Applications before MCC
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Applications before MCC
2-3 Years ago, I purchased Clive Hughes - Guide To getting a Commercial Pilot Licence. At that time, the advise regarding an MCC was along the lines of 'Get one is you feel it will help you get an interview, but be warned you will probably have to do the companies MCC anyway'. I read this to mean it was possible to get your CV read and slide smoothly through the interview process before having to undertaking the course.
However, I get the impression that in the current climate, you really need to have the MCC on your CV before even applying.
Is this the case?
Would sending a CV out with merely the CPL/IR complete be a futile exercise (OK, many would say that would be the case even with the MCC)?
Be interested to hear views.... GM
Cheers
However, I get the impression that in the current climate, you really need to have the MCC on your CV before even applying.
Is this the case?
Would sending a CV out with merely the CPL/IR complete be a futile exercise (OK, many would say that would be the case even with the MCC)?
Be interested to hear views.... GM
Cheers
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GoldenMonkey,
MCC's seem a standard requirement these days to have on your CV.........
A friend of mine did what you are suggesting pre MCC. He sent out application letters even before his IR (!) and as soon as he finished the remainder of his IR and MCC he got himself into two hold pools within 2 weeks.
He was miles ahead of anyone else because when hiring began his name was known and he got called first. He is now flying jets.
I wished that I had sent out applications before I had finished. Build relationships as much as you can during your training...! He did very well don't you think?
Craggs
MCC's seem a standard requirement these days to have on your CV.........
A friend of mine did what you are suggesting pre MCC. He sent out application letters even before his IR (!) and as soon as he finished the remainder of his IR and MCC he got himself into two hold pools within 2 weeks.
He was miles ahead of anyone else because when hiring began his name was known and he got called first. He is now flying jets.
I wished that I had sent out applications before I had finished. Build relationships as much as you can during your training...! He did very well don't you think?
Craggs
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MCC
Some people may say this is a bad idea but;
I have put an MCC on my CV but not done it.
The reason? Financial mainly. If i get callled for interview, i gues that it would not be straight away. If i was asked do i have one; I will say it is booked imminent.
I understand that i am not the only one who is doing this.
In the current climate, I feel that this is not my main priority until the market changes a bit and I start getting interviews.
If someone wants to tell me this is a bad idea, please let me know
I have put an MCC on my CV but not done it.
The reason? Financial mainly. If i get callled for interview, i gues that it would not be straight away. If i was asked do i have one; I will say it is booked imminent.
I understand that i am not the only one who is doing this.
In the current climate, I feel that this is not my main priority until the market changes a bit and I start getting interviews.
If someone wants to tell me this is a bad idea, please let me know
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JTK...
I did the same thing........fortunately for me i got the call for an interview half way through my MCC.
I know of someone who got a job without an MCC and did their MCC in the interim whilst waiting to start their job.
Oh, and by the way, the market has already changed!! Theres a shed load of jobs out there if you know where to look!!!
R
I did the same thing........fortunately for me i got the call for an interview half way through my MCC.
I know of someone who got a job without an MCC and did their MCC in the interim whilst waiting to start their job.
Oh, and by the way, the market has already changed!! Theres a shed load of jobs out there if you know where to look!!!
R
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From reading between the lines here and there haven't added the MCC to the "Must Have" list yet. I am not at all convinced that it is a deciding factor in getting interview or not. The reason? The only people who reckon that candidates really must have one are FTOs!
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Sure, an MCC is not unimprtant, as many airlines don't want to do it with you. If you look beyond the the UK, they can be had for EUR1000, whereas one on a 737 would be twice that (use the search function).
Maybe you would want to do it in combination with renewing the IR? (I know, it defeats the purpose of the MCC, but it sure saves money.)
My first airline interview was 3 days after I called them and next day with a LCC. They would not have been happy could I not have shown the cert.
Maybe you would want to do it in combination with renewing the IR? (I know, it defeats the purpose of the MCC, but it sure saves money.)
My first airline interview was 3 days after I called them and next day with a LCC. They would not have been happy could I not have shown the cert.
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Thanks for your response people. I think I shall start sending out my CV. Not sure about fabricating an MCC mind. A part of me thinks that an airline receiving a series of evolving CV's from an applicant looks better than 5 copies of the same CV over 6 months (or whatever period).
HWD - interesting to hear your view:
"The only people who reckon that candidates really must have one are FTOs!"
I was of this opinion as well. However, I went to the Flyer gathering/convention in March 2005 and both Flybe and BACX stated that MCC was a pre-requisit to submitting an application.
Ah well, another decision to make and another stack of cash to spend!!
HWD - interesting to hear your view:
"The only people who reckon that candidates really must have one are FTOs!"
I was of this opinion as well. However, I went to the Flyer gathering/convention in March 2005 and both Flybe and BACX stated that MCC was a pre-requisit to submitting an application.
