Since they bring the Doctor in from Germany, I don't think you'll be able to swing that one. What I meant by upgrade was to PIC not PICC. After being a heavy capt for about 20 years, being a PICC is kind of like retiring. The only duty you have is relieving the pilots during the flight. Sometimes you do an outside check, to help out or make a cup of coffee. Other than that, it's probably the easiest job in aviation. You're right about the pay difference, it's very little between the seats.

Hey guys, i just put in my online app (3200 tt-1600 in jet >25t-current A320) how long are call backs taking for FO interviews? Also if selected to interview is the travel ticket/ hotel paid for? Thanks!

Ric has it correct.

We only got payed for block time. I average 140-160 hrs duty time and get paid for 80 hr block time. Chinese Taxes will take away 25 - 33% of your salary.
Duty time often at limit.
Company promises upgrade by seniority but I don't see First officers upgrading. First officers say thay need 250 landing on type in China to upgrade. 250 landings = 6 - 10 year.
As a PICC you are a cruise pilot with FO pay.
Aeroplanes are filthy, mechanics have little or no experience.
You must fight for: tickets home and days off.
You will most likely fail chinese medical at sometime, loss of medical insurance will not pay out.
Roster changes many times every month.
Pilots here are very good people.
This is not a career aeroline, most all pilots here are looking for jobs elsewhere.

You must consider everything befour signing with Jade.
It is a good job, but not the best in China.
Trying to be honest not talk bad.

What is their age cutoff?:confused:
Cruise captain sounds like a soft touch.

Willie :ok:

T&C's Salaries
 

Hi, does anyone have the current T&C's, Salaries. The ones I have are from 2006 and I'm sure they have changed since then.
Thanks:)

Any news?
 

Hi guys,

This thread has been awful quiet these last few weeks...wonder if anybody has any updates or/and new info on the screenings, T&C´s, etc. I´m probably going to Shenzhen for the December screening.

cheers!

I'm glad I went to work for Jade before reading all the grossly blown out proportion comments. The "only" thing I would agree with "Ric", is we don't get paid to drive to the airport, prep the cockpit, and after the parking brake is set, leaving the aircraft. Of course, there is no airline in the world that pays for that. I could go on, but overall Jade is a good place to work for some and obviously not for others. If one prepares for the medical and puts some effort into it, it's not difficult. Spinning the wheel and hoping for the best? Well, that's called gambling. I've done medicals at several airlines in Asia and the CAAC is definitely not the hardest. The interview is very difficult if one goes in unprepared. The days are long but you will have 3 or 4 pilots so there is rest available. I'm home 10 days a month and for those guys that live in Europe, well, the company will let you use the cost of the hotel room towards a ticket home for a couple days, so the Euro guys end up getting close to 15 days at home. Is everyone looking for something else? Of course, that's "The Pilot's way".

thanks for the info jaz:D

can you tell us more about the interview and the test of dr. h.

best regards

Hi Tim, Give me until the end of next week and I'll have something you can use. If you're looking at interviewing in December, there are somethings you can do now to prepare. Get an online FAA ATP test and start studying. The book, " Ace the pilot tech exam" or something like that, is very helpful. As far as the medical, if you are in super shape, stop jogging now. In Asia, if you're in too good a shape, it's a no no. A resting heart rate of less than 50 is a negative. I know it sounds strange but that is the way it is. I wasn't able to get my heart rate above 150 on the treadmill test since I run about 5 miles a day, so I had to jump through all sorts of hoops. This year, I stopped exercising a couple months out and I had no problems. The Doctor even complimented me on doing a better test..... If you are in terrible shape, get off the booze and red meat, start walking every morning for at least 45 minutes. Anyway, I'll have more details within the week but this is something that can be done now. The effort you make now, will make the interview process that much easier. I'm amazed at how guys will go to an interview and think they don't have to prepare and wonder what happened when they get "the phone call"

If anyone has an interview coming up. PM me and I'll give you what info I can to help. I was going to add something to this thread but I can see "someone" is going to argue with whatever I say and I'm not up for that. Good Luck

Interview and current conditions at Jade
 

I will tend to side more with Jaz than Ric regarding conditions at Jade. For instance, I receive all d/h pay at 50% of full credit, regardless of the commercial or company flight duration. It is ground transportation that is not paid for if it falls under 2 hours.

During the economic meltdown in 2008 I was glad to just have a job anywhere in aviation. Having said that...

The interview is relatively tough (most people get weeded out on the psych eval) but not nearly as hard as I thought it would be. All I can say on the psych portion is: BE HONEST. Don't ever try to game the questionnaire by trying to guess what type of pilot the airline is looking for. Answer the questions as if you are having an honest, frank assessment of yourself; you are either a fit for the airline or you aren't. If you try to be someone other than yourself on the MMPI you can keep your bags packed. On the psychometric part of the exam, the computer will have you busier than a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest, but don't give up! If the program gets ahead of you and you can’t recall an exact sequence, cut your losses and jump right back in to it. There are some spatial relations tests (unfolded boxes with markings on various sides, and airplanes in various attitudes that have to be moved to other attitudes using proper flight control inputs, etc. The technical interview was not all that difficult. Some classic questions were asked (what to do if the skipper wants to push mins., the drunk pilot scenario, how much fuel is burned carrying extra fuel (classic 747 4% rule) and a couple of weather and approach chart questions. I don’t know what is currently being asked, but you get the general idea. I did not prepare for the technical interview at all. It is mainly a get-to-know-you interview and the good Dr. goes over your test results, provided you passed his psych screening. Please do not argue with the guy over what kind of a person you are. He was fairly accurate with my personality type and I just let our differences in opinion remain unstated.

The medical exam is bizarre. If you have any kidney or gallbladder stones those have to be taken care of before you can pass their exam. A stress test, EEG, X-Ray, hearing test, eye test and ENT exam is administered; BMI, urine, blood work and overall physical fitness is assessed. Even though I had some problems with hearing and was a little over the max BMI, I was still given a pass. However, I did do some serious biking in the weeks prior to going to China for the interview.

The flying is especially tough; long hours with a 3-man crew of up to 14 hours flight time and longer duty periods. This is one of the things that I do not like about Jade, even more so now that an ex-Air Namibia Austrian has been nominated CP and is really trying to push the troops. However, the rosters have become somewhat more stable under new crew scheduling personnel. Whereas I used to receive 14 or more roster changes in a month, it is now down to about 4-7. Things could still be better!

I am a commuter and the long flights back and forth to home are fatiguing, especially when I want to maximize my time at home with family and the schedulers have me rostered the next day after arrival in China. In addition, the commute takes 3 days crossing the dateline so my effective time at home is 17 days. Jetlag is never ending…

The Chinese have a custom about “losing face” and it becomes irritating to be surrounded by indifferent people who are not willing to step outside their own secure little box, in case they might accidentally make a mistake. For all of the anticipation I had coming here of how well the airline would be run under Lufthansa management, there seems to be a big disconnect between what upper LH management wants to implement and what is actually accomplished on the ground.

Maintenance is not the best in the world. In fact, many Chinese mechanics think the problem is solved once they clear the fault out of the CMC computer. Jade has had an extraordinary number of engine problems on new 747s and that is quite bothersome: dinged fan blades, destroyed turbine hot sections, complete 2nd stage compressor failures and even some unexplained engine rundowns. In my opinion they are shooting in the dark trying to find solutions. I have not heard of too many GE representatives assigned to find out the underlying causes of these issues, and GE makes a damn fine jet engine, IMHO.

Pay is not bad. We are paid in Chinese RMB and it is steadily gaining strength against the dollar. When I started it was 6.84/$, now it is 6.66 and getting even better. Who knows what the situation will be like in 2 years, but for now it is an ideal currency to be paid in. Moving the money out of the country has proven troublesome, though there are some solutions. On average, I make about $11-12k/ month all in as a PICC. It could be better, but it is certainly a lot worse in many other airlines.

The PICC title took some getting used to. It started out as a demeaning position because I used to fly as a 747 Captain, but I am flying more and asking for sectors in the LH seat whenever I fly with a training captain, so my outlook has improved somewhat. Jade is just now upgrading some PICCs and some FOs with previous PIC experience. What really irks me though is the training bond they are holding over the guys. What cheap asses! If the place was an airline where people wanted to have a career, no bond would be required. UPS, FedEx, etc. don’t hold training bonds over their pilot’s heads.

In summary, there are many pros and cons working at Jade Cargo. The pros are that LH has a long-term management contract that should ensure our viability and job security. Routes are expanding and there is finally some movement within the ranks with the recent upgrade classes. In addition, we are now going through the CATII proving stages with somewhat higher mins, but they should be lowered soon. Net pay is not bad, but we have to work for it.

The cons are having to deal with the CAAC and Chinese culture in general. The authorities are absolutely paranoid and resort to bizarre check requirements and conditions whenever an incident or accident occurs (i.e. after the Hudson River ditching we had to practice ditching exercises in a 747 sim, we now have to send an email to 3 different email addresses stating we are "fit for flight" before every trip, etc…). In addition, many within the pilot group have developed a bad distaste for the CP, and are counting the days until he retires. The contract seems to be manipulated in the company’s favor whenever there is a gray area subject to interpretation. Crew rest is also lacking the standards as set forth in JAR regulations. Finally, the long commute is wearing on guy’s nerves. Jade pays for 6 tickets a year in coach so the 20/X back to back (40 days ON/ 20-22 days OFF minus 3 travel days) is the best solution for many of us. It is also questionable whether Jade will ever become a truly big freight airline, such as the aforementioned UPS or FedEx.

Speaking of which, if FedEx or UPS calls today I will be gone tomorrow… ;)

DT747, an excellent write up about Jade and I would think it would cover most of the jobs in China. I too felt having the picc title to be demeaning as it's the cp's opinion that the picc's have only one purpose with Jade, and that is to babysit the aircraft so the "Pilots" can get rest. There is only one reason Jade has picc's, and that is to save money. The Government requires an extra, full PIC when a heavy crew is required and regards picc's as full pic's and all the checks are done accordingly.

With that bit of a whine out of the way, I get a pretty good chunk of change in the bank every month for just being a babysitter and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't really that big a deal.

For those that are interviewing in December, I think we'll be chatting on tuesday. It's not an easy interview by any means so if you're going to come all this way, be prepared.

Lufthansa are said to be dumping Jade and soon, can anyone confirm this.

Actually, I did hear something like that. But I heard that since Jade Cargo is making so much money, Lufthansa is considering "dumping" the Lufthansa Cargo division and just having Jade do all the cargo business.......

PS. Jade is hiring, so any cargo pilots in Germany that might be on the street soon......:eek:

C'mon, stop spreading rumors. Jade isn't a risk to Lufthansa, it's a small part. Ease up a bit.:=

Quick question. How much Tax can one expect to pay on an FO salary at Jade ?

Approximately 18,000 RMB per month

Thanks - so is it fair to say if one does about 75 hours you get out after Tax about 54000 or there abouts ?

It's difficult to say as your pay grade changes with your experience level, whether you live in China or commute etc.... To give you a ballpark idea make it 65,000 RMB give or take 10,000. The min guarantee is 80 hours a month....

the 65000 would that be without allowances ?

Are there set routes at Jade? (rosters) How long is a typical trip, and where are the layovers? Cheers!

Check the Jade website. Jade Cargo International - Flight Schedules

Overnights BCN, FRA, AMS, DXB, PVG, SZX and sometimes LUX

Duty days run between 17-20 hrs. Sometimes longer.

Domestic inside China would be much less.

Hi. Can anyone confirm the rumour that South African passport holders can not be employed by Chinese airlines. Something to do with the issuing of airport security passes - we are bad people apparently.

I understand there are currently a few fellow South Africans with Jade but apparently this rule has been recently introduced which precludes further recruitment by any airline.

Does anyone know if there is a way round this bearing in mind that many of us do not qualify for other passports.

Thanks.

Any feedback from the December screenings for those that attended?

The type of roster you fly is greatly influenced by the type of contract you sign. A commuter can expect to be on the road for about 20 days out of the month, of course depending on when your days off fall you could be away for as much as 40 days. You are allowed to REQUEST your days off, but there is absolutely no guarantee they will be granted.
The hotels are pretty good to very nice in all the cities where there are "normal" layovers. Of course there are always a few glitches in the system. You can expect to D/H 3-5 times a month and the current guarantee of 80 hrs, is NOT A CONTRACTUAL guarantee, but has been in effective for the last year.
An average day is 12-15 flights hours and 16-20 hrs of duty with 2 sectors. This is normally with a 3 pilot crew when it is allowed by regulation.
As with any cargo operation, the roster is subject to change and delays are not uncommon.
As has been announced, the CEO is leaving to accept a position on the BOD of Lufthansa, and his replacement has yet to be named.
The salaries noted in the contract are BEFORE taxes and paid in RMB, which can be problematic at times. You can expect to pay an effective tax rate of 24-40% (the higher number is only with a lot of overtime flying), and the allowances are not taxed.

Jade
 

As it turns out the company is only offering resident contracts from now on. I did the Dec Screening, passed, and now they are saying that no commuting anymore for new joiners.

Anybody else in the same situation?

Cheers,

Upspeed.

How was the screening?

The Situation
 

Anyone considering coming here be sure you do your research and talk to someone that works here. Moral is sinking to new lows daily.

The company is currently at a point where many 3-contracts (and bonds) will be up and many are expecting a rather large exodus within the next months as this begins to happen. It was become so desperate for the company, that they are now even bonding loyal, current, long-term employees when they are given their upgrades. 120,000-128,000RMB is what the bond is, and an additional 3 years of commitment.

Sure, whatever, another bond to be a PIC on a 744 sounds fine, right? But think about this: what does it say about a company and how they treat their employees when they must bond current and loyal pilots? Really think about it.

Yes, the days are long, the sectors are mostly 2, sometimes 3 PER DAY with minimum rest and deadheads surrounding the trips. One often wonders and grumbles about this (does anyone else fly this way??) and in the end, yes, it is all legal.

The pay is good, but at the end of the day, when a pilot is treated as an expendable machine "because we earn so much", one must wonder if it is really worth it. Medical checks are often failed, due largely in part to our declining health over the months and years. Health and family life suffer (a lot), extreme fatigue is common to the point where many believe safety is an issue. In a cargo only airline, $hould $afety $till come fir$t?

Jade Cargo is planning on network expansion. The US market is recovering, more and more airlines are hiring and also upping their salaries to meet the higher standard that has been set in Asia. If Jade Cargo wants to grow, remain competitive as an employer, retain it's employees and attract new ones, the company must come to terms with making this airline one that a pilot WANTS to work at, is PROUD of working at, and therefore will stay at on his own accord.

Until then, when the flood gates open and the water recedes, there may not be many of us left.

I can not give a personal opinion for I do not work for them...at least yet...but I wouldn't say that the company lied to us...they did make it very clear at the end of the screening process that they we're giving preference for residents. So it was just a disapointment to know they are not offering commuting contracts at the moment. I sure hope that they will change their kinds on this in the near future.

Anybody else got offered a contract?

Cheers.

Absolutely right. They don't tell you much, and usually not until you ask for it, and then it's definitely not in your favor. The deadheading thing here is really unbearable. May not sound that bad, but talk to anyone who is here and they'll tell you. 8-9 hours from SZX to PVG is common. Then it's 8 hours rest and off you go on a 2 leg trip to europe with another deadhead at the other end (immediately after you land), solid 18 hours duty with a few hours sleep before, if you were lucky and not too angry to even sleep.

Good luck to all who may come here. Last I heard was that the last 2 recruiting sessions resulted in ZERO new pilots at Jade. Hmmm, think about that one, management.

Hi there. Has anybody been on an interview lately and is willing to share some info about it ?
Thanks

how much you can earn after tax as FO? the numbers that they have on their website are after or before taxes?

Kind Regards

I just heard that Jade is calling guys up that interviewed last December, were not offered a commuting contract, are now being offered a commuting contract. I guess when nobody accepted the resident contract, they had to do something.

After tax pay for an FO, including the housing and per diem is right around 65,000 RMB. If you have a bond, you can subtract about 15000 RMB per month for 24 months and then they hold on to it until you complete your contract and give it back to you. Do they give you interest? No. Now these numbers are close but not exact so don't slam me if I'm off a couple hundred dollars.

They are interviewing again, good luck if you decide to make that choice.....

What are they actually looking for in terms of experience for FO's. Anyone been invited to the selection in May?

