Exodus at FlyBE
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Thanks flybe.com! Won't be too difficult to work out who I am now!
And I'm afraid you're last comment is totally true! When I first joined I kept my head down and accepted what I was told to do... I was quiet and careful of what I said....
NOW, However, is a totally different story as many will testify! You can't shut me up!
(Although when things are going smoothly it's mainly to do with who's sleeping with who and what happened on the tv last night!).
I am not doubting that this offer is excellent for the new guys. Anyone in their shoes would be happy to accept such a great, and cheap, offer. It's just a shame that us loyal staff are being shafted because the management got it so so so so so so so wrong.
And I'm afraid you're last comment is totally true! When I first joined I kept my head down and accepted what I was told to do... I was quiet and careful of what I said....
NOW, However, is a totally different story as many will testify! You can't shut me up!
(Although when things are going smoothly it's mainly to do with who's sleeping with who and what happened on the tv last night!).I am not doubting that this offer is excellent for the new guys. Anyone in their shoes would be happy to accept such a great, and cheap, offer. It's just a shame that us loyal staff are being shafted because the management got it so so so so so so so wrong.
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Confused
I'd love to know what Flybe are looking for. I had an interview and sim check recently.
Got told yesterday I was unsuccessful with my sim check, which I thought went OK, albeit I lost the glideslope on the ILS at the end.
If they were expecting me to do an IRT standard approach in a 146 which I've never flown before,with no practice, then I'll accept I wasn't good enough.
I'm approaching 34, got 1500hrs (over 1000p1), all of which is public transport, not instructing, 450 turbine, current on EMB110, CMRI and recommended for early command with previous company.
I was told by a few people that unless I really ****** up on the sim, then I should be OK.
SO, With the amount of pilots that the company are looking for, is the management telling me that the guys with zero experience and 250 hrs, really a better bet than me? Maybe they flew a perfect ILS on a 4 engined jet, when the biggest a/c they've flown is a seneca, if so, then I salute them.
When I ask why I'd failed, I got told there was nothing wrong with what I did, I just needed to do more flying!!!!!
If the above starts to sound a little bitter, then its not meant to, but I'm soooo angry and even more amazed!
Good luck to those who got through.
Cheers
JF
Got told yesterday I was unsuccessful with my sim check, which I thought went OK, albeit I lost the glideslope on the ILS at the end.
If they were expecting me to do an IRT standard approach in a 146 which I've never flown before,with no practice, then I'll accept I wasn't good enough.
I'm approaching 34, got 1500hrs (over 1000p1), all of which is public transport, not instructing, 450 turbine, current on EMB110, CMRI and recommended for early command with previous company.
I was told by a few people that unless I really ****** up on the sim, then I should be OK.
SO, With the amount of pilots that the company are looking for, is the management telling me that the guys with zero experience and 250 hrs, really a better bet than me? Maybe they flew a perfect ILS on a 4 engined jet, when the biggest a/c they've flown is a seneca, if so, then I salute them.
When I ask why I'd failed, I got told there was nothing wrong with what I did, I just needed to do more flying!!!!!
If the above starts to sound a little bitter, then its not meant to, but I'm soooo angry and even more amazed!
Good luck to those who got through.
Cheers
JF
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JF
My commiserations. Personally I can't understand what the management are doing. I know plenty of decent pilots who would fit right in in this company, work hard etc etc. And none of them have even been given an interview.
I have to thank FlyBE for giving me my first job when I was a 200hr-er. Although I've seen lots in the same position as me, I have absolutely no idea why they aren't taking on more experienced guys like yourself.
One can only wonder.....
My commiserations. Personally I can't understand what the management are doing. I know plenty of decent pilots who would fit right in in this company, work hard etc etc. And none of them have even been given an interview.
I have to thank FlyBE for giving me my first job when I was a 200hr-er. Although I've seen lots in the same position as me, I have absolutely no idea why they aren't taking on more experienced guys like yourself.
One can only wonder.....
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Well here's an update....
New guys in EXT are kicking up a stink because they're not being paid the jet salary..... And some have already adopted a certain 'look at me' attitude within the first few days...
This comes from a Capt who has seen them himself and obviously isn't affected by current situations and therefore not biased like a current FO might be.....
New guys in EXT are kicking up a stink because they're not being paid the jet salary..... And some have already adopted a certain 'look at me' attitude within the first few days...
This comes from a Capt who has seen them himself and obviously isn't affected by current situations and therefore not biased like a current FO might be.....