Ah well, another decision to make and another stack of cash to spend!!
Last edited by GoldenMonkey; 26th Apr 2005 at 09:56.
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Applying before you hold everything on your CV has its merits if it all works out.
However, don't overestimate an airlines ability to plan its hiring well in advance - Not at all uncommon to be asked if you can come for an interview within a few days (I was twice, didn't need the second one as I was employed with the first by then
)
Even if that happens it depends if you are happy by effectively lying to the employer (you have stated you have an MCC when you haven't - just because it is in writing and not verbal doesn't make it any different) who may well ask for production of said certificate at interview (again, mine did).
I was advised to do the same with my IR - many app forms ask for your date of passing and number of attempts. What if you state a first time pass, take the test the week after the interview and partial, with no re-test dates before your new type rating groundschool starts
.(also most employers will take a photocopy of your licence - whist confirming you are still current they may notice the dates....)
And although the market is picking up, I don't think (and I may well be wrong) there are many who run their own MCC nowadays, there are still enough wannbees out there who will pick up the cost so they don't have to. Quality of course is irrelevant to them (just a tick in a box), but you could use the time as pre-sim training (depending where you go and if you use a full-motion sim).
Bottom line is applying before you have everying that you have put on your CV may put you at the front of the queue (if only it was that fair), but your integrity may also be put in question with the employer of your dreams - and you don't get another chance at that first impression (cliche I know, but true).
However, don't overestimate an airlines ability to plan its hiring well in advance - Not at all uncommon to be asked if you can come for an interview within a few days (I was twice, didn't need the second one as I was employed with the first by then
)Even if that happens it depends if you are happy by effectively lying to the employer (you have stated you have an MCC when you haven't - just because it is in writing and not verbal doesn't make it any different) who may well ask for production of said certificate at interview (again, mine did).
I was advised to do the same with my IR - many app forms ask for your date of passing and number of attempts. What if you state a first time pass, take the test the week after the interview and partial, with no re-test dates before your new type rating groundschool starts
.(also most employers will take a photocopy of your licence - whist confirming you are still current they may notice the dates....)And although the market is picking up, I don't think (and I may well be wrong) there are many who run their own MCC nowadays, there are still enough wannbees out there who will pick up the cost so they don't have to. Quality of course is irrelevant to them (just a tick in a box), but you could use the time as pre-sim training (depending where you go and if you use a full-motion sim).
Bottom line is applying before you have everying that you have put on your CV may put you at the front of the queue (if only it was that fair), but your integrity may also be put in question with the employer of your dreams - and you don't get another chance at that first impression (cliche I know, but true).
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HWD - I'd disagree. It seems everyone requires an MCC now. It is a requirement to have one for a multi crew job, end of story. Looking at any job adverts around just now I haven't seen one which doesn't want one.
GM - Remember an airline receives scores of CV's a week. I don't think they will be interested in how you're CV evolves over 6 months. Indeed I would suggest (my opinion only so could be wrong) that if it doesn't meet with what they require it goes straight in the bin.
IMHO there's nothing wrong with putting it on the CV if it's booked. At least you will have it within the month, and you are making headway in the job search. However if it ain't booked I wouldn't. I know several people who were called for interview at a few days notice, as RP says. And if you turn up without a certificate you are going to look pretty bad.
Incidentally I still can't believe that there is no mention of it in the licence. Just looking at my certificate, and I could knock one up with any name on it in a metter if minutes on the PC!
GM - Remember an airline receives scores of CV's a week. I don't think they will be interested in how you're CV evolves over 6 months. Indeed I would suggest (my opinion only so could be wrong) that if it doesn't meet with what they require it goes straight in the bin.
IMHO there's nothing wrong with putting it on the CV if it's booked. At least you will have it within the month, and you are making headway in the job search. However if it ain't booked I wouldn't. I know several people who were called for interview at a few days notice, as RP says. And if you turn up without a certificate you are going to look pretty bad.
Incidentally I still can't believe that there is no mention of it in the licence. Just looking at my certificate, and I could knock one up with any name on it in a metter if minutes on the PC!
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I would echo Ropey's advice about the lead time on airline recruiting. Now that the market has significantly improved (if you've only just qualified then you probably have no idea how bad it was even just 6 months ago), some airlines, particularly the regionals, are losing pilots hand over fist. I have been called for interview and sim check with one such airline with only a matter of days notice each time. Don't assume you can squeeze in things like an MCC or even an IR reval/renewal in that time. Sod's Law is circumstances will conspire against you.
And then those that have been telling little porky pies to get that far will soon be found out as all your paperwork will be scrutinised at interview. Pilots may understand where you are coming from, but you can bet your bottom dollar the admin weenies won't. Pretty stupid way to lose out on a potentially golden opportunity and an easy way to make yourself a laughing stock in a very small industry.