4000 hrs. and an ATPL with a valid Boeing or Airbus PIC typerating. Most candidates seem to have more than the minimum requirement, and are quite experienced. A recomendation from a Jade pilot is an advantage.

Minimum for an FO is:

1000 TT

First class med

ATPL no restrictions

Airbus or boeing type preferred but I know of many guy that got on without it.

Age 57 or older need b744 type.

The recommendation from a pilot really isnt necessary and I received a bad boy from the DO when I did recommend as was told they don't want outside influence. I still have the email. So who knows. Good luck.

I might have been mistaken about the requirements, and I cannot find them on the webpage any more.

A few weeks ago I received a mail from the company(and yes, I have a copy ;-), asking us to forward our recommendations of friends and former colleques. I did recommend two, and they both were called for screening, but that could be a coincidense since both are very experienced.

But I agree, reqruitement seems difficult these days, to the advantage for everybody with a license to fly.:D

I'm glad to hear that they are taking recommendations. Their attitude was more than a little negative about that before. Since the minimum requirements change all the time, I would say that if a person has some solid flying experience and not just some time on a C172, to do the online application. I got those minimums off the crew web and that was yesterday so probably still there. The only difference with the picc requirements was the need for 500 pic on a 25t a/c or more and 4000 hrs tt.

I know they need guys so if interested, give it a try. There are a few guys here that can give you some help prep for the interview when that time arrives. It's not a walk in the park and requires some prep. Good Luck!

Hi all. I got an Interview coming up on the 16th of May. Any help or pointers in the right direction would be great !!!!!
Another question. Is there any change of an upgrade down the line ?
It's not much use going as an FO if there is no way of advancement.
Any toughts ????

Congratulations on the interview and if you PM me, I'll be happy to discuss what I remember about the interview. As far as upgrade, in this business, everything is subject to change at anytime. When I joined, there was no upgrade but now there is and they have upgraded a couple guys BUT, the chance to upgrade as an FO is very difficult if not impossible. I've heard that several FO's have resigned in the past couple months because of this. Jade has made the effort but the caac is putting up the wall. If you're coming to Jade for a few years experience and some pretty good pay, then great. If you have dreams of coming as an FO and retiring as a Captain, you might be disillusioned. However, as I mentioned, change could happen anytime.

Jade upgrades
 

I would agree with most of what been said here. There are a couple of things that haven't been mentioned. Let's face it with 130 pilots and six aircraft, it will be a LONG time to upgrade unless they add to the fleet. Also right now, as far as I know, no one has made the transition from F/O to Capt. All the upgraded pilots are from the PICC ranks with prior PIC time in "large" aircraft. Unless there is some major changes in the CAAC regs and interpretation of those regs it will remain an uphill struggle to move from F/O to Capt.
They have just released a "new" Employment Agreement, and I suspect that all new pilots will have to sign it. If I were offered an contract, I would read carefully the agreement with the point of view that every thing will be done to enhance the company's position as it pertains to the agreement. In other words, it will be interpreted to the company's benefit in every way. I have also heard that they are doing everything possible to not offer commuting contracts at this time, so be aware of that as well.
There is a new CEO, but he has only been in place for 2 weeks, so hard to know what he will bring to the table. I know the article about seeking additional capital has caused some concern, but I am under the impression that the current shareholders have infused the desired amount of capital into the company recently.
There have been a number of F/O's resign recently because of the inability to upgrade, and I suspect that trend to continue in the near future. Many of them have recently completed the 3 year contract and are moving on to places they will have a shot at Capt in the forseeable future.
Now for the good part. The guys are great to work with and it is a diverse group, the job itself is not an easy one, because they tend to go to the max hours/sectors allowed and there a lot of long days.
I do suspect they will be screening for a while as they continue to lose pilots to other operators. The monetary advantage Jade offered 3-4 years ago is eroding quickly as others offer contracts with as much money and better (sic) working conditions.
The earlier poster is correct, the screening is not something to be taken lightly, and while part of it is not something you can study for, it is important to be ready to take the CAAC ATPL exam. I would also say that given the recent scrutiny of logbooks, etc. one should have their paperwork in good order and be able to "certify" their experience. I hope this helps give a little perspective, but remember it is only my opinion.