Funny/rude response from new airline
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From the other side
Just wanted to share an odd experience with you as an employer of low houred pilots. As most of you know, the minimum TT that will enable single crew ops on AOC is 700 under JAR, but possible to be 400 with some exemptions.
I got an email from a guy with under 400 hrs (well, not exactly a CV, but an outline of flying experience etc in the body of an email).
Then later I get a proper CV of the same guy. His hours were too low, so rushed for time I sent back a 1 line "400hrs, 100 ME required."
So, then I get an email back from this bloke criticising me for replying in a "most insulting, demeaning and lack-lustre email" when all I was doing was trying to avoid Pilot Spam.
Anyway, a couple of emails later it seems he thinks that "I'm an arrogant English T%$ss$r" and that my operation is just a flying club.
Now to be fair, its all seen as a bit of a laugh in the office that this guy made no effort whatsoever to check that we, as an organisation could employ him. Then gets abusive when we spend the same amount of time rejecting him as he spent researching us.
Come on guys, do us a favour, if you are going to spam us with applications that you haven't researched if we can actually employ you, don't burn your employment bridges by criticising our reply.
Oh, and by the way, I insist on anyone calling me an arrogant english t&*ser to have at least 500 hrs total and an MCC, its in my contract
Phil
I got an email from a guy with under 400 hrs (well, not exactly a CV, but an outline of flying experience etc in the body of an email).
Then later I get a proper CV of the same guy. His hours were too low, so rushed for time I sent back a 1 line "400hrs, 100 ME required."
So, then I get an email back from this bloke criticising me for replying in a "most insulting, demeaning and lack-lustre email" when all I was doing was trying to avoid Pilot Spam.
Anyway, a couple of emails later it seems he thinks that "I'm an arrogant English T%$ss$r" and that my operation is just a flying club.
Now to be fair, its all seen as a bit of a laugh in the office that this guy made no effort whatsoever to check that we, as an organisation could employ him. Then gets abusive when we spend the same amount of time rejecting him as he spent researching us.
Come on guys, do us a favour, if you are going to spam us with applications that you haven't researched if we can actually employ you, don't burn your employment bridges by criticising our reply.
Oh, and by the way, I insist on anyone calling me an arrogant english t&*ser to have at least 500 hrs total and an MCC, its in my contract
Phil
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Phil
It just goes to show that if somebody wants to be an ar$eh01e to you because they've had a bad day or maybe by default, it doesn't matter which side of the fence they are on. It is a sad fact that in an industry characterised by professionalism we still have to deal with an accute lack of it at all levels now and then, still it is best to laugh about it.
It would be interesting to see the comms posted if you still have them (obviously censoring the names). Go on, share the experience for the sake of amusement
Mike
It would be interesting to see the comms posted if you still have them (obviously censoring the names). Go on, share the experience for the sake of amusement
Mike
Last edited by mikepops; 23rd Feb 2005 at 14:24.
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I cannot believe this thread is still going. It reminds me of that one a few weeks back about "what to wear to interview".
That started in good humour and then descended into a battle of insults and W80 slinging.
Although, this one being better humoured is far more enjoyable to read.
All i was going to say is, how encouraging it is to get responses. Even in the less than wanted form.
I have sent 95 CV's in the past 2 weeks and recieved 2 responses. Yes that right, 2 BIG, please FOX OSCAR, no offence Mr Kirk. Maybe airlines are thinking, let not be too rude just in case we need him/her one day....OK, maybe not.
I spoke to a lady at an airline that has been getting alot of coverage on numerous threads, and asked her
'what do i have to do to stand out on my CV'.
She replied: 'nothing. and don't try and send me flowers or chocolates, as your CV will stay exactly were is is under A'.
Not sure if the 'A' was for the first initial of my surname or 'Absolutely no chance'.
But in relection to this thread she was very pleasant.
Sorry, not sure of the point i was trying to make. I am in an internet cafe in rural ireland and probably wanted to 'reach out' to all you people out there.
That started in good humour and then descended into a battle of insults and W80 slinging.
Although, this one being better humoured is far more enjoyable to read.
All i was going to say is, how encouraging it is to get responses. Even in the less than wanted form.
I have sent 95 CV's in the past 2 weeks and recieved 2 responses. Yes that right, 2 BIG, please FOX OSCAR, no offence Mr Kirk. Maybe airlines are thinking, let not be too rude just in case we need him/her one day....OK, maybe not.
I spoke to a lady at an airline that has been getting alot of coverage on numerous threads, and asked her
'what do i have to do to stand out on my CV'.
She replied: 'nothing. and don't try and send me flowers or chocolates, as your CV will stay exactly were is is under A'.
Not sure if the 'A' was for the first initial of my surname or 'Absolutely no chance'.
But in relection to this thread she was very pleasant.
