British Cargo G-KILO
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British Cargo G-KILO
Is it true that a steward or stewardess was always a member of the crew ?
Allegedly to provide in flight catering.
Where did she operate to/from.
Were her flight crews dedicated to cargo ops or just rostered from the B.747-200 pool ?
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David
Allegedly to provide in flight catering.
Where did she operate to/from.
Were her flight crews dedicated to cargo ops or just rostered from the B.747-200 pool ?
Thanks for your time and trouble.
Be lucky
David
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Is it true that a steward or stewardess was always a member of the crew ?
G-KILO was operated by standard 747 crews. One could operate to JFK on a passenger aircraft and then return on the freighter.
G-KILO operated mainly LHR-JFK. It was sold to Cathay.
Wot Capt Airclues said …..
The wonderful freighter steward or stewardess went out when the three 707 freighters were sold for peanuts – allegedly $250,000 per ship including the dual Delco Carousel INSs.
By the time G-KILO arrived someone had done a productivity deal that said there would be no cabin crew on freighters, so for the single RR-200 747 freighter the crew was Captain, F/O and Flight Engineer; no loadie, spanner or cabin crew. General routine after halfway up the climb was - F/O goes and gets the dinner on while F/E gets into F/Os seat and does a bit of poling – usually better than the F/O. After that, refreshments were done by whoever went off for comfort breaks. Rest facilities consisted of a few pax seats on the minimal upper deck, with a balcony looking aft over the main deck.
The ginormous and usually well filled hold got a bit lonely and scary way down the back, looking at all the igloos and covered pallets in the dark, imagining what might jump out at you, so a good question to put to the Captain when you got back to the flight deck was “Hey Skipper – if I din’t come back – who ya gonna send to find me ? ”
In addition to the regular LHR-JFK with 100 tonnes there was a weekly round the world LHR – DXB – HKG – NRT – ANC – LHR. Because trips and crews were (sensibly) not dedicated to the freighter, you could find a freighter sector on any trip line.
When the Falklands war kicked off, it was alleged that the MoD rang BA to say – “We really need your 747 freighter pronto via the STUFT protocol.” only to be told “Sorry chaps, we sold it to Cathay years ago.”
Eeeeeh it were great fun !
LFH
..............
The wonderful freighter steward or stewardess went out when the three 707 freighters were sold for peanuts – allegedly $250,000 per ship including the dual Delco Carousel INSs.
By the time G-KILO arrived someone had done a productivity deal that said there would be no cabin crew on freighters, so for the single RR-200 747 freighter the crew was Captain, F/O and Flight Engineer; no loadie, spanner or cabin crew. General routine after halfway up the climb was - F/O goes and gets the dinner on while F/E gets into F/Os seat and does a bit of poling – usually better than the F/O. After that, refreshments were done by whoever went off for comfort breaks. Rest facilities consisted of a few pax seats on the minimal upper deck, with a balcony looking aft over the main deck.
The ginormous and usually well filled hold got a bit lonely and scary way down the back, looking at all the igloos and covered pallets in the dark, imagining what might jump out at you, so a good question to put to the Captain when you got back to the flight deck was “Hey Skipper – if I din’t come back – who ya gonna send to find me ? ”
In addition to the regular LHR-JFK with 100 tonnes there was a weekly round the world LHR – DXB – HKG – NRT – ANC – LHR. Because trips and crews were (sensibly) not dedicated to the freighter, you could find a freighter sector on any trip line.
When the Falklands war kicked off, it was alleged that the MoD rang BA to say – “We really need your 747 freighter pronto via the STUFT protocol.” only to be told “Sorry chaps, we sold it to Cathay years ago.”
Eeeeeh it were great fun !
LFH
..............
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Another irony, G-KILO became VR-HVY, during Gulf War one, she was painted white and helped the RAF with freight movement from Brize to the Middle East. Six months later Cathay got Heathrow landings slots to!
she was painted white and helped the RAF with freight movement from Brize to the Middle East
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bloody good post Esquires, thanks for ratteling the (very old) memory bells!
Last edited by old freightdog; 15th Nov 2016 at 21:48. Reason: spelling, my floppen eyes
Cathay improved to minimal upper deck layout BA had on G-KILO by moving the rear bulkhead and bunks aft, installing some cabin windows (had none before), replacing the triple economy seat with some business class seats and adding to the very small galley to enable more supplies to be carried. Also replaced the -524C2 engines with D4s when available and increased the MTOW.
CV880 - Aaaaah the old-style Cathay management was “all heart” wasn’t it. I suppose you got someone to make your tea too ? Bunks indeed ! There weren’t any bunks on G-KILO because there were never enough chaps in the crew to use them (legally that is, even if there had been)
If you had bunks in VR-HVY, what really long sectors did it fly ? It must have been an interesting trade-off between fuel and freight, unless it was really high-value.
