Eagle Aviation Europe
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EAE/Noor?whatever
Have you guys not got the message yet. I worked for Eagle Aviation and it was a complete nightmare until it finished in April. They have been getting a very hard time from the DGAC who hated them because they flew from JED and were outside of their control. They wanted rid of the family that ran it and when they got the opportunity they got their claws in and made sure at every turn there would be another obstacle. This feud goes back many years and has been very bloody. The chances ot this company starting up in France is I'm afraid to say, remote.
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Join Date: Apr 2000
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The status of Noor Airways (ex-Eagle Aviation Europe, SAS)
For anyone interested/connected with this contract,
I am one of the B747 contract pilots waiting for the final process to be completed before the DGAC issues the AOC and licence for the B747-400. I have spent some weeks with this airline and have been able to view it from the inside. So far, we have 2 B747-400's, one in Chateroux, France, and one in Bournemouth, UK. The first aircraft has been the star of the show at the recent announcements in Tirana and it was good to see it flying. From the reports from those who did fly it, it was a nice aircraft to fly...probably because the pilots were soooo good!
but also because it's ex-Singapore Airlines.
It has been, I'm sure you will see from all these posts, a very long and painful process, and one that is still on-going. I am sure the new owner, a very competent businessman by the looks of things, also believed it had gone on far too long. The management team has changed considerably more than once since the start and is still in a period of finding it's feet. I would not be surprised if further changes occur before this operation begins to earn money for the owner. I hope his nerve holds out a bit longer as he seems to have a vision for the operation which I would dearly like to hear about.
Much has been said on this forum that is either based on speculation or innuendo. Unless you are one of the 'office-wallers', or knows one, I cannot see how you can 'tell us' what is going on. Without having all the facts it is difficult to know what the nature of the problems have been to get to this stage. There are people who know more than me but from my own 'limited' observations, the problems seem to stem from a inherited cultural nature and one of a skills-set required for a new start-up with the introduction of a very specialised aircraft (B747).
I am not sure if the hard-working staff at EAE/Noor, of which there are many who have also had to suffer, read this post (it could be very depressing for them!) so I am potentially exposing myself to some ridicule and criticism from them even responding to this forum, but I felt that some comments were getting a little too OTT and the big picture was getting lost. Whilst I fully support the dedicated people in St Nazaire, let's be clear about a few things that are fact before anything else is said.
1. Money has not been paid for the B747 pilots for 3 months; not sure about the B757 guys but it would be good to get that confirmed by one or two of them. Granted, we have spent a lot of time at home over those months, as we have been instructed to do so by the airline, but we have also been training in the offices on-and-off as well. Salaries and expenses for this time are still outstanding. We have not been able to apply for other jobs (and so gain income to pay the mortgage!) as we are infrequently, but repeatedly, told that the company needs us and to "hang on until next week when we should have some news for you!". This has become to sound like a 'broken-record'! Looks like my 4-yr old son won't get the Christmas he was hoping for...
2. The process of obtaining an AOC and putting complex types on it is a very stringent and demanding one, especially with the French authorities at this time (post Air France's recent run of accidents). With the right skills and a good relationship with the Authority (DGAC) it can be done. I have already given you my observations and indicated why I believe it has taken so long, but there maybe many other, small but influential, factors outside of my field of vision, that has contributed to this incredibly frustrating delay. One post suggested a poor relationship with the DGAC. Can they elaborate on that?
3. What little information we do have indirectly from the airline has told us that the licence for the B747 is due sometime this week or next. The final paperwork has been presented to the DGAC last week and it is now in their hands to approve and issue the licence. The B757 licence, I believe, is already issued...? Anyone on the 757 fleet care to confirm that? Once that is done then we can get back to business. The owner may well feel then he is in a position to release yet more funds to pay outstanding debts and the pilots can return to the office to complete the process and get the aircraft flying as soon as possible. However, we were in this same position in September (15th?) and were told then that when the AOC came we would have our money and be back in the training rooms! That event and date passed and nothing happened...no money, no training. The AOC then got suspended for the first time to allow new management to take up their roles...do we see history repeating itself again?