Sorry, not sure of the point i was trying to make. I am in an internet cafe in rural ireland and probably wanted to 'reach out' to all you people out there.
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I know for a fact that the operator concerned had not filled all positions in the time frame suggested earlier in this thread and as far as I'm aware they are still considering applications from those who have the required qualifications. Quality of hours I know is important (ie multi/turbine/commercial experience etc etc) and higher hours I believe is an advantage also. This should weed out some of the 200hr 'just qualified' competition that seems to be so prevalent with other operators that recruit via HR only! Those who have applications outstanding with this company or any other for that matter good luck with it all, don't let the frustration you feel due to lack of responses tarnish the way people percieve you. Take care.............
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Hi,
I have come into this discussion fairly late but thought it might be worth mentioning a little about lead times on magazine advertising. Having worked in media, infact for a flying magazine, you have to appreciate that the work is done well in advance of the magazine sale.
For example, the March issue of "Joe bloggs flight magazine" will hit the shelves in February. The sales staff selling the ad space for that magazine will have Closed all selling in January and the copy of the customers ad would be required more than likely early to mid Jan. So imagine it from the Companys perspective, on January 5th they say yes please put our ad in the March issue, they supply the copy of the ad by the 7th and the magazine goes on sale on perhaps the 20th of February. Its no wonder these positions get filled before then! I hope to become a commercial Pilot some day and the one thing I have learnt in life is that success is all about networking and knowing the right people. And rubbing anyone up the wrong way is a definate no no.
Regards
FLy
Best of luck to all of you
I have come into this discussion fairly late but thought it might be worth mentioning a little about lead times on magazine advertising. Having worked in media, infact for a flying magazine, you have to appreciate that the work is done well in advance of the magazine sale.
For example, the March issue of "Joe bloggs flight magazine" will hit the shelves in February. The sales staff selling the ad space for that magazine will have Closed all selling in January and the copy of the customers ad would be required more than likely early to mid Jan. So imagine it from the Companys perspective, on January 5th they say yes please put our ad in the March issue, they supply the copy of the ad by the 7th and the magazine goes on sale on perhaps the 20th of February. Its no wonder these positions get filled before then! I hope to become a commercial Pilot some day and the one thing I have learnt in life is that success is all about networking and knowing the right people. And rubbing anyone up the wrong way is a definate no no.
Regards
FLy
Best of luck to all of you
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I'll tell you a tale about a friend of mine I've known since our time together at school.
It's got nothing to do with being a pilot but it is pertinent.
To keep it short, he is from a very rich family. As a proud Scotsman he always had a passion for Whisky, single malts. He didn't want to bother with University so he applied to hundreds of distilleries as an apprentice and was turned down by most. But one in particular was very rude to him during an interview. (He suffered from very bad skin and had terrible sores on his face in his late teens). The company manager actually commented on this during the interview and when he left the room the panel of interviewers roared with laughter.
Anyway, he eventually got a job and was very successful. Ten years later, at just thirty, his acne long since cleared, he became a manager. Two years after that he successfully bid for the company in a management take over.
Under his ownership the company went from strength to strength supplying many specialist retailers around the world and selling to enthusiasts on the internet. His company expanded and he now owns six specialist whisky distilleries.
Two years ago he heard that the company where he had that disastrous interview was in financial trouble. So he acquired it!
Guess what.
The manager who joked about him still worked there.
He didn't sack him.
Instead he put a very bright twenty three year old junior in charge of production One with spots !
So don't give up folks. The first ones now will later be last.
It's got nothing to do with being a pilot but it is pertinent.
To keep it short, he is from a very rich family. As a proud Scotsman he always had a passion for Whisky, single malts. He didn't want to bother with University so he applied to hundreds of distilleries as an apprentice and was turned down by most. But one in particular was very rude to him during an interview. (He suffered from very bad skin and had terrible sores on his face in his late teens). The company manager actually commented on this during the interview and when he left the room the panel of interviewers roared with laughter.
Anyway, he eventually got a job and was very successful. Ten years later, at just thirty, his acne long since cleared, he became a manager. Two years after that he successfully bid for the company in a management take over.
Under his ownership the company went from strength to strength supplying many specialist retailers around the world and selling to enthusiasts on the internet. His company expanded and he now owns six specialist whisky distilleries.
Two years ago he heard that the company where he had that disastrous interview was in financial trouble. So he acquired it!
Guess what.
The manager who joked about him still worked there.
He didn't sack him.
Instead he put a very bright twenty three year old junior in charge of production
One with spots !So don't give up folks. The first ones now will later be last.
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Unfortunately a lot of these recruitment people suffer with delusions of grandure - you just need to pucker up to get in to the company and then you can tell them to foxtrot oscar.
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one more thing..
