that you compare apples with apples: go for the $8000 one!Why do you think that any cost concieus airline is not sending there crews there??
@lst. No reason to feel so sorry for yourselves because there are JAA approved TRTO's in all parts of the world. No protection there at all, that is all rubbish. If you want to train abroad the only thing te JAA (or FAA for that matter if you are a yank that wants totrain in Europe!!) wants is to approve the thing.
you just have to pay for it yourselves
If it was a ripp of as some people suggest then the operators of the sim should make a sh*t load of money. Well they don't....
So if you think that you compare apples with apples: go for the $8000 one!Why do you think that any cost concieus airline is not sending there crews there??
@lst. No reason to feel so sorry for yourselves because there are JAA approved TRTO's in all parts of the world. No protection there at all, that is all rubbish. If you want to train abroad the only thing te JAA (or FAA for that matter if you are a yank that wants totrain in Europe!!) wants is to approve the thing.
you just have to pay for it yourselves
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reason I started this topic, was that I was told the school in my example use the same instructors(Iberia pilots) for the training for the Mcc and the type rating on the same sim. But I guess they just get 2 different pays for which ever lesson they are doing.
Guess things are just more expensive here in Europe compared to other places, because we are all so rich....
Guess things are just more expensive here in Europe compared to other places, because we are all so rich....
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes the CAA presides over a system prescribed by the JAA that
is obstensively set up with the protection of the citizens of the
EU in mind
Of course as Luke has quite correctly stated this is really done
for the reasons of protectionism.
The whole cost of the JAA system is used to prop up a regime
of training that is well past its sell by date.
We used to get the 'because of the special weather in the UK argument...' - nobody believes that lie anymore. Now the excuse for each regulatory body would be - cos it is prescribed by JAA - ie an instant 'get out of jail free' card
Every change in licencing rule is preceded by the farce of 'consulting with the industry....' they of course want to maximise revenue and reduce competition.
Strange that they dont consult with pilots or passengers?
That would be cos they want to REDUCE costs...
is obstensively set up with the protection of the citizens of the
EU in mind
Of course as Luke has quite correctly stated this is really done
for the reasons of protectionism.
The whole cost of the JAA system is used to prop up a regime
of training that is well past its sell by date.
We used to get the 'because of the special weather in the UK argument...' - nobody believes that lie anymore. Now the excuse for each regulatory body would be - cos it is prescribed by JAA - ie an instant 'get out of jail free' card
Every change in licencing rule is preceded by the farce of 'consulting with the industry....' they of course want to maximise revenue and reduce competition.
Strange that they dont consult with pilots or passengers?
That would be cos they want to REDUCE costs...
