Is age 29 really "over the hill"??
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Is age 29 really "over the hill"??
Ladies and Gents,
It appears that most airline sponsorship schemes seem to have an upper age limit of 25, 27 or 28 years old. Does anyone know of any airlines that accept sponsorship applications from an "old gits" like me at 29 years old?? Other than that I may have to go the fund-it-yourself route.
Which leads to the question, if I went self funded, would I then be not as desireable with a frozen ATPL and aged approx 30-31 compared to someone in a similar situation but only mid to low twenties?? With jobs so hard to get to start with, I'm wondering if I may have chosen this career route bit too late in life.
Any comments from "older" frozen ATPL / sponsored students would be welcome just to give me a bit of confidence that I wouldn't be wasting my time.
Thanks,
Sam
It appears that most airline sponsorship schemes seem to have an upper age limit of 25, 27 or 28 years old. Does anyone know of any airlines that accept sponsorship applications from an "old gits" like me at 29 years old?? Other than that I may have to go the fund-it-yourself route.
Which leads to the question, if I went self funded, would I then be not as desireable with a frozen ATPL and aged approx 30-31 compared to someone in a similar situation but only mid to low twenties?? With jobs so hard to get to start with, I'm wondering if I may have chosen this career route bit too late in life.
Any comments from "older" frozen ATPL / sponsored students would be welcome just to give me a bit of confidence that I wouldn't be wasting my time.
Thanks,
Sam
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Sam,
This topic has come up 10 million, billion, trillion times before please check the previous post using the search function.
A short answer would be your old but not that old. The bigger question is can you spend the rest of you life wondering what if?
cheers
MJR
This topic has come up 10 million, billion, trillion times before please check the previous post using the search function.
A short answer would be your old but not that old. The bigger question is can you spend the rest of you life wondering what if?
cheers
MJR
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Sam
As MJR has said there is plenty already on here about this very topic.
As a starter though, it all depends on the airlines' requirements at any specific time. Some prefer younger, some older, some prefer experience, some take on newly qualified guys/girls straight out of training. Youth brings the potential of more working years to be gained from that person, but how many people stay in the same job 5 or 10 years ? With age you have experience of life which can be an advantage in the right place.
Remember that there is a lot more flying out there than the obvious airline work, but whatever type of flying you want to do, you have to be in it to win it.
I know people who have got their first airline job in their forties, one was only last year during the big downturn in recruitment. Sponsorships are a lot thinner on the ground than they used to be, no matter what age you are.
You have 4 years start on me too, so if you are past it then I don't stand a cat in hells chance of getting an airline job, but as I type this I am steadily digesting the ATPL exam notes because I don't want to look back and wonder "what if". I have the belief that I have what it takes to succeed, and that, more than age is what matters IMHO.
Best of luck.
NHF
As MJR has said there is plenty already on here about this very topic.
As a starter though, it all depends on the airlines' requirements at any specific time. Some prefer younger, some older, some prefer experience, some take on newly qualified guys/girls straight out of training. Youth brings the potential of more working years to be gained from that person, but how many people stay in the same job 5 or 10 years ? With age you have experience of life which can be an advantage in the right place.
Remember that there is a lot more flying out there than the obvious airline work, but whatever type of flying you want to do, you have to be in it to win it.
I know people who have got their first airline job in their forties, one was only last year during the big downturn in recruitment. Sponsorships are a lot thinner on the ground than they used to be, no matter what age you are.
You have 4 years start on me too, so if you are past it then I don't stand a cat in hells chance of getting an airline job, but as I type this I am steadily digesting the ATPL exam notes because I don't want to look back and wonder "what if". I have the belief that I have what it takes to succeed, and that, more than age is what matters IMHO.
Best of luck.
NHF
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age
what makes me laugh is that there is plenty of coverage about the retirement age in BA etc and european legislation regarding age discrimination - but look at the ageism demonstrated in these sponsorship schemes and within DEP recruitment in general.