..and then it's time to let go
I work for an airline company since about 7 years. PLEASE always remember!!! You will always meet twice. Do not - ever - piss off prospective employers.. They will never leave the business, just change companies..
Be nice! It's worth it.
I work for an airline company since about 7 years. PLEASE always remember!!! You will always meet twice. Do not - ever - piss off prospective employers.. They will never leave the business, just change companies..
Be nice! It's worth it.
Last edited by wingsoverwater; 27th Feb 2005 at 11:56.
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In one position I held, I had to sift through up to 200 CVs per day.
As much as I tried to be informative as to why I'd turned them down, every CV is different and so each one required more individual response. With the pressure of frantically trying to find the right person, and trying to acknowledge every one, I found myself working up to 12 hours a day.
As far as advertising a vacancy is concerned, I advertised in various publications, for which there is a deadline for inclusion in the next issue. An ad can be submitted on a Friday, printed on Tuesday, on the shelves tuesday lunchtime. By the time you get your copy on Tuesday afternoon, hundreds of people already know about it. It only takes a company to say " no vacancies at the moment but call back next week as we have something in the pipeline". That person tells a few friends who tells a few friends, etc and CVs come pouring in. Usually most of which are underqualified, the qualified ones get called and snapped up immediately.
As many have already said, be very careful how you approach companies and agencies. With agencies, DO NOT mailshot your CV to 20 agencies, send them individually. In most cases they are up against other agencies to get one of their candidates employed first. If they think you're not fussy, or have possibly already been sent to a prospective employer by another agency, they wont bother.
Also, recruiters and employers move around. I sent a CV to a company I was personally applying for and she was rude to me in the interview. Three years later, I interviewed her for a vacancy I had!! Don't call us.......
Aviation is a very small world.
As much as I tried to be informative as to why I'd turned them down, every CV is different and so each one required more individual response. With the pressure of frantically trying to find the right person, and trying to acknowledge every one, I found myself working up to 12 hours a day.
As far as advertising a vacancy is concerned, I advertised in various publications, for which there is a deadline for inclusion in the next issue. An ad can be submitted on a Friday, printed on Tuesday, on the shelves tuesday lunchtime. By the time you get your copy on Tuesday afternoon, hundreds of people already know about it. It only takes a company to say " no vacancies at the moment but call back next week as we have something in the pipeline". That person tells a few friends who tells a few friends, etc and CVs come pouring in. Usually most of which are underqualified, the qualified ones get called and snapped up immediately.
As many have already said, be very careful how you approach companies and agencies. With agencies, DO NOT mailshot your CV to 20 agencies, send them individually. In most cases they are up against other agencies to get one of their candidates employed first. If they think you're not fussy, or have possibly already been sent to a prospective employer by another agency, they wont bother.
Also, recruiters and employers move around. I sent a CV to a company I was personally applying for and she was rude to me in the interview. Three years later, I interviewed her for a vacancy I had!! Don't call us.......
Aviation is a very small world.
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Mr E Pilot, great story!
It is true that the aviation industry is a very small world. What is also true is that what goes around inevitably comes around in one form or another!
mike
It is true that the aviation industry is a very small world. What is also true is that what goes around inevitably comes around in one form or another!
mike
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Mikepops,
Just a bit of advice as you obviously dont have a great deal of experience in the funny old world of aviation.
I applied to the same company a few mths back and got a similar reply yo yours, however I didnt send back any stupid provoking reply, just a simple " Thank you Mr Seymour for your time and consideration, and look forward to hearing from you in the future.
Guess what mate, I got a telephone call and an interveiw.
Im not rubbing salt in the wound to you, just passing on some experience.
Good luck in the future
J S
Just a bit of advice as you obviously dont have a great deal of experience in the funny old world of aviation.
I applied to the same company a few mths back and got a similar reply yo yours, however I didnt send back any stupid provoking reply, just a simple " Thank you Mr Seymour for your time and consideration, and look forward to hearing from you in the future.
Guess what mate, I got a telephone call and an interveiw.
Im not rubbing salt in the wound to you, just passing on some experience.
Good luck in the future
J S
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Jem Star,
My reply was not stupid, just wanted to make sure that there had not been a mistake, because at that time it seemed really strange to me that the positions would become filled the same day as advertised. Since then I came to realise the timing issues related to vacancy advertisement, but at the time my reply was a polite request for a clarification. If somebody had such a bad day as to find that offensive, it was not my fault, but I am glad that it did shed some light on the type of person I would have been working for, and belive me I have no regrets.
Anyway, you have my sincere congratulations, good luck with the interview, hope you get the job and enjoy it.
Regards
My reply was not stupid, just wanted to make sure that there had not been a mistake, because at that time it seemed really strange to me that the positions would become filled the same day as advertised. Since then I came to realise the timing issues related to vacancy advertisement, but at the time my reply was a polite request for a clarification. If somebody had such a bad day as to find that offensive, it was not my fault, but I am glad that it did shed some light on the type of person I would have been working for, and belive me I have no regrets.
Anyway, you have my sincere congratulations, good luck with the interview, hope you get the job and enjoy it.
Regards
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I was in the Isle of Man today and the apron was like an aircraft graveyard with all the leased aircraft that Euromanx are using. 2 Denim F50s (could of been more) 1 Farnair Europe ATR-42 and 1 Atlantic ATR-42 as well. Still have not seen this RJ - where is it at the moment??
Also read with interest that Euromanx advertised in Flight for Saab 2000 rated crews. I heard they have not actually got the aircraft from Swiss as yet.
Nothing new by the looks of things! I hope that this news of expansion is not going to be a load of false promises!
Also read with interest that Euromanx advertised in Flight for Saab 2000 rated crews. I heard they have not actually got the aircraft from Swiss as yet.
Nothing new by the looks of things! I hope that this news of expansion is not going to be a load of false promises!
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Smug
Thought I would share a story with you from my days of job hunting.
One fine day a mate of mine high up on the 146 for Flybe rang me and told me my CV had gone in front of the powers that be and I was going to be called for interview shortly.
I was excited but at the same time concerned because I had just put down a shed load of money to do an FI rating which would be pointless if I was to subsequently get the job.
So I rang our man at Flybe to verify if this gen was correct and when an interview was likely to be conducted.
His response (Sounding V irritable) :
“Er yes I have received your application for the Dash 8’…….long pause to think and get more wound up….. ‘but you ringing me up is wasting my time. It delays processing all these applications and more importantly those of more suitable candidates.”
I politely apologised for wasting his time and rung off. But I was fuming. W****R! That’s his job to deal with cases like that for goodness sake.
A few days later I received a letter, which someone had taken to time to compose, address, stamp and post out. A bit longer than a two minute phone call I shouldn’t wonder.
It basically read….’Please don’t ring us again in relation to any aspect of your application, it delays the processing of applications and disadvantages other candidates’.
And that was it, not even a ‘Thanks you for your continued interest in…..’
Needless to say there was no interview, but I kept the letter as an example of the sort of company I never want to work for.
But I can laugh about it now because I know that recruitment officer is up to his eye balls in CVs and pesky phone calls again because over thirty of his Dash 8 boys are coming to Fly Airbus for the company I currently work for…...(Who are a great company)
One fine day a mate of mine high up on the 146 for Flybe rang me and told me my CV had gone in front of the powers that be and I was going to be called for interview shortly.
I was excited but at the same time concerned because I had just put down a shed load of money to do an FI rating which would be pointless if I was to subsequently get the job.
So I rang our man at Flybe to verify if this gen was correct and when an interview was likely to be conducted.
His response (Sounding V irritable) :
“Er yes I have received your application for the Dash 8’…….long pause to think and get more wound up….. ‘but you ringing me up is wasting my time. It delays processing all these applications and more importantly those of more suitable candidates.”
I politely apologised for wasting his time and rung off. But I was fuming. W****R! That’s his job to deal with cases like that for goodness sake.
A few days later I received a letter, which someone had taken to time to compose, address, stamp and post out. A bit longer than a two minute phone call I shouldn’t wonder.
It basically read….’Please don’t ring us again in relation to any aspect of your application, it delays the processing of applications and disadvantages other candidates’.
And that was it, not even a ‘Thanks you for your continued interest in…..’
Needless to say there was no interview, but I kept the letter as an example of the sort of company I never want to work for.
But I can laugh about it now because I know that recruitment officer is up to his eye balls in CVs and pesky phone calls again because over thirty of his Dash 8 boys are coming to Fly Airbus for the company I currently work for…...(Who are a great company)
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Mate of mine got a flying job with Club328 (along with outstanding qualifications of course) by being good mates with the deputy chief pilot. So not only do you have to think about all the other cvs that have been sent but also the number of people who get in through networking.
As for Flybe, well that man in recruitment Big Don is a complete liar! He deserves all the problems he is having right now. In fact, I may give him a ring tomorrow to ask him how many of their pilots resigned in March!
As for Flybe, well that man in recruitment Big Don is a complete liar! He deserves all the problems he is having right now. In fact, I may give him a ring tomorrow to ask him how many of their pilots resigned in March!
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Hello All
Does anyone know if Euromanx will be taking on newly qualified guys or will it only be type rated with experience.
Anyone had a reply to the online application yet ?
Howski
Does anyone know if Euromanx will be taking on newly qualified guys or will it only be type rated with experience.
Anyone had a reply to the online application yet ?
Howski
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New funny response!
I recently received a response letter from Aero Flight (for which I am immensely grateful!). The logo on the headed paper is in English, it sais: "Aero Flight - your friendly airline", however the letter is written in German!... how very friendly!