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Yes, have heard the same story myself today. Strutting around Exeter like mini Tom Cruises!!
er82 - you could be 1 of 2 that come to mind. 1 was at Hammond House recently.
Jockflyer - I checked my PMs today, saw your previous messages, and was wondering how you got on, what a shame. The 146 TRIs & TREs are excellent, so you can be sure that the sim assessment was fair. However, you can never really be sure what's been discussed behind the scenes. The DHC8 training programme at the moment is chocka, so although you're ideally placed to fill a Scottish-based DHC8 slot, it might be the case that they simply can't get you on a course. However, you would hope that if this was the case, the holding pool would be used. As I said in my earlier post, they can get away with messing the inexperienced guys around a lot more easily than someone with your experience, so it might even have been this that led to your rejection. Who ever really knows what criteria our selection and assessment teams are being told to assess by those above?
er82 - you could be 1 of 2 that come to mind. 1 was at Hammond House recently.
Jockflyer - I checked my PMs today, saw your previous messages, and was wondering how you got on, what a shame. The 146 TRIs & TREs are excellent, so you can be sure that the sim assessment was fair. However, you can never really be sure what's been discussed behind the scenes. The DHC8 training programme at the moment is chocka, so although you're ideally placed to fill a Scottish-based DHC8 slot, it might be the case that they simply can't get you on a course. However, you would hope that if this was the case, the holding pool would be used. As I said in my earlier post, they can get away with messing the inexperienced guys around a lot more easily than someone with your experience, so it might even have been this that led to your rejection. Who ever really knows what criteria our selection and assessment teams are being told to assess by those above?
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Flybe.com - I had an hour or so in the procedural 146 sim with a guy called Stewart Burns, who is apparently the ex flybe fleet manager. The sim was pretty useless for what I wanted it for, since you couldn't hand fly it. Stewart was very good though, and he said that if it was him, based on what he'd seen of me, then he'd give me a job, and that I would have no problems.
It was Eddie Danks who did the sim check a couple of hours later.
After the sim, when saying goodbye, Eddie winked at me, gave me a thumbs up, and said he'd be seeing me again. So you can imagine my surprise when I got bad news.
I am obvioulsy bias, but I cannot believe that anything I did was soooo bad that he thought that I wasn't even worth putting in the holding pool. Also, I had intimated that I would be prepared to move wherever they wanted to base me.
At the end of the day though, Flybe pay the wages and can pick who they like. Just so happens on this occassion they got it wrong (IMHO).
Fortunately, I've had other offers of freelance work, and while not as good as the flybe position, it will at least keep my flying.
Cheers
JF
It was Eddie Danks who did the sim check a couple of hours later.
After the sim, when saying goodbye, Eddie winked at me, gave me a thumbs up, and said he'd be seeing me again. So you can imagine my surprise when I got bad news.
I am obvioulsy bias, but I cannot believe that anything I did was soooo bad that he thought that I wasn't even worth putting in the holding pool. Also, I had intimated that I would be prepared to move wherever they wanted to base me.
At the end of the day though, Flybe pay the wages and can pick who they like. Just so happens on this occassion they got it wrong (IMHO).
Fortunately, I've had other offers of freelance work, and while not as good as the flybe position, it will at least keep my flying.
Cheers
JF
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I have applied to flybe several times over the last year after sound advice from people who know that they are recruiting. I have evan had some positive letters in return.
Yet I have heard nothing. I now hear that alot of people are getting interviews and sim rides etc.
I understand from flybe sources that FO recruitment will continue through the first part of 2005 yet I am dismayed as I thought I would hear something by now. I'm not gods gift to the airlines but I think I have a pretty respectable CV (1000+hrs, 700hrs multi crew Jet). I'm early 20's and keen, eager and ready to go like the the rest.
Fair play to the guys that have got there so far but I just wonder what the hell are flybe looking for.
Perhaps someone will know if they will continue to recruit FO's over the next couple of months, maybe there is still a chance for myself and the others!
Any news very welcome.
Yet I have heard nothing. I now hear that alot of people are getting interviews and sim rides etc.
I understand from flybe sources that FO recruitment will continue through the first part of 2005 yet I am dismayed as I thought I would hear something by now. I'm not gods gift to the airlines but I think I have a pretty respectable CV (1000+hrs, 700hrs multi crew Jet). I'm early 20's and keen, eager and ready to go like the the rest.
Fair play to the guys that have got there so far but I just wonder what the hell are flybe looking for.
