I'd say Sky hit the nail on the head with the exception of the uphill struggle to move from an FO position to Captain. It's will be that and more, in fact I seriously doubt it will happen any time soon. But, depending on where you're coming from, and if you can spare 3 years out of your life, the pay is great for an FO, compared to working at a commuter in the USA. The experience is good, plus after this, every job will be a piece of cake. Again, it's just my opinion.

hi,does anyone can explain how is the interview process?and what kind of questions do you expect to get?

regards

volare 737 check you pm

I did JMC - nothing in there my friend

do it again sorry!!!!

Just make it clear please, do the PIC and FO make the landings and not PICC?
How is the life in Shanzen? Is it good for the family?

Pay clarification
 

Can anyone please comment on the pay they published, whether the flight pay guaranteed of 65 hours is including the basic? or is it the basic plus the figure of the guaranteed hours, +- 100000 RMB. ?
its a bit confusing.
Cheers

Unpaid fuel bills
 

flylikeaneagle, you seem to like dealing in rumors and hearsay. Any proof to your statement about your last post?

I personally try to stay away from rumors, etc. As for the motivational issue, well I guess everyone has their reasons, mine is to try and give some people who may be interested some insight into the place. Maybe others will respond as to their reasons.
Frankly, anyone who makes a life changing decision based upon what someone posts on an anonymous internet forum isn't the best and brightest anyway. That said, there is some information here that you won't get in a screening, or that maybe will allow someone to ask informed questions before they commit to joining a company.
About the PICC's making landings, all the pilots make landings. Everyone is required to maintain currency, the PICC's fly from the right seat.
The salaries quoted are BEFORE taxes, when they say the the company pays the tax it is a true statement, literally. The company withholds the money from your check and pays the tax for you, the Chinese tax rates vary depending on how much you make. I would say the average is somewhere between 25-35% of "taxable salary". Housing allowance, medical insurance, per diem, etc are excluded. Currently, the guarantee is 80 hrs, although this is something that could change at any moment, as the contract does specify a 65 hr guarantee.
According to the central gov't, Shenzhen is now the most expensive place to live in the PRC. They recently raised the minimum wage in the region to compensate.
About the screening, I am not sure it is something you can prepare for, except to be ready to take the CAAC ATPL exam. If you try to "scam" the psyche exam, I would be shocked if you make it to the second phase. The sim profile is pretty standard and they are just looking to make sure your "experience" matches your performance level. The medical is to put it lightly is a "life experience" to say the least.
At the end of the day, you need to realize that you are a foreigner, working in a foreign country that probably has many different cultural aspects than what you are accustomed. You will not change the way they do business, you need to adapt or not come in the first place. That doesn't mean that it is impossible to make some constructive changes, just that change moves at the speed of cold molasses. :ugh:

Nicely said Skyryder. That was informative and instructive, cheers.

Just a question though, I applied appoximately 6 months ago and so far heard nothing. I updated my application around 3 weeks ago. So I suppose either I haven't been considered or they are not taking on FO's right now?

Anything new at Jade? Hiring, firing, leaving at will....pilot moral?
Are they still offering commuting contracts? Still little to no chance of an upgrade?
They say no news is good news...or is there just no one left to spill the beans. Any new FO's willing to share some gen? Sitting on the fence about putting in an application so any heads up gen will be appreciated.

Hi,
I´m also interested If there are some news...Nice to know would be If there are plans for European bases and If not,maybe somebody here who can tell me if living in Germany,if there is a possibility to commute or get active flights from FRA or LEJ to get a reasonable time off at home? Also,how much net would be left per month in EUR or USD,including all allowances and per diem?
Thank you!

