CWC Airlines
 

This new company, City Wide Cargo is to be based at SEN apparently. Anyone know anything about them, backers, a/c types, t's & c's etc

Thanks

As far as my limited knowledge goes I believe this company very small and is going to be operating a Cargo Configured Piper Chieftain I didnt know it was a Southend Based company nor do I know that have started negotiation about starting out of SEN, but its real and they have been looking around for an Ops guy last time I heard.

Anyone with more info willing to share with us would be very nice especially if they got thier pilots yet or are they yet to be hired, Hmmm it must be real but how much Cargo can a Chief carry and what is the operational costs of this plane per hour.

Good luck to them it be nice if it goes ahead SEN could do with a company based there.

Having had to make a million and one phone call :eek: I can confirm the owner is in his 20s and is of Lebanese Origine and the Aircraft type is definetly a PA31. :ok:

wannabe-aviator thanks for the input.

Anyone else know anything. From what I've heard, they appear genuine but like so many potential start ups, one never can tell.

Does anyone have a link to the CAA to show an AOC application is under way ?

Think WA may know a bit more than he's telling !

In previous psts he's asked for the application form for an AOC.

He's asked about BACs 360s - CWC currently advertising a 360 on 'Barnstormers'
He's asked about a Metro 3 - CWC advertising for a Metro 3 on 'Barnstormers'
He's asked about LET410s - CWC were advertising LET410s on 'Barnstormers'
He's asked about cargo carrying Chieftains - CWC are apparently going to operate one.
He's asked about a 'new cargo operator' at Southend and knew there was Arab money involved.
He's asked about flightops software for a small company operating 2 aircraft on pax & cargo charters.
In reply to a question about Lebanon he replied 'our country is in complete political meltdown'.

Quite why it then needed 'a million and one phone calls' to find the info I'm not too sure as he'd already posted most of it before!!

Now I 'may' be wrong, but this idea was mooted to operate off the back of another operator's AOC who coincidently operate the PA31-350 and have Middle East backing/ownership ?

As for the SD3-60, well thats a non-starter due to the cost of TAWS and TCAS for any of the scrap thats sitting around SEN/CVT etc rotting away, the wheat has been seperated from the chaff with all that junk and its unlikely that there would ever be another SD3-60 go into service in the UK as there just aren't any good ones left.

Be careful at this end of the market, believe me the work is more specialised than ever, on the Metro front the Spanish cannot be beaten on price and contracts are getting few and far between, ad-hoc is still around but less and less with the main player in the brokering world preferring to buy hours then 'manage' aircraft for their work with foreign operators than use one off charters with more expensive UK operators.

My genuine advice is that unless its underpined with a contract or two, there simply isnt the ad hoc work for that type of aircraft to go around.

Wannabe
 

If memory serves, it was a long time ago I worked with PA31's
Navajo about 600kg
Chieftain about 800 Kgs
Obviously dependent on the sector, and these girls could still have the pax seats in at the drop of a hat. We had two chiefs and one Nav at National, they were kept pretty busy, but that was a long time ago.
As for the DOC's, no idea, but I guess you can pick them up cheap enough which helps.
Last time I used one was for an AOG spares flight to LYS. The aircraft had to ferry to LYS Bron at their expence to uplift AVGAS to make the return to the UK, that does not help the DOC's.
Still, AOG flights always will be needed, and big manufactures still have 'just in time' component cock-ups so good luck to CWC, there is money to be made if you can launch quick enough.
Think it was 1KG of documents for Emery Worldwide SEN-BRU to catch the transatlantic that was the least I ever sold a PA31 for. Stopped them loosing a major customer, so they footed the bill both ways.
Bored

Ifonly

I must ask that you clarify what you are implying exactly please, Firstly I must clarify points you made.

Am I lebanese Yes have I meet the Guy behind this Op yes 2 or so years ago for Lunch when he first started talking about setting it up.

You mention why did I need to make a few phones well basically I dont like to talk out of my Back side as they say so I needed to make sure we are talking about the same Person and obviously we are.

You mentioned about me asking for an AOC application form not sure what exactly your trying to say with that one exactly because if your implying what I think you are then I would be a right Plunker if i cant even know where to get an AOC application and I want to do something with it.

Do I know more about this Operation than am telling YES and I am doing going to deny the fact that I do because it will be :mad: sh+t if i said i didnt.

How i hear you asking like I said I knew the outline from a few years back but obviously a lot has changed and my friend is helping with this company so I get access to certain info.

as for me posting about a new start up in SEN well basically I just needed to know if it was again the same people and also dont forget I owe these people nothing so I am just like you and BW have an interest only in potential employment and nothing else and it would be a :mad: up situation if I or anyone else jumps in bed with this company only for it to be bust so I would welcome your critism but please keep it to fact and not indirect implications as I do not want to be associated with something am not directly or indirectly involved with at this moment in time, I appreciate how you may have come to the conclusions but I hope I have justified even thought i shouldnt have to justify my self to no one. :ok:

WA:ok:

All I said was that I thought you knew more than you were telling. You've just confirmed that you do ... end of story.

No offence intended you just seemed to be asking questions about this operation in previous threads. Couldn't understand why it took 'a million and one phone calls'.

As someone who has connections with Southend I look froward to this operation starting.

Any more news on this new company and it's intentions.It seems to have gone quiet on here :uhoh:

DC9

From what I know a meeting took place between the Owner/CEO of CWC Airline and Rick Jackson (Finance Manager) and Katy Woolcott (Estates Manager) of Southend Airport that the only update i can furnish you with until I get more info from my friend who is involved with this Start up. :ok:

cwc
 

Anyone got anymore news on these guys?

why SEN?

Why not SEN???:bored:

My spies indicate that there is a contract up for grabs out of SEN that could go on anything from a Pa 31 up to a Shorts, I think these guys are in the running along with the usual Metro operators.

As i've said in the past, i'm not thst sure how much ad-hoc there is out of SEN for this type of aircraft, the old AOG 'go now' isn't as common as it used to be and many contracts have gone by the wayside as the integrators swallowed up a lot of dedicated charter contracts with their cheaper options.

I also hear that a certain SD3-60 operator is about to base an aircraft there on an ad-hoc basis thats tied in with some contract flying so competition along with the Be200 and metro operators will be fierce.

Cant help thinking its just the wrong type of aircraft.

true!

when will they become operational?

Who said the a/c would be based in SEN :confused:

You did!!!

See Post No.1 of this thread.

EI

Very interesting about this contract you mentioned as far as I know CWC Is going to be a scheduled cargo Airline, but they will offer AD HOC on need only basis.

Express

In the defence of BW this company is to be based at SEN but it needs not to base its Aircraft in SEN.

WA :ok:

Why would a small operator have its offices at SEN but not have its aircraft based there? If the operation is to located elsewhere surely it would be sensible to have their offices there also and forget SEN altogether.
Sounds like a rather inefficient (and expensive) way to set up the business.

Expressflight I never said anything about aircraft of CWC being based at SEN did I :confused: Maybe they will be based elsewhere and "W" through SEN, that makes sense does it not?

So what about Scot Airways. How many of their aircraft are based at CBG :confused:

Scot Airways is a very much larger business and don't forget they started in Cambridge and based their aircraft there initially, so I don't think that is very a valid comparison in all honestly.

Don't get me wrong, I wish CWC every success, but I still feel that a fledgling, small company needs to have its commercial and operational activities in one place. What good reason is there for doing otherwise? If your aircraft is based away from your commercial base you are having to pay a handling agent at the remote location to do the operational/traffic activities you could be doing in-house. Crew training and maintenance etc. can also be a bind in those circumstances.

I've been there, done it, had the ulcers and sleepless nights so I'm simply offering advice from personal experience. Never complicate something that you could have kept simple.

Finally, has the market for the scheduled freight operation been thoroughly researched? I certainly hope so.

I see that on Barnstormers.com CWC are advertising 750 kg cargo capacity on a daily London-Dublin-Paris routing commencing this month:bored: .
Sounds like the Chieftain which was previously mentioned.

They are also seeking launch finance in a separate ad. of 250,000USD.
I shan't be reaching into my back pocket I don't think.

Expressflight That was posted in February. From my research, things have changed for the better and the Navajo won't be used and finance is already available. Sounds to me like you have no faith in CWC. Why is that ?

I really would be very canny about the whole secheduled cargo operation.