I agree with prev posts in that it very much depends on who's recruiting you and what they're looking for. IMHO the bigger outfits like easy and britannia like the younger FO's who are more likely to be the same age as their traditional cadets.
I've never been able to get my head round the fact that younger frozen atpls tend to be given preference when they must have been given the money or have remortgaged their parents house to do a self sp course. it doesn't seem to follow that if you've earnt during your twenties and then paid your own way to do a licence that it stands in your favour. there are many 30+ frozen atpls waiting for that first job.
i started when i was 30, so if you go for it now then you're likely to come out at a better time (not allowing for more 9/11) than presently (can it be worse). Aviation has to expand when you consider how crap all other public transport is.
cheers
B
I agree with prev posts in that it very much depends on who's recruiting you and what they're looking for. IMHO the bigger outfits like easy and britannia like the younger FO's who are more likely to be the same age as their traditional cadets.
I've never been able to get my head round the fact that younger frozen atpls tend to be given preference when they must have been given the money or have remortgaged their parents house to do a self sp course. it doesn't seem to follow that if you've earnt during your twenties and then paid your own way to do a licence that it stands in your favour. there are many 30+ frozen atpls waiting for that first job.
i started when i was 30, so if you go for it now then you're likely to come out at a better time (not allowing for more 9/11) than presently (can it be worse). Aviation has to expand when you consider how crap all other public transport is.
cheers
B
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I can only support NF's comments, it really depends on the individal, the airline, etc. 2 of my good friends got their 1st airline job this year and they are 36 & 37, both with less than 500TT.
There are airlines, however, that state a minimum TT vs age for initial application. Air France, for example, applies the following rule:
Less than 30 years old: no mimum TT
30-34: 1000TT
35-38: 2000TT
39-41: 3000TT
41-45: 3500TT
As with any airline this "mandatory" TT can be reduced if typed in
one of the aircraft!
MF
There are airlines, however, that state a minimum TT vs age for initial application. Air France, for example, applies the following rule:
Less than 30 years old: no mimum TT
30-34: 1000TT
35-38: 2000TT
39-41: 3000TT
41-45: 3500TT
As with any airline this "mandatory" TT can be reduced if typed in
one of the aircraft!
MF
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My impression from my experience is that the 'right' age bracket to be coming out with your fozen ATPL is between 21 and 25 and that the further you are from that the more you will struggle to find someone willing to offer you a first position on a jet, if thats what you're after. If you can imagine a bell curve chopped off at 21 on the lower end and tailing off to retirement age with a strong peak at 23 you might get an idea of your chances due to age. Its not impossible that you will get your first job at 50, and somebody probably will, just a lot less likely. Starting at 30 you will already find some doors closed to you but it is by no means impossible. I would not recommend getting into the career if you do not want to struggle and you want to have an easy life over the next few years. If you don't mind a few setbacks and can't imagine doing anything else then go for it and don't look back!
Its a much bigger handicap being say 19 rather than 29.
You are going to be interviewed by people probably in their 30's & 40's and maybe 50's. Its hard to 'gel' with them if the acnes only just left your face and you look like your mum picked your tie.
These days few airlines persist with the idea that you are going to work for them right through to the carriage clock. Therefore notions of wanting someone who can give them 30+ years are somewhat outdated and non-evident.
To be honest most airlines just hope *they* will be around in 30 years time. As long as you show a reasonable likelihood of serving out your bond and then hanging around until promotion time then thats as much as they want to see.
Cheers
WWW
You are going to be interviewed by people probably in their 30's & 40's and maybe 50's. Its hard to 'gel' with them if the acnes only just left your face and you look like your mum picked your tie.
These days few airlines persist with the idea that you are going to work for them right through to the carriage clock. Therefore notions of wanting someone who can give them 30+ years are somewhat outdated and non-evident.
To be honest most airlines just hope *they* will be around in 30 years time. As long as you show a reasonable likelihood of serving out your bond and then hanging around until promotion time then thats as much as they want to see.
Cheers
WWW
Supercharged PPRuNer
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I certainly hope 29 isn’t over the hill, although you’d be extremely lucky to find sponsorships at your age. (Come to think of it, you’d be extremely lucky to find a sponsorship at any age).
I’m 32 & self-sponsoring, and didn’t even have a trial lesson until I was 29.
For inspiration, look no further than Captain Pprune himself – 1st commercial job aged 37 I believe.
I’m 32 & self-sponsoring, and didn’t even have a trial lesson until I was 29.
For inspiration, look no further than Captain Pprune himself – 1st commercial job aged 37 I believe.
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Is 29 too old? Don't be daft. I got my first job at 43, ok only a turbo job but looking at a jet promotion soon I hope. If you can show your keen and will be loyal to the company etc. then age is not a problem. What I will say is that it pays to net-work. Get to know the people concerned with hiring and ring them frequently, (but don't over-do it). Keep those CV's circulating, if a company is recruiting, despite what they tell you, they pick off the top of the pile, make sure your CV is there. They will also look at the CV's of those that have been recommended to them first, knowing someone in the company who will champion your cause is a great asset.
Good luck
Good luck
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The goalposts just keep moving.
I think it really depends upon motivation and drive but age does make a big difference. I can't think of anyone I know who 'has always wanted to fly' and got their first commercial flying job past thirty. If however it's a case of a total career change to aviation and your a proven success in another field then its a different story. The big problem within Europe at the moment are the large numbers of experienced pilots on the market with more to follow Easyjet and Rynair are simply snapping these guys up and filling the balance with 250hr cadets. Not good news for many, but its happening.
I think it really depends upon motivation and drive but age does make a big difference. I can't think of anyone I know who 'has always wanted to fly' and got their first commercial flying job past thirty. If however it's a case of a total career change to aviation and your a proven success in another field then its a different story. The big problem within Europe at the moment are the large numbers of experienced pilots on the market with more to follow Easyjet and Rynair are simply snapping these guys up and filling the balance with 250hr cadets. Not good news for many, but its happening.
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I was having a beer with a senior member of a newly set up TP airline in the Devon area (no prizes for guessing which one) and after he mentioned his recruiting we talked a little about what they are looking for. Not good news for us over 30s I am afraid.
Ideally type rated and current. Next was the mid twenties Oxford trained FATPL. If you got your FATPL after 30 your CV is going straight to the bin. Having got mine after 30 I was a bit hurt by this and enquired further. The reasoning is simple. The older you are statistically the higher the chance that you will fail conversion or take longer to train. This costs more. As there are plenty of mid twenties OATS trained types just gagging for a job they are spoilt for choice. And as one of the earlier posts said the Airline is not expecting anyone to hang around for long. In fact if you are over 30 you are more likely to try to leave quickly because you want to move on up to a jet, younger folks have more time on their side.
Fair? I don't think so but I am not handing out the jobs.
Don't give up though. I managed to get my job at 33 after 1 1/2 years instructing. Be prepared to work hard after your FATPL to gain hours and experience. And from what I have seen the best way to get a break is to have a friend in a company who will put your name forward.
Good luck and hang in there. I love it
Ideally type rated and current. Next was the mid twenties Oxford trained FATPL. If you got your FATPL after 30 your CV is going straight to the bin. Having got mine after 30 I was a bit hurt by this and enquired further. The reasoning is simple. The older you are statistically the higher the chance that you will fail conversion or take longer to train. This costs more. As there are plenty of mid twenties OATS trained types just gagging for a job they are spoilt for choice. And as one of the earlier posts said the Airline is not expecting anyone to hang around for long. In fact if you are over 30 you are more likely to try to leave quickly because you want to move on up to a jet, younger folks have more time on their side.
Fair? I don't think so but I am not handing out the jobs.
Don't give up though. I managed to get my job at 33 after 1 1/2 years instructing. Be prepared to work hard after your FATPL to gain hours and experience. And from what I have seen the best way to get a break is to have a friend in a company who will put your name forward.