Jade conditions
 

As with any airline, there is always the highs and lows and currently Jade is trying to make things better to stem the loss of pilots. The best thing about Jade, the training is fairly short, in comparison with other Chinese companies, the pay is pretty good, as for an FO, the in the bank amount is around 10K USD and for a PICC, it's around 11K USD. Don't ask me for a break down, that's in the pocket total. FO's upgrading, they are trying but the Government keeps putting up a wall. Some of the PICC's have upgraded recently. Since things have been at a kind of low, it's probably not a bad time, if you've been considering, as there is no doubt the conditions will start to improve. Right now, expect 10 days off per month in a row and that's burning two days vacation. There is not any base other than Shenzhen however, they have been good about giving guys living in Europe, the opportunity to start and stop there. If you're living in FRA, you might get off in AMS or FRA, it's a toss up but they do work with you and since there has been quite a few guys leave, I'm thinking they might try just a bit harder. However, with that said, I've put enough time in there and listened to empty promises, I'm not going to hang around any longer than the next decent job offer. But that's me, not the pilot group as a whole, which is probably happy in their own way.

Thanx Jaz,for the quick reply!
In an earlier post you said,that somebody from Germany could count on 15 days at home per month,is this still the case,and if yes also for new-joiners?
Greetings...

grist for the mill..
 

A. Jack and Talon,

I am not sure about recruiting for F/O's. I know they are conducting a screening in FRA this month (as per the web site) and I know they are focusing on pilots with type or at least time on the airplane. I suspect this is to curb the training time to the line and also deal with the inability to upgrade issue.
I am not sure if the moronic action the idiot at Juneyao just pulled is going to affect the ability to employ foreign pilots on a nationwide scale or not. It is a tight spot for sure. I heard that the number of citizen pilots that are not under contract to a national carrier is a really small number, and the airline industry continues to grow. I know the CAAC wants to make a statement about how things will be done in China, but I also know that if they make it too hard, the industry will suffer.
Anyway, the truth is that a number of pilots have left Jade, and are continuing to leave. Most of the guys that work at Jade do/will have other options and as their contracts expire will have to make a decision as what to do.
Most of those who have left have been F/O's that were told when they joined they would be able to upgrade. Recently a number of PIC's have left as well, mostly because of working conditions (or lack thereof) and the fact the compensation package has stagnated. There maybe some increases coming soon, but that is all speculation.
The roster has gotten a lot more stable and there is currently a new flight management staff in place. The Chief Pilot has some experience in this type of operation which is cause for hope as he is the first to have experience.
Just so there is no confusion, there is not now, nor will there be (IMHO) a domicile anywhere outside of China. What IS in place is a rostering package that allows a pilot to begin and end the block days off in one of the European destinations and rostering will try to work with you to make the city closest to your home (if you live in Europe or want to commute across the Atlantic).
Jade has rationalized its route structure, which has made for fewer enroute delays and more reliability. However, the next 3-4 months are going to be a real challenge for the rostering staff as well as the pilot group. The pilot losses are at the critical stage, at least that is my opinion and the increased flying heading into the Western holiday season is going to put a strain on resources.
If you are interested, put in the paper, follow it up and stay on them. However, come here with eyes wide open. The Chinese society has a way of doing things that has "worked" for them for centuries. They are not likely to change to accommodate a small group of "temporary" workers, no matter how much "we" think they need to change. If you can't live with that, then do yourself a favor and stay away. If you can, you may find yourself working with a good bunch of guys, in a very interesting part of the world. For sure, the word "boring" will rarely enter your lexicon.
One more thing, for the most part, these are just my opinions, and I am sure that you all are aware of the similarities of opinions with a certain body part. Proceed at your own peril.

Sky

Hi Guys, these posts have been very helpful. I have a quick qu about the pilot screening day for FO's in November. What is the latest? I have noted that many have commented it is no walk through, I am mainly concerned about what type of ATP qu and technical qu's. Please feel free to PM me
Cheers

Internal mail
 

Flylikeaneagle.
Why don't you get another job?, if Jade is so terrible, vote with your feet and walk away.
Can it be that you cannot find a job that pays the same money, or gives you better T&C?

You are posting internal mails on a public website, In my book that is illoyal.
I would like to keep my job at Jade, please don't contribute to making that more difficult by dragging the name of the company further into the dirt.