It reminds me that later on, we were forbidden by the FOD to use the on-flight-deck bunks on the 747 Classic pax a/c unless it was an augmented crew (more than three) Even though the F/E could wake the sleeper without leaving his seat. It further reminds me that a little while later BA placed a second order for 747-400s and paid for the crew loo and bunks to be removed – “400-lite” I think. Really useful, like buying 777s without proper crew rest, while another Brit LH airline recently bought A330s without crew rest too.
For sometime after selling the 707 Freighters, BA paid JAL to do its cargo work with (I think) DC-8 freighters on the trans-ANC route. JAL had bought a fuel mine in Alaska and it was claimed that it was cheaper to pay JAL to do the our freighting. IIRC that caused my old mate Capt Noisy to utter some public apoplexy in the firelighter.
LFH
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If you had bunks in VR-HVY, what really long sectors did it fly ? It must have been an interesting trade-off between fuel and freight, unless it was really high-value.
It reminds me that later on, we were forbidden by the FOD to use the on-flight-deck bunks on the 747 Classic pax a/c unless it was an augmented crew (more than three) Even though the F/E could wake the sleeper without leaving his seat. It further reminds me that a little while later BA placed a second order for 747-400s and paid for the crew loo and bunks to be removed – “400-lite” I think. Really useful, like buying 777s without proper crew rest, while another Brit LH airline recently bought A330s without crew rest too.
For sometime after selling the 707 Freighters, BA paid JAL to do its cargo work with (I think) DC-8 freighters on the trans-ANC route. JAL had bought a fuel mine in Alaska and it was claimed that it was cheaper to pay JAL to do the our freighting. IIRC that caused my old mate Capt Noisy to utter some public apoplexy in the firelighter.
LFH
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If you had bunks in VR-HVY, what really long sectors did it fly ?
).
LFH
CV880 - Aaaaah the old-style Cathay management was “all heart” wasn’t it. I suppose you got someone to make your tea too ? Bunks indeed ! There weren’t any bunks on G-KILO because there were never enough chaps in the crew to use them (legally that is, even if there had been)
If you had bunks in VR-HVY, what really long sectors did it fly ? It must have been an interesting trade-off between fuel and freight, unless it was really high-value.
It reminds me that later on, we were forbidden by the FOD to use the on-flight-deck bunks on the 747 Classic pax a/c unless it was an augmented crew (more than three) Even though the F/E could wake the sleeper without leaving his seat. It further reminds me that a little while later BA placed a second order for 747-400s and paid for the crew loo and bunks to be removed – “400-lite” I think. Really useful, like buying 777s without proper crew rest, while another Brit LH airline recently bought A330s without crew rest too.
For sometime after selling the 707 Freighters, BA paid JAL to do its cargo work with (I think) DC-8 freighters on the trans-ANC route. JAL had bought a fuel mine in Alaska and it was claimed that it was cheaper to pay JAL to do the our freighting. IIRC that caused my old mate Capt Noisy to utter some public apoplexy in the firelighter.
LFH
...............
If you had bunks in VR-HVY, what really long sectors did it fly ? It must have been an interesting trade-off between fuel and freight, unless it was really high-value.
It reminds me that later on, we were forbidden by the FOD to use the on-flight-deck bunks on the 747 Classic pax a/c unless it was an augmented crew (more than three) Even though the F/E could wake the sleeper without leaving his seat. It further reminds me that a little while later BA placed a second order for 747-400s and paid for the crew loo and bunks to be removed – “400-lite” I think. Really useful, like buying 777s without proper crew rest, while another Brit LH airline recently bought A330s without crew rest too.
For sometime after selling the 707 Freighters, BA paid JAL to do its cargo work with (I think) DC-8 freighters on the trans-ANC route. JAL had bought a fuel mine in Alaska and it was claimed that it was cheaper to pay JAL to do the our freighting. IIRC that caused my old mate Capt Noisy to utter some public apoplexy in the firelighter.
LFH
...............
ALL BA -400s were delivered with bunks. They did order and receive 4 -400 Lites. The only noticeable difference was the absence of the fuel tank in the tail thus depriving the machine of 10k kgs of juice. Memory fails as to whether there were different operating weights but I suppose it was quite likely as without tail fuel the C of G would have been restricted. Interestingly those 4 aircraft have now been converted to "high J" configuration thereby signalling that they will be staying into the next decade. The other 14 selected are more-or-less the last to be delivered. These aircraft did have their toilets removed and then reinstated but they had bunks like all others. I believe the lack of flexibility was the reason for not ordering more, the tail tank was used on long range ops. I doubt it is used nowadays as there are no long range ops left on the fleet.
Flightwatch -
Thank you for the insightful clarifications. One of my school reports said "He remembers little, and that inaccurately."
Sounds like the equally brilliant deactivation of the Classic main doors (Doors 4 ?) which went much the same way.
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You are getting your stories mixed up.
... lo and behold, it was found that many of the previously removed toilets had been junked
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I was part of the crew that flew B-HVY (formally G-KILO) on its last flight. We flew it from Hong Kong to Cardiff on the 28 April 2008, and then to Kemble on the 29th to be scrapped. After take off from Cardiff the gear would not retract but we decided to forgo the abnormal checklist and leave it down for the remainder of the airframes life.
