Bae ATPF
 

2 Bae ATPF large freight door cargo aircraft arriving in Indonesia this month.

Just wondering if anyone here has flown or maintained the cargo or pax version in the past and what the good , bad and quirky points of the aircraft are from a pilot's and engineering perspective.

Should be an advert in Flight International this week looking for crews and engineers on short term contracts until the locals can operate independently, be prepared to work in Irian Jaya :bored:

Bae ATPF
 

I hear they will be joining PT Deraya Air, what will be the operation please ?

General cargo ops around Papua and eastern Indonesia

ATPF:

ATP = "Another Technical Problem".

I wonder what the "F" could possibly stand for! :)

First Flight Couriers in India Used to operate a few of those ATP's a couple of years ago, But stopped their operations of the ATP's due to relative dispatchability and low cruising speed compared to the other turbo props in this category.

Maybe some of those will be transferred to Indonesia. :ok:

Indonesia would be ideal country for ATP ops, this is one of a few countries where ATP have a chance to show very good dispatch reliability, because anything less than failed engine would not delay a departure, and engines are quite ok on this aircraft ;)

ATP
 

10 years ago I urged the BAe management at Prestwick to convert an airframe to cargo and start selling freighters. They would not stand the cost of a conversion, saying they will wait until a customer is prepared to pay for one. Seems the only ones flying now ARE cargo config.

Shame.

It's quiet, doesn't really use fuel and has a decent payload. It is fairly slow, but why does freight care what time it gets to the next warehouse?


It has excellent despatch records once the engineers and crew know what they are doing. Like any addition to a fleet, there may be initial teething problems, not due to the aircraft.

I’m a B1 Technician, working on the ATP in north Sweden at the moment, if the aircraft is looked after, it will give you very few problems, the biggest problems we have is replacement trim for the cabin, on a freighter, you don’t have that problem.

You would be suprised but the freight carried in Europe onboard of ATPF is indeed cares about the time of getting into next warehouse. Let alone the fact express mail operators considering on-time departure as within 1 minute from schedule, not 10 or 15 min like pax airlines.

Phileas, my dear sir.

ATP - Advanced Technical Problem if you please.

The problems are well known and just need proper spending to keep at bay. Freighters ? the purse may not open that often but who knows ?

On a lighter note, the engineer run pilot course ( always to be avoided if you have the choice as a pilot ) in 1989 at Woodford produced the following gem.
The powers that were, looked at the prototype after being removed from the hanger and decided that the prop tips "looked" to be too close to the ground.

Mmmh. Composite props. Mmmh. Difficult to change them. Best make the nose leg longer. Which was done before flight in the best Tiger Moth traditions.

First take off on gear retract ? The nose leg wouldn`t fit in the bay and jammed.

The cure ? put a bend in the nose leg for retraction.

Boeing and Airbus eat your hearts out.

So help me, absolutely true.

non iron, I don’t want to contradict you, but the extended leg was fitted for the US market, to enable the aircraft to be used on an airbridge, not to make the props further from the ground as you suggest.
The major problem with the ATP, was that little money was spent on development of the aircraft or tooling, which resulted in a lot of problems in the early days, from which it received its bad reputation – ATP Another technical problem or another thousand pounds

West Air have a few and seems to be happy!? Are they making money or will they in the near future swich to something main stream.
And by the way; Will they be needing any pilots soon???? Off topic, but I'm bored........:cool:

This seems to be a problem with most Bae aircraft , then they spend the next 10 years issuing service bulletins and airworthiness directives and then they finally complete the design process 10 years later :)

Yes but they will only be offering short term contracts to check and training captians for 6 to 12 months

10 local pilots have already done the training at Oxford in the UK

Masking tape.
You may well be right, an interesting angle certainly. No pun intended.
All l know is half my course was Air Wisconsin management ( the first US customer ) and airbridge access was never mentioned.
The ground instructor, who delivered that homily to us all, signed my pass certificate and presented my ATP tie.

On balance, well...., l really have to believe him.

No offence.

Any thoughts then on the type being grounded in`89 ?
Could it have been plastic trim problems ?

ATP
 

Mrs GGR got lots of hours, days, weeks in these as CC in the good old days and has offered ''Another take-off postponed''.

GGR

:) a new one for me.