I try to focus on the positive aspects of my job, and life in general, it makes my day so much more enjoyable. :ok:

Everyone can tell the fleet is grounded.
Lufty said publicly they wanted an agreement over cash infusion before the end of the year.

Nothing in his post was surprising, it was clear it was coming.

He is no more disloyal than a company that isn't informing its customers of what's going on.

Let's hope an agreement can be found.

Now being reported by Flight:

Struggling Jade Cargo forced to ground 747 fleet

Reported on Carnoc
 

¹úÄÚÊ×¼ÒºÏ×Ê»õÔ˺½¿Õ¹«Ë¾Íâ·½¹É¶«ÃÈÉúÍËÒâ

Rough translation using google.


As Europe's largest aviation group, Lufthansa (Deutsche Lufthansa AG) is preparing to exit the Chinese market. Lufthansa subsidiary Lufthansa Cargo CEO Ga Nate has a logistics conference in Frankfurt, said that because the face price war, companies face of competitors, may have to opt out of the Chinese market.

It is understood that, within the meaning of Lufthansa Cargo joint venture enterprise that is the first domestic cargo airlines - Jade Cargo International Co., Ltd. (Jade Cargo International Airlines Co., Ltd., Referred to as "Jade Cargo"), a company owned by Lufthansa German investment and development company and a joint venture between Shenzhen Airlines, three were holding 25%, 24% and 51%. Currently, Germany is working with British Airways, Lufthansa and British Airways Virgin Atlantic to discuss matters relating to transfer of ownership.

Jade Cargo sailing since, and did not meet the expectations of the German Lufthansa, according to the news, "the expected revenue is less than one-fifth, and encounter difficulties in financing."

Lufthansa, Germany suffered its own financial difficulties, also contributed to the contraction of the front as soon as possible. It is understood the company's third quarter operating income of 4.94 billion euros, down over 21%. Germany's Lufthansa Group hopes to 2013, business spending will be cut 1.5 billion euros.

Industry: Domestic flight prices or the opportunity to buy a head start can be

Than-expected earnings caused by Jade Cargo is mainly due to weak global economy. World Trade Organization (WTO) data show that the debt crisis hit the global economy suffered this year, global trade is expected to grow 5.8%, compared with 14.1% increase in 2010 reduced by 7.3 percentage points.

China's air cargo market is not optimistic about the statistics from the Civil Aviation Authority, cargo and mail turnover in November declined by 9.8%, and 1-11 months, the cumulative decline of 3.4%.

Among them, the largest decrease in international routes, cargo and mail turnover in November declined by 15.9% cumulative 1-November fell 5.6%.

Jade Cargo, one of the competitors, Cathay Pacific Airways Limited of Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific Airways Limited, referred to as "Cathay Pacific"), also said that the Mainland and Hong Kong's air cargo demand continues to decline, the company's cargo in October fell by 17.5%.

The industry believes that the lack of funds in the international aviation giants had to shrink the front when the opportunity to buy the domestic flight prices can expand the market share for a head start when the market recovers.

Bloomberg also reported
 

Jade Cargo cease Ops
 

From the horse's mouth, Jade Cargo will cease operations as of January 16th. They are seeking to sell assets to British Airways.

Regards to all

Not sure what horse you're talking to, but you've got some dated and incorrect information. New schedules were just issued (Jan. 1) with departures starting out of SZX on the 16th. With regards to BA purchasing Jade, that seems implausible as they already have GSS operating on their behalf.

What's going on in Mather land China ...

Jade Cargo suspends operations | ATWOnline

is Jade just the beginning or an isolated case?

Dalian

Therefore hauling cargo in the holds of passenger aircraft as is standard practice. 3 737s is hardly competition for Jade, especially in Shenzen. Not to mention that Jade flies China-Europe.

To me, Dalian sounds like another regional China airline which will have no impact on Jade operations. Air China already has its own cargo project. I think the real issue is whether or not Jade can secure new capital to ensure continued ops. Again, 737-800s, and what little they can carry in the holds, are not competition for Jade or any other cargo only airline.