The yield on 750Kg would have to be extremely high, there must be a contract of sorts underpinning this with say a guaranteed amount per day, cock it up one day and the freight will probably head back to which ever integrator its going with at the moment, Paris and Dublin are hardly specialist niches like Emerald used to carve out when they did this type of thing, and the consolodation can be extremely tricky and time consuming and requires a lot of organising. I could see the point if it was for a larger amount of cargo, but for 750kgs it seems hardly worth all the effort.

There is a small market for high value, particularly financial items, but more and more these contracts are swallowed up by the integrators who are hardly going to use this type of service, working closely with the main one for the past 8 year, I can tell you it simply does not fit into their business model.

I'm interested to hear the Nav is no longer the aircraft being used, with limited options on the UK register under 3000kg capacity just what exactly do the propose to operate ?

Like Expressflight, i've been there and got the T-shirt, you could have all the money in China, it wont do you any good unless you have a sound aircraft, sound contracts or spot a nieche in the market to exploit, from what I hear of this operation it would not be something I would invest in personally, but best of luck to them.

bacardi walla

I think EI-CGO sums up my thoughts almost exactly.

Neither of us are anti-CWC - simply being realistic as a result of long experience in this field of aviation.

I still wish CWC every success - who knows, they may have found a niche we have all missed.

i doubt it very much Express.

A month has gone by without any further news on this start-up.

I wonder if BW or WA have any updated information to offer.

EF

I can definetly confirm that there have been ongoing negotiation between CWC and Horizon Capital Management group over an ACMI lease for a DC8-63 with AOC cover on a 1 year contract.

The website will be launched in the next 7-10 days along with a press release outlining thier plans and a statement from its founder.

With this in mind I and am sure all of you can safely say that SEN is out of the question as it cannot handle an AC the size of the DC8 my money is on Stansted or Luton (Hint hint).

Hope ive given you the positive outlook you would expect from this company and I am sure you as well as I wish them all the best of Luck.

WA:ok:

Indeed I wish them the very best of luck.

Having obviously rapidly changed their business plan from an inter-European small freight schedule with a Navajo to something rather more ambitious, and perhaps worldwide, with a DC8-63 I await the launch of the website with bated breath.

Manston might not be a bad choice of base, rather than STN or LTN, do you think?

EF

Indeed you are correct about the rapidly changed business plan and personally its for the better especially if the world wide locations are picked properly which I think they would have.

As for Manston I would agree with you if I actaully knew where it is geographycally speaking as I dont know where its proximity to London.

WA:ok:

Manston (MSE) is about 90 km East of London on the Kent coast.

I believe they currently handle MK Airlines and Egypt Air freighters and that Cargolux may be commencing operations into MSE soon.

Wa 4 Egmh/mse
 

N51-20.5 E001-20.8 Google Earth it

EF and Merlin

Many thanks for the info its always great toknow new places and other such things I have googled manston it looks pretty good.

WA:ok:

The website will be launched in the next 7-10 days along with a press release outlining thier plans and a statement from its founder.


Has the website been launched - just wondering where the base was going to be?

Another month passes and no website or anything else as far as I know.

Has this, sadly, become another operation that fails to get off the ground?

By the way, light freight at SEN seems very healthy at present with 3 or 4 Metroliners on the ramp most days. Don't know if it's ad hoc or contract work. Anyone know?

Metros in SEN
 

Contract work for a express courier to Germany I believe.

Express Flight

I believe if you visit www.cwcair.co.uk you will see the website of this company and further more Pilots and engineers are being sort out according thier website.

It will be launching sometime in 2007 so lets hope them Luck and I for once hope it takes off as stated previously I have a friend helping out with this.

WA:ok:

good luck to them, old Branson started off with one machine back in the early 80's......

WA

Thanks for the link.

I sincerely wish CWC every success and am more hopeful now that they seem to have moved away from the idea of just a scheduled operation aimed at consolidating small consignments of general freight.

The website looks professional and even the chosen aircraft might work.

I know how much work goes into trying to establish a new operation and would never wish ill upon someone trying to do that.

Good luck to them and I look forward to hearing how things progress.

P.S. Where will CWC be based, do you know?

General words have it at SEN or Ashford but that is just rumours.