Long Nose Leg
 

I was an instructor with BAe for the ATP and still am an instructor for the ATP. The long nose leg was fitted to give an air bridging capability, regardless of whether anyone actually used it in that way. Later aircraft had a shorter nose leg and the legs are interchangable.
The leg does not have any sort of kink or bend in it. There is a shortening mechanism regardless of which leg is fitted.
From what you were told I reckon I could take a real good guess at which instructor you had.

Thankyou Blue Coyote for trusting my word.

l appreciate it.

ATP Ferry
 

G-JEMD arrived Malta from CVT late this pm dept tomorrow on ferry to Deraya Air Taxi .G-JEME will follow it later on any more info appreciated .
thks

The ATPs will be arriving in Halim where they will put on the Indonesian register , they will be working a general cargo run Sentani (Jayapura) to Wamena.

Some expat crews and check and training captains will be used for 6 months while the local pilots build experience on type , 10 local pilots (Shorts 360 and Casa 212 captains and FOs) have already done the ATP sim training at Oxford.

I had to laugh this morning , this was on PPrune before I got an email on the ferry flight progress from the UK.

The ATP was supposed to leave on Monday but was held up due to a fault with one of the engines , turned out to be a microswitch . The aircraft have been parked for a couple of years and were fine during test flights and then when it came to do the ferry it spat the dummy.

ATP Ferry
 

just left to SSH egypt

Hi Malcolm , are you sitting in the tower at malta or what ? :)

G-JEME should be coming through in a couple of weeks also

Quote:
Hi Malcolm , are you sitting in the tower at malta or what ? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/smile.gif

G-JEME should be coming through in a couple of weeks also

I wish i was sitting there in the AC .We also had SE-DRN Bae146-200F to Indonesia a few weeks ago and I can see that there is another Bae146 routing as below:


BAe 146 -200 2139 PK- Aviastar Mandiri delivery 28-29jul09 YYC-YTH-YFB-KEF-MMX, C-reg ex C-GRNU

Yes , Indo is rapidly becoming the new hot market for BAE-146 and RJ due to the excellent short field capability. The only issue is they have to be less than 20 yrs old to be put on the PK register for the first time.

Most of these aircraft are headed for East Indonesia (Papua).

Aviastar totalled their 146-200 a few months ago at Wamena , that airport has swallowed a 146 and a C-130 this year.

do you still have any B732s and B727s flying in Indonesia?that country is heaven for aviation!!

Hope you've got a good spare stock together with aircraft. ATP parts available only in Europe and some non-aircraft specific in US, so any shipment will take 3-4 days to Jayapura.

Just out of interest what your performance calcs suggesting for available take-off and landing weight on typical day at Wamena?

Tri-MG airlines is still flying B727 cargo , most of the pax 727's were parked in 2005 / 2006 and are in the process of being scrapped at Cengkareng now.

Some 732s still flying with Sriwijaya , Air Fast and others.

My office overlooks the runway at Halim and it's always great to watch the 727 take off and feel the ground shake like it did yesterday afternoon :ok:

Cargo one , I don't have the numbers on hand but from memory the ATPs are down about 750 kg from max payload for Wamena. I helped put the deal together but not involved in the daily operations other than checking up periodically on the 2 ATPs for an overseas party .

The aircraft is chock full of spares and consumables being ferried out with the aircraft and we have a good supply line for additional items.

Your wrong there mate. Quiet wrong

are they planning to add more ATPF's in the future? last count was 32 ATPs still flying... do correct me if i'm wrong. :ok:

Not too many ATPFs around on the market , might be some ATP pax later on.

Dunzilla, close to 60 of 64 ever built aircraft are in Europe and spares are there as well. Sometimes you can see part numbers available somewhere else including Far East and Australia, but usually they are in "removed as serviceabe" condition without suitable paperwork. Unless BAE has positioned part of their stock to different location, I don't see who & where have lots of ATP parts there.

ATP Ferry
 

Any idea if arrived pls this GJEMD>?
Thks
Malc

Hi Malcolm,

It arrived at Halim Perdanakusma about 1.15am on Saturday morning.

thks alot my friend

malc

Didn't claim to be 'lots' but there is a considerable parts around the Asian region to be sufficient in providing stock to an Indonesian carrier.

As far as I know, BAe hold very little in terms of parts, whereas Westair own majority.

G-JEME launching from UK tomorrow .... ETA Jakarta on Sunday

The ATPF is how I imagine an old HS-748 would come out of an episode of 'Pimp my Plane' except they stuck the sun roof on the side of the aircraft

Infact arrival Malta today 1600 suppose

Malc