With the current economic drop and the two investing carriers already flying similar routes China/Europe etc why dilute already dropping yields. This could just be an easy option rather than making loses on every sector. When/if the economy picks up Jade with be back in the air. Thats the way i see it.

New schedules were issued Jan01, Feb01, Mar01, Apr01......
Guess what?????

Still grounded, no decisions, no reliable information, no $$$......

Very soon, no Pilots!

Not a lot of facts abound
 

I was told by a "reliable source" that the employees were paid their March salaries yesterday, about 9-10 days late.
I don't think the question is if if the airplanes will fly again, it is more a question of when. I can't imagine that 6 747-400ERF's that are practically new and registered in China will sit for too much longer. I am less sure that they will still bear the Jade logo.
It is my opinion only, that the transaction to transfer ownership of the company to Unitop has gotten bogged down in the details that were not spelled out in the MOU that was signed.
I was also told that a number of pilots have submitted resignations and either have or will be leaving soon. Given the difficulty of recruiting pilots to come to China, I suspect there are many other Chinese carriers hoping to recruit these pilots to join up.

Jade is all but dead at this point. The CEO has stopped paying the pilots. Pilots are jumping ship like flies. Sad end to a once great career.

Jade Cargo
 

All A/C still parked at PVG.

"great career" ???? You gotta be kidding..

When Lufty pulls the plug, the lights go out.:{

Didn't UniTop buy-out LH's share?

I thought the world was waiting for a decision from them whether they were going to operate the aircraft or consider other options.

The End
 

Looks like this is the end for Jade.



Jade Cargo may be liquidated as China

No option for Jade, they've filed for liquidation already and its bye bye to the operation...

Jade's 747-400 up for auction
 

Jade Cargo to Auction Three Boeing 747-400Fs on Oct. 26

makes you wonder if the asking price for planes that have been inactive for almost 4 years is realistic at almost USD 200 Million a piece.....


Jade Cargo International will auction three Boeing 747-400 freighters at a starting price of 1.32 billion yuan each on Oct. 26, according to an announcement by Shenzhen Jiajintai Auction Co., Ltd. on Sep. 9.

The auction will take place at Action Hall of Shenzhen Auction Co., Ltd., on the 7th floor of Yinli Building, No. 1, Road Hongli, Futian District, Shenzhen.

Jade Cargo will start the bidding at 1.32 billion yuan for the three 747-400Fs (including 11 engines) - Registration B-2421 (including 3 GE CF680C2B5F engines), B-2422 (including 4 GE CF680C2B5F engines) and B2423 (including 4 GE CF680C2B5F engines).

Jade Cargo was established in October 2004 as a joint venture between Shenzhen Airlines (51%), Lufthansa (25%) and German development finance institute DEG (24%), with its base at Shenzhen Bao'an International Airport (SZX). It officially announced the closure of the company and the start of liquidation proceedings effective June 4, 2012.

Jade Cargo had faced continuous financial difficulties since its foundation. It flew its last scheduled flight on Dec. 25, 2011 and grounded its fleet on Dec. 31, 2011. The cargo carrier signed a Letter of Intent (LOI) with UniTop on its restructuring in Feb. 2012. However, UniTop withdrew its LOI for the restructuring plans late in May 2012.

True, $200 million per aircraft is a lot of money, but don't forget that the 747F could potentially be a dying breed.

The last 747-8F's will be in final assembly soon, and with no new orders announced and an uncertain economy, could it be that Boeing might pull the plug on the entire 747 program and concentrate on the 777X and 787?

Second hand 747F's could become a rare and very sought-after aircraft for 747F carriers who want the capability for over-sized loads and want to keep fleet commonality.

Perhaps the Chinese can sell them to another European airline that wants to open up a joint venture in China? What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

Jade Cargo Freighters to be Auctioned Next Month - CargoForwarder Global

:ouch: