Hours V's viable experience
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Hours V's viable experience
I was under the impression that hours were how we were measured as pilots.
Wrong, very wrong.
and as it turns out i reckon CTC have it very right.
1,000 hours instructing is not, repeat is not going to get you, in a multi crew environment, safely down a procedural ndb to a safe landing.
You need relevent hours. thats where ctc come in an search out those with relelvant hours and experience.
So Mr/Mrs/Ms im not going to pay for my type rating, i suggest you think about how relevant what you are doing now is going to equip you to get down a procedural ndb with your 500 hours sitting LHS seat round the circuit compared to an intensive course focusing on the skills you do need to cut it on a jet.
Wrong, very wrong.
and as it turns out i reckon CTC have it very right.
1,000 hours instructing is not, repeat is not going to get you, in a multi crew environment, safely down a procedural ndb to a safe landing.
You need relevent hours. thats where ctc come in an search out those with relelvant hours and experience.
So Mr/Mrs/Ms im not going to pay for my type rating, i suggest you think about how relevant what you are doing now is going to equip you to get down a procedural ndb with your 500 hours sitting LHS seat round the circuit compared to an intensive course focusing on the skills you do need to cut it on a jet.
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A bit of a generalization easyswimmer and very much your opinion.
In fact some of CTC's output are people whose previous experience was 1000 (ish) hours instructing. I know because I fly with them. I also fly with people who have worked their way up from instructors to turboprop pilots and even heavy piston prop pilots. I fly with people who moved up through bush pilot jobs, survey pilots, helicopter pilots. Royal air force, Royal navy pilots who have changed career from various aircraft types. I also fly with pilots who were lucky and skillful enough to be sponsored through their professional licences and ratings.
CTC may be a good source of lowish houred pilots with good CRM skills, but they are not the be all and end all so don't kid yourself. "Getting safely down a procedural NDB to a safe landing " is no more important or relevant than many other aspects of the job either. The "skills you need to cut it on a jet" as you put it are learned through years of experience (many of them on that jet !) . Many if not most of those skills apply equally to other operating environments as well. Wait untill you have flown through some of the more remote parts of the world with little support and backup other than your own wits and those of your colleagues, before you pronounce anything about the skills to cut it on anything. I have flown jet airliners for the last 22 years and I can tell you that for the most part is it a comfortable shirt sleeve environment that is not terribly demanding in many respects. Given a CRT full colour Navigation display with raw data backup on my trusty 757 or a needle on the old F27 but with a second pair of eyes next to me, or a needle ,no spinning compass card, no autopilot, and just me on my lonesome on a light aircraft, all flying down your procedural NDB approach. Guess which order I would rather place myself in ? Actually I answered it for you.
Nothing wrong with instructors. Many of the good ones have very honed experience of being quick to detect adverse trends etc. they also should have developed good customer skills which they can adapt to CRM skills. Airlines directly and indirectly have long recognised this and employed pilots from this background. Clearly CTC have as well.
In fact some of CTC's output are people whose previous experience was 1000 (ish) hours instructing. I know because I fly with them. I also fly with people who have worked their way up from instructors to turboprop pilots and even heavy piston prop pilots. I fly with people who moved up through bush pilot jobs, survey pilots, helicopter pilots. Royal air force, Royal navy pilots who have changed career from various aircraft types. I also fly with pilots who were lucky and skillful enough to be sponsored through their professional licences and ratings.
CTC may be a good source of lowish houred pilots with good CRM skills, but they are not the be all and end all so don't kid yourself. "Getting safely down a procedural NDB to a safe landing " is no more important or relevant than many other aspects of the job either. The "skills you need to cut it on a jet" as you put it are learned through years of experience (many of them on that jet !) . Many if not most of those skills apply equally to other operating environments as well. Wait untill you have flown through some of the more remote parts of the world with little support and backup other than your own wits and those of your colleagues, before you pronounce anything about the skills to cut it on anything. I have flown jet airliners for the last 22 years and I can tell you that for the most part is it a comfortable shirt sleeve environment that is not terribly demanding in many respects. Given a CRT full colour Navigation display with raw data backup on my trusty 757 or a needle on the old F27 but with a second pair of eyes next to me, or a needle ,no spinning compass card, no autopilot, and just me on my lonesome on a light aircraft, all flying down your procedural NDB approach. Guess which order I would rather place myself in ? Actually I answered it for you.
