What's the best route to be a commercial airline pilot?
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Whats the best route??
Hello,
I'm a fairly new pilot wondering what is the best route to take to build time. I have a CPL/Mulit IFR in Canada with 250hrs. I also have two Passports (Canada / Poland). If i wanted to work in europe what are my best choices and what should i expect?? What should i be expecting for a starting wage as well?? Willing to do just about any job that includes me building time.
I'm a fairly new pilot wondering what is the best route to take to build time. I have a CPL/Mulit IFR in Canada with 250hrs. I also have two Passports (Canada / Poland). If i wanted to work in europe what are my best choices and what should i expect?? What should i be expecting for a starting wage as well?? Willing to do just about any job that includes me building time.
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If you want to work in Europe you'd probably need to convert to a JAR license, if you haven't already.
You might try traffic watch or simple ad hoc seneca chartering... ? You could do parachute dropping (although you would be unlikely to get paid for this it is a way to build twin time), however, still being only a mere PPL holder just simply write or visit as many companies as you can, try and get work at home before taking the plunge of migrating...?
You might try traffic watch or simple ad hoc seneca chartering... ? You could do parachute dropping (although you would be unlikely to get paid for this it is a way to build twin time), however, still being only a mere PPL holder just simply write or visit as many companies as you can, try and get work at home before taking the plunge of migrating...?
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I am asking myself the same question:
I'm a fairly new pilot wondering what is the best route to take to build time. I have a CPL/Mulit IFR in Europe with 250hrs. I also have two Passports (Europe / Canada). If i wanted to work in Canada what are my best choices and what should i expect?? What should i be expecting for a starting wage as well?? Willing to do just about any job that includes me building time.
I'm a fairly new pilot wondering what is the best route to take to build time. I have a CPL/Mulit IFR in Europe with 250hrs. I also have two Passports (Europe / Canada). If i wanted to work in Canada what are my best choices and what should i expect?? What should i be expecting for a starting wage as well?? Willing to do just about any job that includes me building time.
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IDIOT
No Wonder you can't get a job, on the 1st of March you wrote that you had "over 2000 hours experience". If your struggling with basic numeracy I would suggest a swift career change and while your at it hand in your membership for this website which proves to be a useful tool for many people other than yourself who clutters the space with utter drivel.
Fly away idiot, for the safety of others not under your command.
Fly away idiot, for the safety of others not under your command.
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Hmm.. I'll just don my dearstalker and point out the unusual use of the "double question-mark" (??) - where else have I seen that Watson?
No sh1t!
Rochonner, you are a legend.
Originally Posted by A320rider
I am asking myself the same question
Rochonner, you are a legend.
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hmmm again
I'd agree with J Lieber- there does seem to be something odd going on here.
As an experienced pilot with apparently over 2000 hours A320rider must know more about wages etc. than most posting on this forum.
After all, (s)he never usually seems shy to give his opinion?
As an experienced pilot with apparently over 2000 hours A320rider must know more about wages etc. than most posting on this forum.
After all, (s)he never usually seems shy to give his opinion?
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That sounds wise. Instructing is great for building experience and reinforcing first principles - it also makes one more humble and less cocky (me anyway). In any case regular flying is good for ones morale.
Whatever you do, try to enjoy it. Good luck.
L
That sounds wise. Instructing is great for building experience and reinforcing first principles - it also makes one more humble and less cocky (me anyway). In any case regular flying is good for ones morale.
Whatever you do, try to enjoy it. Good luck.
L
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Feasible or Realistic Plan?
**I've posted this same message at others boards and sections, I'm re-posting here to see what people on this board or section can add.
After reading a lot about flying careers, hearing stories of others, and reluctantly giving up on the military flying route because of age, I came up with a plan to fly for a major, cargo, or international airline in six years. I just wanted to know, form the experts, if my plan was feasible or realistic. Here it is:
-I am currently 28 (turning 29 in June 2006), and I'm prior enlisted in the military and currently working for the US Air Force in civil service and have a B.S. in Business from NYU with a very high GPA and Zero filght hours.