Good luck and hang in there. I love it
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Don't Know that's strictly true Cruise Alt.
If we are talking about the same company, I managed to get an interview and a sim ride at the ripe old age of 41.
Didn't get a job mind you
and can get little feed back so who knows the score !!!!
FF
If we are talking about the same company, I managed to get an interview and a sim ride at the ripe old age of 41.
Didn't get a job mind you
and can get little feed back so who knows the score !!!!FF
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This is a difficult one really! It all comes down to supply and demand and general market forces. Can you afford to take a potentially massive pay cut to start work as a regional/turbo FO. Your standard of living will go down almost certainly while you train and search for that decent airline job. IMHO at the mo I feel it's definitely harder post 30. Of course you can shorten the odds a lot by knowing the right people in an airline and less so by being a star cadet at OATS or Jerez (no I wasn't a CAP509er so don't start!).
How much do you want it? That is a most important question! If you want it more than anything else then by all means go for it, as you will be miserable for the rest of your life. HOWEVER, along the way you will have to make many sacrifices and forgo many luxuries and life will at times be very tough and mark my words will test your resolve to the limit. Not to mention the stress, anxiety and uncertainty that are part and parcel of being a frozen ATPL. So you see what I mean when I say you must really want it badly.
I do know a couple of guys over 35 who landed turbo jobs in the last 6 months but the pay is shocking and they commute to the Midlands from London and fly nights. They have very little life and partners and families suffer. Being over 30, the most likely jobs available are with the small regional outfits where job security and pay are constant worries. So even when you get your first job you'll be thinking about moving onto jets asap. I would say it can take anything from a few months to many years after qualifying to get that first proper airline job. Are you ready for the rollercoaster?
There are loads of opinions here but if I were you I would think carefully about your particular situation, of which we know nothing about. Can you afford to potentially "throw away" £30,000 plus for training purposes? Implementation of JAR has made the situation worse with many European trained pilots elligible to work here and already doing so. 9/11, terrorist threats and potential airline failures add to the uncertainty. This has to be the most uncertain and potentially insecure profession which makes planning one's life very difficult.
When I first posted here nearly 4 years ago I was the same age as you and asked the same question. I was looking for a particular answer and I got it - everyone likes to receive answers they want to hear, it's human nature.
In conclusion, IMHO it's definitely harder over 30 BUT not impossible!
Good luck!
How much do you want it? That is a most important question! If you want it more than anything else then by all means go for it, as you will be miserable for the rest of your life. HOWEVER, along the way you will have to make many sacrifices and forgo many luxuries and life will at times be very tough and mark my words will test your resolve to the limit. Not to mention the stress, anxiety and uncertainty that are part and parcel of being a frozen ATPL. So you see what I mean when I say you must really want it badly.
I do know a couple of guys over 35 who landed turbo jobs in the last 6 months but the pay is shocking and they commute to the Midlands from London and fly nights. They have very little life and partners and families suffer. Being over 30, the most likely jobs available are with the small regional outfits where job security and pay are constant worries. So even when you get your first job you'll be thinking about moving onto jets asap. I would say it can take anything from a few months to many years after qualifying to get that first proper airline job. Are you ready for the rollercoaster?
There are loads of opinions here but if I were you I would think carefully about your particular situation, of which we know nothing about. Can you afford to potentially "throw away" £30,000 plus for training purposes? Implementation of JAR has made the situation worse with many European trained pilots elligible to work here and already doing so. 9/11, terrorist threats and potential airline failures add to the uncertainty. This has to be the most uncertain and potentially insecure profession which makes planning one's life very difficult.
When I first posted here nearly 4 years ago I was the same age as you and asked the same question. I was looking for a particular answer and I got it - everyone likes to receive answers they want to hear, it's human nature.
In conclusion, IMHO it's definitely harder over 30 BUT not impossible!
Good luck!
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Wee Weasley Welshman
I still find it upsetting to see that you have this "thing" against young pilots. Throughout your time with pprune I've noticed that you've debated against those like myself. I'll still be 18 when I get my frozen ATPL and I've had people praise about my age. This is mainly from the cargo outfit I work for but I've also had many cheerful comments from those in the passenger business.
I currently work for an agency, seconded to a worldwide cargo company to handle boxes, freight, packages etc. I travel 170 miles a day to make the 5 night shifts a week and get paid hourly and not that much. The money I earn goes towards paying board, petrol, car maintenance, food and a large loan. So as it stands, during the night I work, during the day I fly (another 60 mile round trip on the mile ticker). It's not a job for me, it's an opportunity and it's what I feel I have to do to get where I want.
You talk about acne, mom's picking ties and not being able to "gel" with older people. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury you describe of having a mom to pick me a tie, and my acne isn't that bad. I've only just started shaving in fact and get Id'd every time I go out to socialise. However, during the past 2 weeks I had to "gel" with about 4 people more than twice my age over 2 interviews for a highly respectable vacancy in operations control for the airline I handle boxes for in the bellys of aircraft. I'll be communicating with pilots, again, more than twice my age upfront and over the phone. I'll be part of the team that organises where they will go, if they can go, when they will go, and for how long.
Last Friday I got the phone call I wanted to here for a long time.
They offered me the job in full knowledge that in the next 6-18 months I am going to have a frozen ATPL. Now why would they do this? I know I wasn't the only one who applied to this vacancy (in fact I have it on good authority that my competition was quiet fierce but I don't want to reason why on the forum for obvious reasons).
I tell you this story in order for you to maybe learn from my experience (if you can possibly ignore my age for a second). You're a moderator yet I think there's a big gap in the advice you offer, and it makes me angry in a way. I'd hate another young ambitious future pilot to be discouraged from a dream job in aviation after coming on the wannabe's forum here at pprune and being faced with the Wee Weasley Welshman. I have wisely surpassed previous comments you have offered, and have never, and will never, look back.
"It’s a much bigger handicap being say 19 rather than 29."
Maybe, in offering experience you shouldn't make these hurtful comparisons. I understand you're trying to help the original poster in making his decision, and offering him great advice but in return don't disown us youngsters...I could be flying your aircraft next year (still.....18).
Anyway, my words of advice to the original poster.
Look at this way. Do you want to spend the rest of your life thinking "What if" or "I wish I....". I'm not telling you to go for it but think way ahead. Think about the risks. When I was summing up what to do I made a list of good against bad on a piece of paper. I made out a strategic career plan and up to now I'm about 3 months behind schedule but I've got all the ticks in the right boxes.
Think of it this way, if you start now, and finish say age 32...you've still got potentially 23 years left of flying in you! I think that's exceptionally reasonable for any reasonably sized outfit as I've seen guy's as old as 35 make it. However, I'm not the person reading your CV or offering jobs out.
If really want it that much and think positive then it will work! Just have a solid plan and prepare for those bad times (not many pennies, rejection letters etc).
Very best of luck.
cheers
obk
I still find it upsetting to see that you have this "thing" against young pilots. Throughout your time with pprune I've noticed that you've debated against those like myself. I'll still be 18 when I get my frozen ATPL and I've had people praise about my age. This is mainly from the cargo outfit I work for but I've also had many cheerful comments from those in the passenger business.
I currently work for an agency, seconded to a worldwide cargo company to handle boxes, freight, packages etc. I travel 170 miles a day to make the 5 night shifts a week and get paid hourly and not that much. The money I earn goes towards paying board, petrol, car maintenance, food and a large loan. So as it stands, during the night I work, during the day I fly (another 60 mile round trip on the mile ticker). It's not a job for me, it's an opportunity and it's what I feel I have to do to get where I want.