Nothing wrong with instructors. Many of the good ones have very honed experience of being quick to detect adverse trends etc. they also should have developed good customer skills which they can adapt to CRM skills. Airlines directly and indirectly have long recognised this and employed pilots from this background. Clearly CTC have as well.
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Just to qualify this comment....I have never, and probably will never be an elementary flying instructor.
Easyswimmer..forgive me for getting grumpy at you...Im certain its because im getting old..and I think also because you seemingly have bought into this ill concieved concept that plenty of instructing/flying experience is a bad thing..and doesnt qualify as viable experience. Once again the "sales"(yes thats sim instructors too) people of flight training organisations have put their own spin into the training and experience question. It stands to reason that someone with less requirement to be trained i.e. not ab-initio will be far less an attractive option than say someone with £60000 burning a hole in their pocket.
With all due respect to the CTC's of this world...they simply exist to make a profit..if that means bending the truth..or even spinning a line or too..they will!...its business, they certainly dont exist to further the cause of civil aviation.
Next time you speak to CTC Mr Easyswimmer.....ask them how relevant things would be, should a 300hr pilot be left in a situation having to draw apon their meagre experience of all things aviation related...as the radios fail...the ice begins to build.....and then you lose an alternator...all whilst being in the belly of a CB that was embedded..and not forecast. Ive been there....has the viably experienced pilot been there too?
Easyswimmer..forgive me for getting grumpy at you...Im certain its because im getting old..and I think also because you seemingly have bought into this ill concieved concept that plenty of instructing/flying experience is a bad thing..and doesnt qualify as viable experience. Once again the "sales"(yes thats sim instructors too) people of flight training organisations have put their own spin into the training and experience question. It stands to reason that someone with less requirement to be trained i.e. not ab-initio will be far less an attractive option than say someone with £60000 burning a hole in their pocket.
With all due respect to the CTC's of this world...they simply exist to make a profit..if that means bending the truth..or even spinning a line or too..they will!...its business, they certainly dont exist to further the cause of civil aviation.
Next time you speak to CTC Mr Easyswimmer.....ask them how relevant things would be, should a 300hr pilot be left in a situation having to draw apon their meagre experience of all things aviation related...as the radios fail...the ice begins to build.....and then you lose an alternator...all whilst being in the belly of a CB that was embedded..and not forecast. Ive been there....has the viably experienced pilot been there too?
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easyswimmer my dear,
You surprise me.
At a guess I'd say you are;-
- quite young
- low houred
- a great customer to someone
- but mostly...... very nieve.
In my experience, as an airline pilot who cut her teeth instructing, airlines want a broad spectrum of characters and individuals when they are filling the ranks. Imagine how dull and DANGEROUS (the term 'Group Think' springs to mind) it could be if an airline was manned by solely one sort of pilot, be they integrated, modular, CTC, EFT, BBC, ITV, KGB or whatever.
Its all about getting an even balance easyswimmer. Remember that when you eventually get to the sharp end. In the meantime, keep your money in your pocket. Buying a TR or doing a very important-sounding course doesn't AUTOMATICALLY get you want an airline wants or needs.
You surprise me.
i suggest you think about how relevant what you are doing now is going to equip you to get down a procedural ndb.... flannel... flannel... flannel... blah ... blah ... blah.
- quite young
- low houred
- a great customer to someone
- but mostly...... very nieve.
In my experience, as an airline pilot who cut her teeth instructing, airlines want a broad spectrum of characters and individuals when they are filling the ranks. Imagine how dull and DANGEROUS (the term 'Group Think' springs to mind) it could be if an airline was manned by solely one sort of pilot, be they integrated, modular, CTC, EFT, BBC, ITV, KGB or whatever.
Its all about getting an even balance easyswimmer. Remember that when you eventually get to the sharp end. In the meantime, keep your money in your pocket. Buying a TR or doing a very important-sounding course doesn't AUTOMATICALLY get you want an airline wants or needs.