Perhaps someone will know if they will continue to recruit FO's over the next couple of months, maybe there is still a chance for myself and the others!
Any news very welcome.
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737 Pilots
Anybody know about flybe's plans for crewing up the 737s with their own flight crew, or will it be only Astraeus pilots flying these, once they start this summer (and for the foreseeable future)?
I guess that the way things are looking for them right now, they'd struggle to do this anyway!
I guess that the way things are looking for them right now, they'd struggle to do this anyway!
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howsurflight - I honestly don't know.
Jockflyer - Have been with flybe since 98 and never heard of Stewart. update = he was with the Company though - thanks BPM Given what you say, I personally don't understand what happened. Who did the rejection letter come from? You could perhaps try writing to Eddie. This is not the first time I've heard of a case where applicants seem to have impressed Eddie, but then get rejected.
headyheights - Again, yet another puzzling situation, as you can imagine it is impossible to work out what the hell is going on at EXT.
One thing that I'm sure you can all work out for yourselves is that, with these people controlling our careers, it is no big surprise that people are leaving in droves. Why you would want to be a part of this is strange.
Sven - So far, 4 of our senior 146 pilots have gone off to Astreus for training.
Jockflyer - Have been with flybe since 98 and never heard of Stewart. update = he was with the Company though - thanks BPM Given what you say, I personally don't understand what happened. Who did the rejection letter come from? You could perhaps try writing to Eddie. This is not the first time I've heard of a case where applicants seem to have impressed Eddie, but then get rejected.
headyheights - Again, yet another puzzling situation, as you can imagine it is impossible to work out what the hell is going on at EXT.
One thing that I'm sure you can all work out for yourselves is that, with these people controlling our careers, it is no big surprise that people are leaving in droves. Why you would want to be a part of this is strange.
Sven - So far, 4 of our senior 146 pilots have gone off to Astreus for training.
Last edited by flybe.com; 4th Feb 2005 at 01:53.
e28 driver
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I'll add my name to the list,
Over 2000 hours UK airline multi turbine and I can't even get a written response. I rang today and was told my CV will have been 'put on file'.
Like some others here I'm not a spring chicken (35) but not really that bothered about flying shiny jets.
So what's the story? Should I just give up and take the command I've been promised (by Christmas!) with my lot or is there some 'secret entrance' to Flybe??
Over 2000 hours UK airline multi turbine and I can't even get a written response. I rang today and was told my CV will have been 'put on file'.
Like some others here I'm not a spring chicken (35) but not really that bothered about flying shiny jets.
So what's the story? Should I just give up and take the command I've been promised (by Christmas!) with my lot or is there some 'secret entrance' to Flybe??
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ok peeps, here is an update for you all regarding the direct entry 146 people.
Things slightly changed after the induction week and the contract now stands as:
5k towards rating
We will be bonded as of 31/1/05 for 3 years for 13.5k
we will be on the seniority list as of this date
after 3-8 months we shall then be on the q400
we shall begin as every1 does, on the turboprop salary
as we are SIMPLY KEEPING SEATS WARM for current Senior Dash FO's, they will now be getting back dated JET SALARY.
I hope this clears up the whole issue.Also from the immediate bond it takes away the option of us leaving after 3-8 months of jet time.
However...i'm sure there are still people out there that still dont want to leave the playground....let the bitching continue...
Things slightly changed after the induction week and the contract now stands as:
5k towards rating
We will be bonded as of 31/1/05 for 3 years for 13.5k
we will be on the seniority list as of this date
after 3-8 months we shall then be on the q400
we shall begin as every1 does, on the turboprop salary
as we are SIMPLY KEEPING SEATS WARM for current Senior Dash FO's, they will now be getting back dated JET SALARY.
I hope this clears up the whole issue.Also from the immediate bond it takes away the option of us leaving after 3-8 months of jet time.
However...i'm sure there are still people out there that still dont want to leave the playground....let the bitching continue...
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bleed_air - might I enquire who your comment above is targeted at?
Some of us are aware that the deal you have been given is not what you originally thought, but it is not your flightdeck colleagues on here whom you should be venting your frustration upon, they didn't dictate the details!
I might add that there are no plans that we are aware of to pay backdated jet salary to those whose seats are being kept warm.
Some of us are aware that the deal you have been given is not what you originally thought, but it is not your flightdeck colleagues on here whom you should be venting your frustration upon, they didn't dictate the details!
I might add that there are no plans that we are aware of to pay backdated jet salary to those whose seats are being kept warm.
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Flybe.com
Our CC's were going to approach the company and recommend the backdated payment. The company doesn't lose out by paying twice and it shows good faith towards those who have temporarily been passed over. Looks like the company have agreed to our CC's requests. Don't think that this update has quite infiltrated the whole network yet!!
Our CC's were going to approach the company and recommend the backdated payment. The company doesn't lose out by paying twice and it shows good faith towards those who have temporarily been passed over. Looks like the company have agreed to our CC's requests. Don't think that this update has quite infiltrated the whole network yet!!
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Apologies to everybody for the earlier post - an admin error was to blame for the inaccurate information regarding pay - flybe have always intended we start on turbo prop salary.
May I follow on from bleed air to put minds at rest. As soon as the new Dash guys are in place to create enough flexibility the senior Dash pilots will be moved onto the 146, according to seniority as per usual. Whenever that happens, their pay will be backdated at full jet salary to this monday - 31/01/05, meaning no financial sacrifice has been made by the delay in getting onto the jet. This delay is only because resignations have meant these people cannot leave the dash fleet just yet as they are required to fly. This is our starting date, and we are only a short term stop gap to ensure that the jet seats stay waiting for you, so that as soon as the senior pilots can be spared from the dash fleet they are theirs.
We are now full flybe empolyees, and as soon as they are ready we will be transferred onto the Dash - no leaving early with jet hours, because as stated we are now bonded from 31/01/05.
Hope that clears up the situation a little, and as it happens my goals are to work towards command on the Dash - not runnning off to another company as soon as I can!
Once again, apologies for my earlier inaccurate post,
JP
May I follow on from bleed air to put minds at rest. As soon as the new Dash guys are in place to create enough flexibility the senior Dash pilots will be moved onto the 146, according to seniority as per usual. Whenever that happens, their pay will be backdated at full jet salary to this monday - 31/01/05, meaning no financial sacrifice has been made by the delay in getting onto the jet. This delay is only because resignations have meant these people cannot leave the dash fleet just yet as they are required to fly. This is our starting date, and we are only a short term stop gap to ensure that the jet seats stay waiting for you, so that as soon as the senior pilots can be spared from the dash fleet they are theirs.
We are now full flybe empolyees, and as soon as they are ready we will be transferred onto the Dash - no leaving early with jet hours, because as stated we are now bonded from 31/01/05.
Hope that clears up the situation a little, and as it happens my goals are to work towards command on the Dash - not runnning off to another company as soon as I can!
Once again, apologies for my earlier inaccurate post,
JP
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flybe.com - i appolagise if my last post appeared to be one that was venting..i can assure u that it wasnt, i was more than happy with the first contract offered as i am with this one. I would have sold my gran to work for flybe in any FO position, and my last post was simpy to clear the air with the whole salary/bond etc.
i was just sure that sum1 would poke up and still be wanting to have a scrap about it.
i was just sure that sum1 would poke up and still be wanting to have a scrap about it.
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bleed_air - understood. No one with any sense will be pointing the finger at you guys.
It would appear that the Company has learnt some lessons from the last time this happened in 98/99, albeit with a little suggestive nudge in the right direction from the BALPA Crew Council. With such an apparently fluid issue, and therefore no communication from HQ to the masses, we have PPRuNe to thank for dissolving any hearsay.
er82 - have you just recently bought a car?
It would appear that the Company has learnt some lessons from the last time this happened in 98/99, albeit with a little suggestive nudge in the right direction from the BALPA Crew Council. With such an apparently fluid issue, and therefore no communication from HQ to the masses, we have PPRuNe to thank for dissolving any hearsay.
er82 - have you just recently bought a car?
Last edited by flybe.com; 4th Feb 2005 at 01:41.
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bleed-air
As far as your comment : i was just sure that sum1 would poke up and still be wanting to have a scrap about it.
Try and put yourselves in the shoes of those FO's at Flybe, who have remained loyal to the company, worked their butts off for the past couple of years, and in return were told that due to 'circumstances out of our control' new guys were being taken straight onto the jet...although only for 3-8months as necessary.
First of all, there was the issue of the £5000 type-rating. We have all been bonded on the dash, and some who are now already on the jet have had to take out another bond. Before we all 'had a scrap about it', you weren't going to be bonded for £13000. You were going to be given a type-rating, and a whole summer's jet-hours (which out of SOU and EXT will rack up quickly) for the comparatively measly sum of £5000. Looking at it from our point of view, is that fair???