-I plan on starting flight training with Edwards AFB Aero Club in May and within a year earn at least my commercial, single engine, instrument rating by May of 2007.
-Beginning in Summer of 2007, I will attend the Advanced Airline Training Program at Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach, FL. There I get multi-engine rating, line operations experience, advanced simulator training in level "D" ERJ-145 Full flight sim (EFIS-FMS equipped), in a mock Part 121 training environment with required performance at ATP level. While enrolled in that program (and after passing the interview), students receive a conditional offer of employment for a FO position in a regional airline, because of agreements in place with their partners (ASA, TSA, ExpressJet, or American Eagle). Hopefully I get Expressjet, but anything will do.
-After almost a year of training at Flight Safety, I will begin work at the regional. Then after about three or four years of building hours and experience on low pay I plan on applying to a major, cargo, or international airline such as Cathay Pacific or Emirates as a FO or SO (Which, I was told by a 777 pilot for Emirates, is hiring a ton of pilots at the moment, and I love Dubai).
-I will relocate anywhere to get a job. I also love the life of travelling everyday, living out of hotels, and also actually prefer being domiciled outside of the US (which, from my Air Force experince, is nothing new).
-So I will be 34-35 by the time I'm at a major and will have 25 years left for my Pilot career.
Does this sound do-able? Or am I insane. Also is this realistic, or is there a better way? Please let me know before I undertake this long journey. Thanks in advance.
**Plus this was a reply to questions after posting on other sites:
Thanks for the dose of reality. I came up with this plan thinking I was based in reality because of all the stories I've read about and personal experiences pilots I know relayed to me about reaching the majors in shorter periods of time. But all of the stories must have either been bogus or the people were extremely lucky. So now I'm thinking, to make the majors (if ever), it would take more like 10-12 years, most likely more.
On a side note, all the training I will receive past PPL, because of my service to our country, will be paid by the VA Gi Bill (including Flight Safety). Also I paid for my undergrad education with a combination of active duty tuition assistance and student loans, which I have already paid off. So none of the training costs will come out of pocket. If this is the case, is it still not worth it?
Also, I wanted people to know I have dreamed of being a pilot ever since childhood, so pay and prestige is not what I'm after (but it would be nice of course). So if I ended up working at a reqional for the rest of my career, I would still be ecstatic, as long as I am a proffessional pilot.
In regards to what I would do if the regionals were not hiring, and I had to wait around for a class date, I have an open job offer at Patrick AFB in Cocoa Beach, FL near Flight Safety in my current career field that pays well that I could take while waiting.
Also, because of my edcuation in Business and Finance, I have studied quite a bit on the state of the Airline industry, and I understand very well that it is not in good shape (domestically anyways). But it doesn't scare me, because if I ever lost my job in the airline I would always have my B.S. to fall back on and also, although not preferable, I could transfer to the "Dark Side" of the industry with my degree.
On the issue of training, I would love to train at the Aero Club because it is near my home and there are good Air Force people there but a problem exists because of the limited number of planes and instructors. To get all the neccessary ratings it would take a very long time, perhaps even long breaks in between ratings. Also the GI Bill won't give me as much money to train at the Aero Club as opposed to Flight Safety (where I would receive money for housing and living expenses also because it is a full time institution).
Anyways, thank you very much for the constructive criticism, and please keep it coming. So far, after hearing your comments, I am thinking Flight Saftey may not be the right path. Also I may have to give up on the idea of retiring after a long career in the airlines because it looks like it will take a very long time (if ever) for me to get a job with any sort of pension plan. Maybe I should just do this as a hobby or plan on working for the regionals in the far future after many years as a CFI. Any more comments would be appreciated.
**Sorry for the length, I'm just very hungry for info. Thanks
After reading a lot about flying careers, hearing stories of others, and reluctantly giving up on the military flying route because of age, I came up with a plan to fly for a major, cargo, or international airline in six years. I just wanted to know, form the experts, if my plan was feasible or realistic. Here it is:
-I am currently 28 (turning 29 in June 2006), and I'm prior enlisted in the military and currently working for the US Air Force in civil service and have a B.S. in Business from NYU with a very high GPA and Zero filght hours.
-I plan on starting flight training with Edwards AFB Aero Club in May and within a year earn at least my commercial, single engine, instrument rating by May of 2007.
-Beginning in Summer of 2007, I will attend the Advanced Airline Training Program at Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach, FL. There I get multi-engine rating, line operations experience, advanced simulator training in level "D" ERJ-145 Full flight sim (EFIS-FMS equipped), in a mock Part 121 training environment with required performance at ATP level. While enrolled in that program (and after passing the interview), students receive a conditional offer of employment for a FO position in a regional airline, because of agreements in place with their partners (ASA, TSA, ExpressJet, or American Eagle). Hopefully I get Expressjet, but anything will do.
-After almost a year of training at Flight Safety, I will begin work at the regional. Then after about three or four years of building hours and experience on low pay I plan on applying to a major, cargo, or international airline such as Cathay Pacific or Emirates as a FO or SO (Which, I was told by a 777 pilot for Emirates, is hiring a ton of pilots at the moment, and I love Dubai).
-I will relocate anywhere to get a job. I also love the life of travelling everyday, living out of hotels, and also actually prefer being domiciled outside of the US (which, from my Air Force experince, is nothing new).
-So I will be 34-35 by the time I'm at a major and will have 25 years left for my Pilot career.
Does this sound do-able? Or am I insane. Also is this realistic, or is there a better way? Please let me know before I undertake this long journey. Thanks in advance.
**Plus this was a reply to questions after posting on other sites:
Thanks for the dose of reality. I came up with this plan thinking I was based in reality because of all the stories I've read about and personal experiences pilots I know relayed to me about reaching the majors in shorter periods of time. But all of the stories must have either been bogus or the people were extremely lucky. So now I'm thinking, to make the majors (if ever), it would take more like 10-12 years, most likely more.
On a side note, all the training I will receive past PPL, because of my service to our country, will be paid by the VA Gi Bill (including Flight Safety). Also I paid for my undergrad education with a combination of active duty tuition assistance and student loans, which I have already paid off. So none of the training costs will come out of pocket. If this is the case, is it still not worth it?
Also, I wanted people to know I have dreamed of being a pilot ever since childhood, so pay and prestige is not what I'm after (but it would be nice of course). So if I ended up working at a reqional for the rest of my career, I would still be ecstatic, as long as I am a proffessional pilot.
In regards to what I would do if the regionals were not hiring, and I had to wait around for a class date, I have an open job offer at Patrick AFB in Cocoa Beach, FL near Flight Safety in my current career field that pays well that I could take while waiting.
Also, because of my edcuation in Business and Finance, I have studied quite a bit on the state of the Airline industry, and I understand very well that it is not in good shape (domestically anyways). But it doesn't scare me, because if I ever lost my job in the airline I would always have my B.S. to fall back on and also, although not preferable, I could transfer to the "Dark Side" of the industry with my degree.
On the issue of training, I would love to train at the Aero Club because it is near my home and there are good Air Force people there but a problem exists because of the limited number of planes and instructors. To get all the neccessary ratings it would take a very long time, perhaps even long breaks in between ratings. Also the GI Bill won't give me as much money to train at the Aero Club as opposed to Flight Safety (where I would receive money for housing and living expenses also because it is a full time institution).
Anyways, thank you very much for the constructive criticism, and please keep it coming. So far, after hearing your comments, I am thinking Flight Saftey may not be the right path. Also I may have to give up on the idea of retiring after a long career in the airlines because it looks like it will take a very long time (if ever) for me to get a job with any sort of pension plan. Maybe I should just do this as a hobby or plan on working for the regionals in the far future after many years as a CFI. Any more comments would be appreciated.
**Sorry for the length, I'm just very hungry for info. Thanks
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34-35 years old, and 25 years of career in front of you.
I can get a 21 years old boy with 45 years of career in front of him
Sorry, but you are already out of Business.(OOB)
I am OOB too!
I can get a 21 years old boy with 45 years of career in front of him
Sorry, but you are already out of Business.(OOB)
I am OOB too!
Jet Blast Rat
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A320, as usual, points out the flaws in his own argument without realising it. He doesn't want to fly unless he gets a big shiny jet in a prestigious company, so only wants towork for the guys who expect their pilots to stay for their entire career. Most emplyers of junior pilots know that they are a stepping stone to the bigger airlines for most of their recruits, so are quite relieved by someone who might stay 25 years!
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You're completely self explaining man - you've got all it takes - the will, limited financial risks, an alternate - just have to do it!
No doubt, you should have started yesterday. Good luck
No doubt, you should have started yesterday. Good luck
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I must agree with Zooloflyer completely!
As much as I enjoy A320Riders unstoppable pessimism, I believe that there will always be companies out there that values personal maturity a great deal. It will be more important that you have the right attitude and will be a low risk pilot to train rather than the idea that you will be there for 40 years.
About your flight training, let me put it like this, I have not once looked back on my flight training with regret, and I was out of the cockpit for three years. Since you get to do this with little or no financial risk I would say that it would be foolish not to pursue this path. Most pilots will tell you the same. I believe that with your realistic outlook it will be very rewarding for you.
About your flight training facility, If I would get my flight training at FSI paid for by the GI bill I would be there yesterday! They are one of the most professional training institutions in the world!
About your age. I don't know too much about the situation in the states, I do know however that two of my friends over there just got hired at the tender age of 34 and 36. One of them went to AirTran after a few years at TSA and the other to FedEx.
To start flight training can be a hard decision to make, but you seem to have the right attitude and insight, I would say that you should go with your gut feeling. If you don't you will probably end up thinking of the things that could have been.
All the best to you.
As much as I enjoy A320Riders unstoppable pessimism, I believe that there will always be companies out there that values personal maturity a great deal. It will be more important that you have the right attitude and will be a low risk pilot to train rather than the idea that you will be there for 40 years.
About your flight training, let me put it like this, I have not once looked back on my flight training with regret, and I was out of the cockpit for three years. Since you get to do this with little or no financial risk I would say that it would be foolish not to pursue this path. Most pilots will tell you the same. I believe that with your realistic outlook it will be very rewarding for you.
About your flight training facility, If I would get my flight training at FSI paid for by the GI bill I would be there yesterday! They are one of the most professional training institutions in the world!
About your age. I don't know too much about the situation in the states, I do know however that two of my friends over there just got hired at the tender age of 34 and 36. One of them went to AirTran after a few years at TSA and the other to FedEx.
To start flight training can be a hard decision to make, but you seem to have the right attitude and insight, I would say that you should go with your gut feeling. If you don't you will probably end up thinking of the things that could have been.
All the best to you.
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Best choice
Hi all, after days of seeking and browsing I decided to post here and hopefully get some good advice.
I just finished my integrated JAA fATPL training (CPL + ME/IR + MCC) 180TT. I hold both EU and US passport, so i have the right to work at both sides of the atlantic, fact that gives me a few options now. I'm lucky to have cash available to continue my training, but I wonder what would be the best option...
Afaik i'd have to convert my JAA to FAA in order to work in the states, and i wonder if its worth to go there and do some timebuilding in single piston engines, get back to EU and look for a regional job here, some self sponsored program, stay on the US and try to fly twins for a little company, aim for the regionals there, try on eastern europe, asia... i have to say that the flight instructor way is not very appealing for me. I'd like to stay close to europe if possible, but obviously for a lowtimer almost "anywhere" is ok as long as its safe, anyway I suppose the best place to start in my case is the US.
I dont want to start a debate about SSTR. I'd very much like to grow in experience going from little to medium to large airplanes, but having to pay for timebuilding, then converting to FAA, looking for jobs there, staying in the US wich means more time and money... i wonder if at the end it would be better to pay 50.000€ to obtain a type rating and be bonded to a company for 3/4 years knowing that you'll work there and after you get back the money invested you'll have a job and possibilities all around the world.
Any thoughts on all this? what's your advice for me?
Thanks a lot
Rory
I just finished my integrated JAA fATPL training (CPL + ME/IR + MCC) 180TT. I hold both EU and US passport, so i have the right to work at both sides of the atlantic, fact that gives me a few options now. I'm lucky to have cash available to continue my training, but I wonder what would be the best option...
Afaik i'd have to convert my JAA to FAA in order to work in the states, and i wonder if its worth to go there and do some timebuilding in single piston engines, get back to EU and look for a regional job here, some self sponsored program, stay on the US and try to fly twins for a little company, aim for the regionals there, try on eastern europe, asia... i have to say that the flight instructor way is not very appealing for me. I'd like to stay close to europe if possible, but obviously for a lowtimer almost "anywhere" is ok as long as its safe, anyway I suppose the best place to start in my case is the US.
I dont want to start a debate about SSTR. I'd very much like to grow in experience going from little to medium to large airplanes, but having to pay for timebuilding, then converting to FAA, looking for jobs there, staying in the US wich means more time and money... i wonder if at the end it would be better to pay 50.000€ to obtain a type rating and be bonded to a company for 3/4 years knowing that you'll work there and after you get back the money invested you'll have a job and possibilities all around the world.
Any thoughts on all this? what's your advice for me?
Thanks a lot
Rory
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North America or Europe?
My 2 cents worth for you:
Jinkster's advice is a possible option. That said, if you have an option to get some multi engine line experience somewhere else in the world and then come back to Europe, that type of experience may be more appealing to a European employer (and that is all I am saying in fear of opening a can of worms!)
I did the opposite to you. I came to Canada with the right to work here, did a Canadian CPL ME/IR and am now going back to the UK to convert it back. In three years here since qualifying I have now managed to acquire nearly 1100hrs of which over 800 is multi piston line experience, nearly half of that multi PIC. What I am saying to you is that if you can get a job in the US with fairly low hours and build some multi time in a commercial op then you must do it if your means allow. A couple of years experience and some quality time will give you a big advantage when you return to the UK to apply for work. If it was turbine time that would be even better, but MEP works too.
Good luck...
Jinkster's advice is a possible option. That said, if you have an option to get some multi engine line experience somewhere else in the world and then come back to Europe, that type of experience may be more appealing to a European employer (and that is all I am saying in fear of opening a can of worms!)
I did the opposite to you. I came to Canada with the right to work here, did a Canadian CPL ME/IR and am now going back to the UK to convert it back. In three years here since qualifying I have now managed to acquire nearly 1100hrs of which over 800 is multi piston line experience, nearly half of that multi PIC. What I am saying to you is that if you can get a job in the US with fairly low hours and build some multi time in a commercial op then you must do it if your means allow. A couple of years experience and some quality time will give you a big advantage when you return to the UK to apply for work. If it was turbine time that would be even better, but MEP works too.
Good luck...
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go to the US and fly there.Converting is easy and cheap and will take 3-4 weeks.
I did my license in the USA and converted here in UK to save some cash.
more chance to get a job in USA(even bad paid) if US citizen and maybe join a corporate.
you have lost lot of money by doing a EU license first(specially for a US/EU citizen) and there are more opportunities in the USA on small/medium aircraft.
I did my license in the USA and converted here in UK to save some cash.
more chance to get a job in USA(even bad paid) if US citizen and maybe join a corporate.
you have lost lot of money by doing a EU license first(specially for a US/EU citizen) and there are more opportunities in the USA on small/medium aircraft.
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So after all it is all possible to do FAA CPL and FAA ME-IR in USA then easily convert them to JAA CPL and JAA ME-IR.
I also would like to work in turboprops or small aircraft, would the USA offer me more that opportunity?
Thanks.
aircockroaches
I also would like to work in turboprops or small aircraft, would the USA offer me more that opportunity?
Thanks.
aircockroaches