You talk about acne, mom's picking ties and not being able to "gel" with older people. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury you describe of having a mom to pick me a tie, and my acne isn't that bad. I've only just started shaving in fact and get Id'd every time I go out to socialise. However, during the past 2 weeks I had to "gel" with about 4 people more than twice my age over 2 interviews for a highly respectable vacancy in operations control for the airline I handle boxes for in the bellys of aircraft. I'll be communicating with pilots, again, more than twice my age upfront and over the phone. I'll be part of the team that organises where they will go, if they can go, when they will go, and for how long.
Last Friday I got the phone call I wanted to here for a long time.
They offered me the job in full knowledge that in the next 6-18 months I am going to have a frozen ATPL. Now why would they do this? I know I wasn't the only one who applied to this vacancy (in fact I have it on good authority that my competition was quiet fierce but I don't want to reason why on the forum for obvious reasons).
I tell you this story in order for you to maybe learn from my experience (if you can possibly ignore my age for a second). You're a moderator yet I think there's a big gap in the advice you offer, and it makes me angry in a way. I'd hate another young ambitious future pilot to be discouraged from a dream job in aviation after coming on the wannabe's forum here at pprune and being faced with the Wee Weasley Welshman. I have wisely surpassed previous comments you have offered, and have never, and will never, look back.
"It’s a much bigger handicap being say 19 rather than 29."
Maybe, in offering experience you shouldn't make these hurtful comparisons. I understand you're trying to help the original poster in making his decision, and offering him great advice but in return don't disown us youngsters...I could be flying your aircraft next year (still.....18).
Anyway, my words of advice to the original poster.
Look at this way. Do you want to spend the rest of your life thinking "What if" or "I wish I....". I'm not telling you to go for it but think way ahead. Think about the risks. When I was summing up what to do I made a list of good against bad on a piece of paper. I made out a strategic career plan and up to now I'm about 3 months behind schedule but I've got all the ticks in the right boxes.
Think of it this way, if you start now, and finish say age 32...you've still got potentially 23 years left of flying in you! I think that's exceptionally reasonable for any reasonably sized outfit as I've seen guy's as old as 35 make it. However, I'm not the person reading your CV or offering jobs out.
If really want it that much and think positive then it will work! Just have a solid plan and prepare for those bad times (not many pennies, rejection letters etc).
Very best of luck.
cheers
obk
Last edited by OBK!; 9th Dec 2003 at 02:16.
Wee Weasley Welshman
OBK!
I still find it upsetting to see that you have this "thing" against young pilots. Throughout your time with pprune I've noticed that you've debated against those like myself. I'll still be 18 when I get my frozen ATPL and I've had people praise about my age. This is mainly from the cargo outfit I work for but I've also had many cheerful comments from those in the passenger business.
Still? Never mentioned it before. Nothing against young pilots unless they are hopefully 18 and female... I was 16 when I went solo, 17 with my PPL and 19 as an instructor. Wooooo, I really hate young pilots.. Not. Well done on you achievement of a frozen ATPL CPL IR at age 18. That is what you have - yes?
I currently work for an agency, seconded to a worldwide cargo company to handle boxes, freight, packages etc. I travel 170 miles a day to make the 5 night shifts a week and get paid hourly and not that much. The money I earn goes towards paying board, petrol, car maintenance, food and a large loan. So as it stands, during the night I work, during the day I fly (another 60 mile round trip on the mile ticker). It's not a job for me, it's an opportunity and it's what I feel I have to do to get where I want.
Yes and I sold ice-cream off a bike in the afternoon then ran to the pub to work behind the bar until midnight just so I could get up in the morning to work in a kitchen until going back to the ice cream bike. All to pay for my ATPL groundschool and CPL course. Most Professional pilots have a much harder background often involving having a wife and kids whilst funding their own training and job hunt. If you are going to play the hard working merit card make sure you have a strong hand.
You talk about acne, mom's picking ties and not being able to "gel" with older people. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury you describe of having a mom to pick me a tie, and my acne isn't that bad. I've only just started shaving in fact and get Id'd every time I go out to socialise. However, during the past 2 weeks I had to "gel" with about 4 people more than twice my age over 2 interviews for a highly respectable vacancy in operations control for the airline I handle boxes for in the bellys of aircraft. I'll be communicating with pilots, again, more than twice my age upfront and over the phone. I'll be part of the team that organises where they will go, if they can go, when they will go, and for how long.
Acne is not your fault. Tie picking taste at age 18 is like good beef - very rare. Sounds like you are gaining excellent experience.
Last Friday I got the phone call I wanted to here for a long time.
Spelling
They offered me the job in full knowledge that in the next 6-18 months I am going to have a frozen ATPL. Now why would they do this? I know I wasn't the only one who applied to this vacancy (in fact I have it on good authority that my competition was quiet fierce but I don't want to reason why on the forum for obvious reasons).
Unusual to find fierceness in dulcet tones.
I tell you this story in order for you to maybe learn from my experience (if you can possibly ignore my age for a second). You're a moderator yet I think there's a big gap in the advice you offer, and it makes me angry in a way. I'd hate another young ambitious future pilot to be discouraged from a dream job in aviation after coming on the wannabe's forum here at pprune and being faced with the Wee Weasley Welshman. I have wisely surpassed previous comments you have offered, and have never, and will never, look back.
Happy to ignore your age - I trained many teenagers to fly to CPL/IR standard for various airlines.
"It’s a much bigger handicap being say 19 rather than 29."
Maybe, in offering experience you shouldn't make these hurtful comparisons. I understand you're trying to help the original poster in making his decision, and offering him great advice but in return don't disown us youngsters...I could be flying your aircraft next year (still.....18).
Why are you hurt by the truth? I am not disowning anybody - I represent no particular group wider than Wannabes. It is - if at all - a bigger handicap being 19 than 29 when it comes to an airline interview. My belief. Should you present me with the simple case of do you want to be 19 or 29 then I would choose the elder age. I think it would be more advantageous. Simply you will probably interact better with the likely interviewers. Perhaps at 18 you believe this to be false. Maybe I would have done so as well when I was a teenager. Now I am pushing 30 I realise that age brings experience. Don't wish to be particularly patronising but in ten years time I think you will probably agree with me.
Anyway, my words of advice to the original poster.
Look at this way. Do you want to spend the rest of your life thinking "What if" or "I wish I....". I'm not telling you to go for it but think way ahead. Think about the risks. When I was summing up what to do I made a list of good against bad on a piece of paper. I made out a strategic career plan and up to now I'm about 3 months behind schedule but I've got all the ticks in the right boxes.
Sound advice
Think of it this way, if you start now, and finish say age 32...you've still got potentially 23 years left of flying in you! I think that's exceptionally reasonable for any reasonably sized outfit as I've seen guy's as old as 35 make it. However, I'm not the person reading your CV or offering jobs out.
If really want it that much and think positive then it will work! Just have a solid plan and prepare for those bad times (not many pennies, rejection letters etc).
Very best of luck.
cheers
obk
Cheers, WWW
OBK!
I still find it upsetting to see that you have this "thing" against young pilots. Throughout your time with pprune I've noticed that you've debated against those like myself. I'll still be 18 when I get my frozen ATPL and I've had people praise about my age. This is mainly from the cargo outfit I work for but I've also had many cheerful comments from those in the passenger business.
Still? Never mentioned it before. Nothing against young pilots unless they are hopefully 18 and female... I was 16 when I went solo, 17 with my PPL and 19 as an instructor. Wooooo, I really hate young pilots.. Not. Well done on you achievement of a frozen ATPL CPL IR at age 18. That is what you have - yes?
I currently work for an agency, seconded to a worldwide cargo company to handle boxes, freight, packages etc. I travel 170 miles a day to make the 5 night shifts a week and get paid hourly and not that much. The money I earn goes towards paying board, petrol, car maintenance, food and a large loan. So as it stands, during the night I work, during the day I fly (another 60 mile round trip on the mile ticker). It's not a job for me, it's an opportunity and it's what I feel I have to do to get where I want.
Yes and I sold ice-cream off a bike in the afternoon then ran to the pub to work behind the bar until midnight just so I could get up in the morning to work in a kitchen until going back to the ice cream bike. All to pay for my ATPL groundschool and CPL course. Most Professional pilots have a much harder background often involving having a wife and kids whilst funding their own training and job hunt. If you are going to play the hard working merit card make sure you have a strong hand.
You talk about acne, mom's picking ties and not being able to "gel" with older people. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury you describe of having a mom to pick me a tie, and my acne isn't that bad. I've only just started shaving in fact and get Id'd every time I go out to socialise. However, during the past 2 weeks I had to "gel" with about 4 people more than twice my age over 2 interviews for a highly respectable vacancy in operations control for the airline I handle boxes for in the bellys of aircraft. I'll be communicating with pilots, again, more than twice my age upfront and over the phone. I'll be part of the team that organises where they will go, if they can go, when they will go, and for how long.
Acne is not your fault. Tie picking taste at age 18 is like good beef - very rare. Sounds like you are gaining excellent experience.
Last Friday I got the phone call I wanted to here for a long time.
Spelling
They offered me the job in full knowledge that in the next 6-18 months I am going to have a frozen ATPL. Now why would they do this? I know I wasn't the only one who applied to this vacancy (in fact I have it on good authority that my competition was quiet fierce but I don't want to reason why on the forum for obvious reasons).
Unusual to find fierceness in dulcet tones.
I tell you this story in order for you to maybe learn from my experience (if you can possibly ignore my age for a second). You're a moderator yet I think there's a big gap in the advice you offer, and it makes me angry in a way. I'd hate another young ambitious future pilot to be discouraged from a dream job in aviation after coming on the wannabe's forum here at pprune and being faced with the Wee Weasley Welshman. I have wisely surpassed previous comments you have offered, and have never, and will never, look back.
Happy to ignore your age - I trained many teenagers to fly to CPL/IR standard for various airlines.
"It’s a much bigger handicap being say 19 rather than 29."
Maybe, in offering experience you shouldn't make these hurtful comparisons. I understand you're trying to help the original poster in making his decision, and offering him great advice but in return don't disown us youngsters...I could be flying your aircraft next year (still.....18).
Why are you hurt by the truth? I am not disowning anybody - I represent no particular group wider than Wannabes. It is - if at all - a bigger handicap being 19 than 29 when it comes to an airline interview. My belief. Should you present me with the simple case of do you want to be 19 or 29 then I would choose the elder age. I think it would be more advantageous. Simply you will probably interact better with the likely interviewers. Perhaps at 18 you believe this to be false. Maybe I would have done so as well when I was a teenager. Now I am pushing 30 I realise that age brings experience. Don't wish to be particularly patronising but in ten years time I think you will probably agree with me.
Anyway, my words of advice to the original poster.
Look at this way. Do you want to spend the rest of your life thinking "What if" or "I wish I....". I'm not telling you to go for it but think way ahead. Think about the risks. When I was summing up what to do I made a list of good against bad on a piece of paper. I made out a strategic career plan and up to now I'm about 3 months behind schedule but I've got all the ticks in the right boxes.
Sound advice
Think of it this way, if you start now, and finish say age 32...you've still got potentially 23 years left of flying in you! I think that's exceptionally reasonable for any reasonably sized outfit as I've seen guy's as old as 35 make it. However, I'm not the person reading your CV or offering jobs out.
If really want it that much and think positive then it will work! Just have a solid plan and prepare for those bad times (not many pennies, rejection letters etc).
Very best of luck.
cheers
obk
Cheers, WWW
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Well for what its Worth, I got my first job 4 yrs ago at the good ole age of 29!!
It was on Shorts 3-60 and now I fly a 737.
So if you have the will there a w????????????????????
Good Luck!
So if you have the will there a w????????????????????
Good Luck!