Secondly, there was the issue that those who are quite rightly next in line for the jet, would be missing out on the increased jet-salary pay. Some FO's have been with the company 3years, and were expecting to be on the jet as of now (especially with all the recent resignations), but instead were told they'd be waiting for at least another 8months. 8months of the increased jet salary is quite a bit - and they'd be missing out on it because of cock-ups made by management. Again, fair????
Sometimes the crew who work endless hours and crappy rosters see things quite clearly, and we are reasonably good at predicting the future. Before you were bonded for 3years, it would have been an almost guaranteed cert that some (please note SOME) of you, would at the end of the 8months turn around and say "thanks very much for the cheapo type-rating and the jet hours, i now have enough hrs to go to the likes of Easy who will pay me twice what you will and I'll get to fly a nice shiny jet, instead of now taking on a bond and reverting back to a turbo-prop". From our point of view - it would have been another kick in the teeth to those who actually want to get on the jet and eventually venture into the LHS.
>>However...i'm sure there are still people out there that still dont want to leave the playground....let the bitching continue..<<
It's not bitching in a playground. It has all been about those FO's who have had to put up with crappy rosters, lack of pay-rises, being pushed to the max etc etc for no reward in return.
jollypilot : unfortunately one particular comment from your post also raises another issue some of us have :
>>we are only a short term stop gap to ensure that the jet seats stay waiting for you, so that as soon as the senior pilots can be spared from the dash fleet they are theirs.<<
Knowing the way in which this company is being run at the moment, there will always be some reason to delay the moment that those senior FO's 'can be spared'!!
flybe.com - I'm afraid so! XXXXX (new car)... What power! And seeing as you now know who I am, perhaps a PM as to who you are - just to level the playing field!
(edited because i realise i was slightly silly and my anonymity has been lost forever!)
As far as your comment : i was just sure that sum1 would poke up and still be wanting to have a scrap about it.
Try and put yourselves in the shoes of those FO's at Flybe, who have remained loyal to the company, worked their butts off for the past couple of years, and in return were told that due to 'circumstances out of our control' new guys were being taken straight onto the jet...although only for 3-8months as necessary.
First of all, there was the issue of the £5000 type-rating. We have all been bonded on the dash, and some who are now already on the jet have had to take out another bond. Before we all 'had a scrap about it', you weren't going to be bonded for £13000. You were going to be given a type-rating, and a whole summer's jet-hours (which out of SOU and EXT will rack up quickly) for the comparatively measly sum of £5000. Looking at it from our point of view, is that fair???
Secondly, there was the issue that those who are quite rightly next in line for the jet, would be missing out on the increased jet-salary pay. Some FO's have been with the company 3years, and were expecting to be on the jet as of now (especially with all the recent resignations), but instead were told they'd be waiting for at least another 8months. 8months of the increased jet salary is quite a bit - and they'd be missing out on it because of cock-ups made by management. Again, fair????
Sometimes the crew who work endless hours and crappy rosters see things quite clearly, and we are reasonably good at predicting the future. Before you were bonded for 3years, it would have been an almost guaranteed cert that some (please note SOME) of you, would at the end of the 8months turn around and say "thanks very much for the cheapo type-rating and the jet hours, i now have enough hrs to go to the likes of Easy who will pay me twice what you will and I'll get to fly a nice shiny jet, instead of now taking on a bond and reverting back to a turbo-prop". From our point of view - it would have been another kick in the teeth to those who actually want to get on the jet and eventually venture into the LHS.
>>However...i'm sure there are still people out there that still dont want to leave the playground....let the bitching continue..<<
It's not bitching in a playground. It has all been about those FO's who have had to put up with crappy rosters, lack of pay-rises, being pushed to the max etc etc for no reward in return.
jollypilot : unfortunately one particular comment from your post also raises another issue some of us have :
>>we are only a short term stop gap to ensure that the jet seats stay waiting for you, so that as soon as the senior pilots can be spared from the dash fleet they are theirs.<<
Knowing the way in which this company is being run at the moment, there will always be some reason to delay the moment that those senior FO's 'can be spared'!!
flybe.com - I'm afraid so! XXXXX (new car)... What power! And seeing as you now know who I am, perhaps a PM as to who you are - just to level the playing field!
(edited because i realise i was slightly silly and my anonymity has been lost forever!)
Last edited by er82; 3rd Feb 2005 at 17:25.