That all said, I did recently hear of a guy whose personal circumstances suited the airline's particular needs and they recruited him without an MCC (in fact they paid for him to do it), and offered him the job even before he had a sim check. It's a funny old business at times.
And then those that have been telling little porky pies to get that far will soon be found out as all your paperwork will be scrutinised at interview. Pilots may understand where you are coming from, but you can bet your bottom dollar the admin weenies won't. Pretty stupid way to lose out on a potentially golden opportunity and an easy way to make yourself a laughing stock in a very small industry.
That all said, I did recently hear of a guy whose personal circumstances suited the airline's particular needs and they recruited him without an MCC (in fact they paid for him to do it), and offered him the job even before he had a sim check. It's a funny old business at times.
Also, don't forget that these days a you have to supply a long list of dates of what you were doing in the past to get an airport security pass issued.
Much of this information is checked. Therefore if you say that you had completed an MCC before such and such a date at such and such a place and the vetting company write to the school asking for confirmation and they reply that you were never there at that time then you are in big sh*t. Not just no job, but possible criminal proceedings and hence criminal record.
It is just not worth the risk telling porkies!
Much of this information is checked. Therefore if you say that you had completed an MCC before such and such a date at such and such a place and the vetting company write to the school asking for confirmation and they reply that you were never there at that time then you are in big sh*t. Not just no job, but possible criminal proceedings and hence criminal record.
It is just not worth the risk telling porkies!
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MCC
Good points.
I am the one who has it on my CV. But as someone said earlier, if i got some postive response from an airline, i would book one at the very least. Or do one before any interview.
Think i may look at that after i get the FI course out the way.
The airside pass thing. Not sure tahts relevant. If you are accounting for days, it's a very different thing to make that up on an appllication form that just putting on your CV.
A friend of mine got a interview at VLM without an MCC. She just had to do it before the selction process.
Again, not much continuity out there. And, more money to shell out.
I am the one who has it on my CV. But as someone said earlier, if i got some postive response from an airline, i would book one at the very least. Or do one before any interview.
Think i may look at that after i get the FI course out the way.
The airside pass thing. Not sure tahts relevant. If you are accounting for days, it's a very different thing to make that up on an appllication form that just putting on your CV.
A friend of mine got a interview at VLM without an MCC. She just had to do it before the selction process.
Again, not much continuity out there. And, more money to shell out.
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you think an airline will call you because you have an MCC on your CV....ah ah ah, wake up man, you are living in a dream world.
there are thousand pilots with an MCC (me included) who do not find a job . MCC or not MCC, will change nothing, except with no MCC in your CV, you keep your cash!
there are thousand pilots with an MCC (me included) who do not find a job . MCC or not MCC, will change nothing, except with no MCC in your CV, you keep your cash!
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Spaceman
If your comments are aimed at me:
I did not state that an airline would call me if i had an MCC on my CV. I was stating that it is better to show one than not. And if you have one booked, why not?
Please read nd understand a post before you retort.
And PLEASE, lighten up a bit as i can hear your arteries hardening from here.
If your comments are aimed at me:
I did not state that an airline would call me if i had an MCC on my CV. I was stating that it is better to show one than not. And if you have one booked, why not?
Please read nd understand a post before you retort.
And PLEASE, lighten up a bit as i can hear your arteries hardening from here.
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more you write on your cv, better it is for you.
an MCC is now a requirement to work for an airline. As it is done in 5 days, I would write it on my CV. if you have a call, just explain your MCC will be done in a couple of weeks.
I have an MCC, and no call after one year of intensive research all over europe and asia.I would suggest you to go directly for a type rating with an MCC included.
good luck!
an MCC is now a requirement to work for an airline. As it is done in 5 days, I would write it on my CV. if you have a call, just explain your MCC will be done in a couple of weeks.
I have an MCC, and no call after one year of intensive research all over europe and asia.I would suggest you to go directly for a type rating with an MCC included.
good luck!
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Quote:
"an MCC is now a requirement to work for an airline. As it is done in 5 days, I would write it on my CV. if you have a call, just explain your MCC will be done in a couple of weeks."
I really can't understand this logic.
What you are saying is lie on your CV and explain when you get found out...
Putting an MCC course on ones CV when you haven't even got a start date for the MCC never mind the certificate at the end of it is a lie and I'm sure airlines wouldn't look too favourably at that? If you can lie about an MCC course then what else have you lied about on your CV?
"an MCC is now a requirement to work for an airline. As it is done in 5 days, I would write it on my CV. if you have a call, just explain your MCC will be done in a couple of weeks."
I really can't understand this logic.
What you are saying is lie on your CV and explain when you get found out...
Putting an MCC course on ones CV when you haven't even got a start date for the MCC never mind the certificate at the end of it is a lie and I'm sure airlines wouldn't look too favourably at that? If you can lie about an MCC course then what else have you lied about on your CV?