The biggest problem EAE/Noor has is COMMUNICATION! Either a lack of the command of English or an inability to recognise when and what to communicate. Either way, the result is a perception of a lack of ability and knowledge of how to run an airline, let alone on how to start one up, which is what this is! Eagle/Noor Airways is a Start-Up airline. It is suffering many, if too many, of the issues start-up's have to deal with and how it communicates will need to be seriously addressed if the airline is to continue.
The resources available to the airline have NOT been used as they should and it has seen by many, close to the front, as 'bunker-mentality' and 'Empire-building' at the same time! It feels almost as if there is a fear of being shown up and so have decided the best thing is not to ask for help but to struggle on regardless. A bit like 'get-home-itis', which always leads to failure. This will need to change as well if the costs are to be controlled and resources not wasted.
If you intend to apply for this airline, either directly or indirectly via an agency, be sure you have all the facts. Ask the difficult questions. Demand to be told how the Company does it's business because, at the end of the day, when you are at 35,000 feet you are going to be on the front-line, in the trenches, and will need to know what you are working for!
For my part, I, along with my fellow pilots, will be asking and demanding. There is a very important need to rebuild the relationships with the workforce, both in France and with the crew-community, to ensure any kind of success for this airline. The reputation of an airline in this industry is difficult to shake off, hence the name change away from Eagle (I'm told it had such a bad name in the Middle-East it was never going to succeed!) to Noor. I hope this strategy pays off as it makes a lot of sense.
So there you have it. I welcome responses of a constructive nature as, at the end of the day, we all want this organisation to succeed and to build into something to be proud of and where you want to work.
We cannot say that of this organisation at the moment.
I am one of the B747 contract pilots waiting for the final process to be completed before the DGAC issues the AOC and licence for the B747-400. I have spent some weeks with this airline and have been able to view it from the inside. So far, we have 2 B747-400's, one in Chateroux, France, and one in Bournemouth, UK. The first aircraft has been the star of the show at the recent announcements in Tirana and it was good to see it flying. From the reports from those who did fly it, it was a nice aircraft to fly...probably because the pilots were soooo good!
but also because it's ex-Singapore Airlines.It has been, I'm sure you will see from all these posts, a very long and painful process, and one that is still on-going. I am sure the new owner, a very competent businessman by the looks of things, also believed it had gone on far too long. The management team has changed considerably more than once since the start and is still in a period of finding it's feet. I would not be surprised if further changes occur before this operation begins to earn money for the owner. I hope his nerve holds out a bit longer as he seems to have a vision for the operation which I would dearly like to hear about.
Much has been said on this forum that is either based on speculation or innuendo. Unless you are one of the 'office-wallers', or knows one, I cannot see how you can 'tell us' what is going on. Without having all the facts it is difficult to know what the nature of the problems have been to get to this stage. There are people who know more than me but from my own 'limited' observations, the problems seem to stem from a inherited cultural nature and one of a skills-set required for a new start-up with the introduction of a very specialised aircraft (B747).
I am not sure if the hard-working staff at EAE/Noor, of which there are many who have also had to suffer, read this post (it could be very depressing for them!) so I am potentially exposing myself to some ridicule and criticism from them even responding to this forum, but I felt that some comments were getting a little too OTT and the big picture was getting lost. Whilst I fully support the dedicated people in St Nazaire, let's be clear about a few things that are fact before anything else is said.
1. Money has not been paid for the B747 pilots for 3 months; not sure about the B757 guys but it would be good to get that confirmed by one or two of them. Granted, we have spent a lot of time at home over those months, as we have been instructed to do so by the airline, but we have also been training in the offices on-and-off as well. Salaries and expenses for this time are still outstanding. We have not been able to apply for other jobs (and so gain income to pay the mortgage!) as we are infrequently, but repeatedly, told that the company needs us and to "hang on until next week when we should have some news for you!". This has become to sound like a 'broken-record'! Looks like my 4-yr old son won't get the Christmas he was hoping for...
2. The process of obtaining an AOC and putting complex types on it is a very stringent and demanding one, especially with the French authorities at this time (post Air France's recent run of accidents). With the right skills and a good relationship with the Authority (DGAC) it can be done. I have already given you my observations and indicated why I believe it has taken so long, but there maybe many other, small but influential, factors outside of my field of vision, that has contributed to this incredibly frustrating delay. One post suggested a poor relationship with the DGAC. Can they elaborate on that?
3. What little information we do have indirectly from the airline has told us that the licence for the B747 is due sometime this week or next. The final paperwork has been presented to the DGAC last week and it is now in their hands to approve and issue the licence. The B757 licence, I believe, is already issued...? Anyone on the 757 fleet care to confirm that? Once that is done then we can get back to business. The owner may well feel then he is in a position to release yet more funds to pay outstanding debts and the pilots can return to the office to complete the process and get the aircraft flying as soon as possible. However, we were in this same position in September (15th?) and were told then that when the AOC came we would have our money and be back in the training rooms! That event and date passed and nothing happened...no money, no training. The AOC then got suspended for the first time to allow new management to take up their roles...do we see history repeating itself again?
Fundamental to any organisation is both communication and the use of the available resources in the right way.
The biggest problem EAE/Noor has is COMMUNICATION! Either a lack of the command of English or an inability to recognise when and what to communicate. Either way, the result is a perception of a lack of ability and knowledge of how to run an airline, let alone on how to start one up, which is what this is! Eagle/Noor Airways is a Start-Up airline. It is suffering many, if too many, of the issues start-up's have to deal with and how it communicates will need to be seriously addressed if the airline is to continue.
The resources available to the airline have NOT been used as they should and it has seen by many, close to the front, as 'bunker-mentality' and 'Empire-building' at the same time! It feels almost as if there is a fear of being shown up and so have decided the best thing is not to ask for help but to struggle on regardless. A bit like 'get-home-itis', which always leads to failure. This will need to change as well if the costs are to be controlled and resources not wasted.
If you intend to apply for this airline, either directly or indirectly via an agency, be sure you have all the facts. Ask the difficult questions. Demand to be told how the Company does it's business because, at the end of the day, when you are at 35,000 feet you are going to be on the front-line, in the trenches, and will need to know what you are working for!
For my part, I, along with my fellow pilots, will be asking and demanding. There is a very important need to rebuild the relationships with the workforce, both in France and with the crew-community, to ensure any kind of success for this airline. The reputation of an airline in this industry is difficult to shake off, hence the name change away from Eagle (I'm told it had such a bad name in the Middle-East it was never going to succeed!) to Noor. I hope this strategy pays off as it makes a lot of sense.
So there you have it. I welcome responses of a constructive nature as, at the end of the day, we all want this organisation to succeed and to build into something to be proud of and where you want to work.
We cannot say that of this organisation at the moment.
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I believe that Noor Airways already exists.... 
Its a Middle Eastern version of Phuket Air, although i haven’t seen them flying yet.
Mutt
Its a Middle Eastern version of Phuket Air, although i haven’t seen them flying yet.Mutt
Last edited by mutt; 9th Nov 2009 at 16:57.
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Evsen group is behind both Noor Airways.....
As for the rest no comment salaries of ground staff still not paid for the french noor airways.
For how long will it continue without a licence......
As for the rest no comment salaries of ground staff still not paid for the french noor airways.
For how long will it continue without a licence......
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1995 B 747-400 Need Acmi Immediate Delivery
DEAR FRIENDS
PLEASE INFORM MR. ALI EVSEN OR THE COMMERCIAL MANAGER OR CEO OF NOOR TO CONTACT ME ASAP I AM READY TO WET LEASE / ACMI THE SUBJECT 1995 B 747-400 FOR 300BHRS MONTHLY FOR TWO MONTHS AS OF NOV 14TH 2009
SO YOU WILL BE HAPPY TO FLY SOON
CENGIZ KAYMAZ
[email protected]
+90 505 4252323
+90 533 6404723
PLEASE INFORM MR. ALI EVSEN OR THE COMMERCIAL MANAGER OR CEO OF NOOR TO CONTACT ME ASAP I AM READY TO WET LEASE / ACMI THE SUBJECT 1995 B 747-400 FOR 300BHRS MONTHLY FOR TWO MONTHS AS OF NOV 14TH 2009
SO YOU WILL BE HAPPY TO FLY SOON
CENGIZ KAYMAZ
[email protected]
+90 505 4252323
+90 533 6404723
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ACMI
Please ask them quote for our urgent ACMI demand for 2 months, who can I talk with or can anyone call me asap +90 555 5471777 [email protected] Cengiz