Passenger requirements for cargo flights..

[Jryalls1]

Doing some research on passenger requirements if there was to be 10 max public passengers on a large cargo flight, such as if you were transporting animals and needed the keepers with them..

Any particular EASA legislation in regards to cabin crew required, emergency systems.. floor lighting, oxgyen masks ect.

Any info will be great, in particular any EASA docs. I understand a current 1 per 50 seats CC requirement for pax flights and also possible no need for A/C under 19 seats. but may conflict if the operations are for cargo flights..

Thanks,

J.

[DVR7R]

Normaly the Loadie becomes the hostie

[grounded27]

As I understood it in the past under FAA rule Horse handlers were generally cargo and did not need to be counted, though I had not ever seen it happen. My knowledge of this was simply word of mouth.

[744rules]

I was told a freighter looses its "cargo aircraft status" when taking pax (not including horse handlers, staff travel,...). This would mean that CAO cannot be loaded on this flight, and that all hazmat should be considered as if was a pax flight.

[G&T ice n slice]

From ancient memory, we asked all the usual horsey-focused forwarders/agents to put their grooms through our in-house animal attendants' course after which they were then certified as supernumary crew. Think there was a refresher every year to maintain individual certification.

[FlyingStone]

Most cargo companies don't have approval for passenger operations, so they can't transport passengers - paying or not.

Technically "passengers" on board of cargo aircraft are not passengers. They are usually called supernumerary (or some other term) crew members. If you are transporting animals and need some people to take care of them (grooms, vets, etc.) they are doing their job on board the aircraft - taking care of cargo. Ergo they are not passenger, but crew members.

Certifying people to be supernumerary crew depends on the company - can be as simple as on-spot briefing by the captain.

[DCBOE]

Pax on cargo.

They are called supernumerary crew whoever they are, you have to have sufficient seats and sufficient emergency escape devices, generally 8 on a 747, and they have to be briefed on emergencies by the crew. This includes loadmasters who are not actually part of the crew.

[Anilv]

All conc,

1. As no cabin crew on board, the 'passengers' will need to be briefed on emergency evac procedures. Briefing will be done by one of the flight crew and record of this will need to be on file at the departure station (for obvious purposes). This would also apply to airlines staff who are allowed to travel on board. One american carrier I worked for has a 'jumpseat qualification' test which you had to complete in the system, otherwise you would not be able to make a booking.

2. A jumbo full of horses will need more than a few grooms.. I have seen seat pallets which are basically a few (six I think) a/c types seats with oxygen tanks and life vests. Usually loaded at position CL. Base was thicker than your usual PMC..probably as thick as a 20ft pallet.

Anil

[Jryalls1]

Thanks all for your comments. Will look into it.. interested in the 'pallet seats'.. guess this conforms to the 16G seats too Anilv for seat attachment?



Thanks J.

[Anilv]

cant really comment on that.. the seats were aircraft seats and the fixing to the floor was by directly bolting it to the pallet, not using seat-tracks you usually find in the cabin.

The pallets were restrained by the standard ULD locks on 4 sides.

The idea of using seat pallets are not new as various QC (quick change) aircraft types use this so some standards for certification do exists.

Anil

[Anilv]

Found this..

VRR Aviation - seat pallets

[Jryalls1]

Thanks Anilv for the link, looks interesting and what im looking for.

Thanks all for the help,

J.

[newscaster]

Why cant pets, usually dogs and cats be carried on main deck and why cant one passenger accompany them if someone is travelling with pets and willing to take this mode of travel? this should be allowed pending availability of space, the pet carriers can be fastened with belts to the floor, as is done with crew luggage, owner will look after their meals.

[CargoMatatu]

They frequently are allowed on the main deck in both passenger and cargo aircraft.
Check with the Carrier before flying.

[newscaster]

I know some airlines allow even small dogs in passenger cabin but never knew about cargo aircraft, thought they are always kept in the dingy bulk head place even on those despite plenty of free space on main deck.

[DCBOE]

I was flying as a pax on Gulf Air a couple of years back, 320, and an Arab chap got on with his bird, falcon/hawk/whatever, on his wrist, sat there for whole flight. Seems its usual.

[Anilv]

Newscaster...

I'm sure that if someone was willing to pay enough then they'd be allowed to accompany their pet.. expensive though as you have to factor in ad-hoc insurance etc.

'dingy bulk head place' if you mean the bulk compartment then this would be the easiest to keep warm (small volume). Getting a large space like the maindeck of a freighter warm takes a lot of bleed air..more fuel=more costs. On a 747 freighter only the hump is heated .. and you stay away from the maindeck access 'hole' as cold air sometimes comes up around the edges. 74 Freighters usually need only one pack on .. for livestock charters, all 3 packs are mandatory.



DCBOE

Emr@tes carries falcons in their cabins (at least until 2009).. usually found on their Pakistan - UAE flights.

Anilv

[DCBOE]

For Information.

On 747s all of the aircraft is heated/cooled as required, upper deck, main deck, and holds, fwd, aft and bulk.
Converted freighters sometimes still have three packs, new build cargo only have two.

[Intruder]

All 744s and 748s have 3 packs, including cargo versions.

Some 742 cargo aircraft had 2 packs. Also, main deck temp control was not precise, and lower lobe temp control was marginal in the 742 freighters.

[DCBOE]

So my 11,400 hours as an F/E on 747-100/200/300s, pax and cargo, was all in vain,
My futile attempts at temp control were all rubbish, and only counting 2 air inlets for a/c when doing a walk round, I obviously missed one, silly me,
I will slap my wrist and try to do better next time!