Ryanair Assessment Scam?
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: essex
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When coming into the aviation business you have several options:
Work as an instructor/ GA and build hours (very low wages).
Work for a small turbo prop outfit and and gain experience (also low wages)
Pay money up front and try for a place with Ryanair.
Do you think the other major airlines are doing you a favour by not offering this option? They just wont take you.
If you think that £17880 in your first year is bad try instructing. I have been with the company 3 years now and I think they are great. Good roster patterns and I earned over £20000 sector pay last year. That’s after tax and on top of my salary. When I joined I didn’t have to pay for a rating I know. Maybe in a few years if the demand out strips the supply you wont have to again.
One piece of advice if you decide to pay for a rating and join a company without having spent years building hours elsewhere don’t moan about what you have done. I am sick to death of new cadets saying but I am £60000 in dept. Its your choice. If its your cash don’t make the choice lightly and if its not you are very lucky. Give a pilot a gold bar and it would be the wrong shape.
Work as an instructor/ GA and build hours (very low wages).
Work for a small turbo prop outfit and and gain experience (also low wages)
Pay money up front and try for a place with Ryanair.
Do you think the other major airlines are doing you a favour by not offering this option? They just wont take you.
If you think that £17880 in your first year is bad try instructing. I have been with the company 3 years now and I think they are great. Good roster patterns and I earned over £20000 sector pay last year. That’s after tax and on top of my salary. When I joined I didn’t have to pay for a rating I know. Maybe in a few years if the demand out strips the supply you wont have to again.
One piece of advice if you decide to pay for a rating and join a company without having spent years building hours elsewhere don’t moan about what you have done. I am sick to death of new cadets saying but I am £60000 in dept. Its your choice. If its your cash don’t make the choice lightly and if its not you are very lucky. Give a pilot a gold bar and it would be the wrong shape.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Essexboy
I was interested to see your summary of the options available to 'low hour' pilots. I presume, when you say "Pay money up front and try for a place with Ryanair.", you are talking about shelling out for the type rating. As a low hour pilot, what I am interested in knowing is....
Say I take one of the other options initially, (eg "Work for a small turbo prop outfit and gain experience"). At the end of this period (2 years say) would I still be a position where I'd have to pay for my Jet type rating and go through all the well publicised hoops?
I know you can't say what the market will dictate in 2 years time, but say for today's experienced turbo prop pilots that want to break into the Jet world, do they have to go down the same avenue as the low hour boys and girls?
Cheers
GoldenMonkey
I was interested to see your summary of the options available to 'low hour' pilots. I presume, when you say "Pay money up front and try for a place with Ryanair.", you are talking about shelling out for the type rating. As a low hour pilot, what I am interested in knowing is....
Say I take one of the other options initially, (eg "Work for a small turbo prop outfit and gain experience"). At the end of this period (2 years say) would I still be a position where I'd have to pay for my Jet type rating and go through all the well publicised hoops?
I know you can't say what the market will dictate in 2 years time, but say for today's experienced turbo prop pilots that want to break into the Jet world, do they have to go down the same avenue as the low hour boys and girls?
Cheers
GoldenMonkey
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Thanks duece, I think you're right re CRM but if the assessors are doing the assessment on a marking system based on tollerance flying (speed, tracking and height) that goes very much against a low hour "inadequate" (see Ms. Turret and I'm still laughing!) as opposed to showing a marked improvement method??
Anyway onward and upward I'm off to find another shiny aeroplane operator... and you never know I might even get paid after paying for my type rating
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!
Anyway onward and upward I'm off to find another shiny aeroplane operator... and you never know I might even get paid after paying for my type rating
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Yosser
Well I dont know for sure what they are actually looking at, but a friend of mine who are doing those checks, said that they want to see that you can fly an airplane, and they are not expecting you to be a 732 god. However there might be other simdudes who thinks diffrent.
Anyway, if you ace your crm and airmanship, then just show off some reasonable flying and you´ve passed.
ooh BTW, I almost turned the wrong way in a holding, but I passed. Now that wasent FR but I´d say its about the same.
cheers
Well I dont know for sure what they are actually looking at, but a friend of mine who are doing those checks, said that they want to see that you can fly an airplane, and they are not expecting you to be a 732 god. However there might be other simdudes who thinks diffrent.
Anyway, if you ace your crm and airmanship, then just show off some reasonable flying and you´ve passed.
ooh BTW, I almost turned the wrong way in a holding, but I passed. Now that wasent FR but I´d say its about the same.
cheers
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I was also in EMA last week, I was not called for a cadet position by the school but for an FO job trough Brookfield and it ended as an cadet non negociable offer....
I failed the sim because, I was not any more concentrated in what I was doing, I flew the sim only because I paid for it.
I am flying a heavy modern turboprop (not in Europe) for much better conditions than those offered by Ryanair.
I was not a fan of Ryanair, I spent some money to see it from inside (I will not tell "I lost some money", because I have learned a lot during this British day), and I have no regrets, as I know now that this is not the airline I would like to work for.
There are good jobs around, if you take all the + and all the -, Ryanair is may be not the best, and will it last? Looking more in depth at it I have some doubts.
I failed the sim because, I was not any more concentrated in what I was doing, I flew the sim only because I paid for it.
I am flying a heavy modern turboprop (not in Europe) for much better conditions than those offered by Ryanair.
I was not a fan of Ryanair, I spent some money to see it from inside (I will not tell "I lost some money", because I have learned a lot during this British day), and I have no regrets, as I know now that this is not the airline I would like to work for.
There are good jobs around, if you take all the + and all the -, Ryanair is may be not the best, and will it last? Looking more in depth at it I have some doubts.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Golden Monkey,
All I am saying is that the more experience you have the more opportunities there are available to you. Who knows in 2 years time (after flying turbo props as you suggest) you may have to still pay for a type rating. You may even still have to pay for a sim check but the chances are you are going to be far more likely to pass it. Half the guys applying to Ryanair think that they are buying a job when they pay for a sim check.
We wont take on any crap pilot just cos he’s paid for a check ride or even a type rating. No one will. You pay your money and take your chances. Or in many cases daddy will.
All I am saying is that the more experience you have the more opportunities there are available to you. Who knows in 2 years time (after flying turbo props as you suggest) you may have to still pay for a type rating. You may even still have to pay for a sim check but the chances are you are going to be far more likely to pass it. Half the guys applying to Ryanair think that they are buying a job when they pay for a sim check.
We wont take on any crap pilot just cos he’s paid for a check ride or even a type rating. No one will. You pay your money and take your chances. Or in many cases daddy will.
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Admit it Bluevolta you failed the SIM because you can't fly to the required level not because you decided not to concentrate. Some of you guys really need to listen to yourselves!!!
For the record guys...I passed!!!
For the record guys...I passed!!!
Join Date: Jul 1999
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CRM!!?
Lasloflyer,
Well done for passing. I'm sure nobody is as happy for you, as you are yourself. Perhaps you might have taken a more humble approach toward those who were not as fortunate on the day.
It's all good and well to be excited and pleased at passing this hurdle, but you now have many more challenges ahead of you. One of them will be to gain the respect of your colleagues.
Old Chinese proverb say; "Don't upset people on the way up, as you may need their help on the way down."
Good luck - and tread carefully! Take it from someone who knows.
ETR
PS; For the record... just listen to yourself!
Well done for passing. I'm sure nobody is as happy for you, as you are yourself. Perhaps you might have taken a more humble approach toward those who were not as fortunate on the day.
It's all good and well to be excited and pleased at passing this hurdle, but you now have many more challenges ahead of you. One of them will be to gain the respect of your colleagues.
Old Chinese proverb say; "Don't upset people on the way up, as you may need their help on the way down."
Good luck - and tread carefully! Take it from someone who knows.
ETR
PS; For the record... just listen to yourself!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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lasloflyer, congratulations for going to FR,
You do not know me, you do not know how I react, before judging someone, or his ability or not to fly correctly you have to know a little bit the person.
If you read correctly my post I didn't say that I choose deliberately to fail, I was irritated by the offer and even during the interview with the HR guy I wanted to say stop. So after that I was even not correcting my mystakes during the last minutes of the sim, and my only concern was to catch my plane and not spending an other expensive night in a hotel for nothing.
For me flying is fun, encountering different people, the best one and the worst one...
And FR is not for me, I am will not match in their organization, that's it. We all can adapt to a certain extent but we all have limits of what is acceptable
Wish you all the best for the guys with FR, and keep EricTheRed proverb in mind, it can turn usefull.
cheers
You do not know me, you do not know how I react, before judging someone, or his ability or not to fly correctly you have to know a little bit the person.
If you read correctly my post I didn't say that I choose deliberately to fail, I was irritated by the offer and even during the interview with the HR guy I wanted to say stop. So after that I was even not correcting my mystakes during the last minutes of the sim, and my only concern was to catch my plane and not spending an other expensive night in a hotel for nothing.
For me flying is fun, encountering different people, the best one and the worst one...
And FR is not for me, I am will not match in their organization, that's it. We all can adapt to a certain extent but we all have limits of what is acceptable
Wish you all the best for the guys with FR, and keep EricTheRed proverb in mind, it can turn usefull.
cheers
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I have left FR a short while ago.
And I thank God for letting me working in that other place and not to have to live up to this sh!te airline anymore. I simply could not stand that bullish atmosphere. I finally feel happy going to work and being a member of my new airline.
If you're there : LEAVE ! you'll understand why I'm saying that when you're some place else.
If you're not there : NEVER APPLY ! You'll understadn my word when you're there.
And I thank God for letting me working in that other place and not to have to live up to this sh!te airline anymore. I simply could not stand that bullish atmosphere. I finally feel happy going to work and being a member of my new airline.
If you're there : LEAVE ! you'll understand why I'm saying that when you're some place else.
If you're not there : NEVER APPLY ! You'll understadn my word when you're there.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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There is also a work ethic in Ryanair that people should be aware of. You might very well do a good tech interview and fly a good sim check but will you get on with the guy in the left seat for 6-7hours a day? This is a question asked of a great many potential new first officers applying for RYR and indeed other carriers throughout Europe.
So you have to:
1. Have a good scan
2. Display some CRM skills
3. Handle the aircraft in a reasonable fashion and
4. Give the check instructor the impression that you will be pleasant to deal with in a working environment.
Your scan and handling can be improved on with training but your personality cannot!
So you have to:
1. Have a good scan
2. Display some CRM skills
3. Handle the aircraft in a reasonable fashion and
4. Give the check instructor the impression that you will be pleasant to deal with in a working environment.
Your scan and handling can be improved on with training but your personality cannot!
