Three Holers..
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Joined: Jan 2000
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From: metz, france
Three Holers..
Well gentlemen, (And Ladies) there is some movement around, so do not lose all hope!! Seems like one three holer (DC-10) is being replaced by another (L-1011) over the skies of Europe and Africa.
The First ex-Cal. aircraft that was stored in Abu Dhabi for a few years IS on revenue service and the next one is arriving soon.
The First ex-Cal. aircraft that was stored in Abu Dhabi for a few years IS on revenue service and the next one is arriving soon.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
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From: UK
I have to admit that I am confused! I had no idea that the ex-Caledonian L1011s had been converted into freighters whilst they were sitting in the desert in Abu Dhabi. If not, why are they featuring on the Freight Dogs page?
Certainly no L1011 freighter would ever be seriously replacing a DC-10 unless the operators were flat-broke. One of my F/E friends (from my DC-10 days) has been flying the L1011 freighter for some years and he tells me that it won't do more than 5 hours 30 minutes with a full load. In fact, he is of the opinion that compared to the DC-10-30, the L1011 "is an over-engineered dawg"!
I well remember my first LGW - LAX flight in a DC-10-30. With 345 passengers plus bags and 35,000 lbs of freight under the floor, we even managed a modest derate on take-off over Russ Hill on 26 from Gatwick.
Incidentally, can anyone out there tell me what the correct MTOW for an L1011 is nowadays? We operated our DC-10-30s to 580,000 lbs (583,000 lbs ramp).
Certainly no L1011 freighter would ever be seriously replacing a DC-10 unless the operators were flat-broke. One of my F/E friends (from my DC-10 days) has been flying the L1011 freighter for some years and he tells me that it won't do more than 5 hours 30 minutes with a full load. In fact, he is of the opinion that compared to the DC-10-30, the L1011 "is an over-engineered dawg"!
I well remember my first LGW - LAX flight in a DC-10-30. With 345 passengers plus bags and 35,000 lbs of freight under the floor, we even managed a modest derate on take-off over Russ Hill on 26 from Gatwick.
Incidentally, can anyone out there tell me what the correct MTOW for an L1011 is nowadays? We operated our DC-10-30s to 580,000 lbs (583,000 lbs ramp).
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: UK
Many thanks for that 411A. Most of the DC-10-30s came out around 260T and with the CF-6 C2B option this went up to 263T. (I believe the military operate the KC10 at nearly 270T).
I can now see why an L10-200F at 215T would only go 5 hours 30 minutes with a full load. It is a big difference.
Loading through the pax doors (unless it is SLF) is going to be pretty interesting if that is indeed the plan!
By the way, I have seen a couple of Hewa Bora (Congo) L1011s recently floating around Europe and they look very smart.
I can now see why an L10-200F at 215T would only go 5 hours 30 minutes with a full load. It is a big difference.
Loading through the pax doors (unless it is SLF) is going to be pretty interesting if that is indeed the plan!
By the way, I have seen a couple of Hewa Bora (Congo) L1011s recently floating around Europe and they look very smart.
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I guess any job openings that might come out of this will be for experienced crew only?
Indeed I`m one of those almost fresh out of flight academy guys with only 200 hours :-(
Thanks very much anyway if you would give us guys a chance too
And where are these planes going to operate? (identifiers don`t mean much to me yet but I`ll look them up)
Indeed I`m one of those almost fresh out of flight academy guys with only 200 hours :-(
Thanks very much anyway if you would give us guys a chance too
And where are these planes going to operate? (identifiers don`t mean much to me yet but I`ll look them up)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
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From: UK
Hellcopter:
Many thanks for the information. I had not really considered the L1011-500 in my comparison for Lockheeds had to saw 13 ft 6 ins (4.11m) off of the fuselage to make it work - which rather defeats the object of the exercise.
Many thanks for the information. I had not really considered the L1011-500 in my comparison for Lockheeds had to saw 13 ft 6 ins (4.11m) off of the fuselage to make it work - which rather defeats the object of the exercise.
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Mostly here, but often there
RAF operates modified -500s to an MTOW of 245T. Max ZFW is 159T, if memory serves me correctly....I'll let you know again in 6 months!
T'would appear I should have read 'copters post first! Big problem with the tankers is that if you fill them with fuel (136T if memory serves me correctly), you bust the max AUW! Still, 125T does go an awfully long way...
T'would appear I should have read 'copters post first! Big problem with the tankers is that if you fill them with fuel (136T if memory serves me correctly), you bust the max AUW! Still, 125T does go an awfully long way...
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Eu
Scrap Metal
Sorry gents, but in my view the DC10 and in particular the Tristar are both scrap metal,no harm in waxing on about them while working your farms,but its a long wait if your looking for the 'good ole days 'to return.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
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From: UK
Hellcopter:
I am quite prepared to believe you but could you really take 380 punters from London to Los Angeles in an L1011-500?
Scrap Metal:
The topic of the conversation is "Three Holers" - nobody said there was an age limit!
I am quite prepared to believe you but could you really take 380 punters from London to Los Angeles in an L1011-500?
Scrap Metal:
The topic of the conversation is "Three Holers" - nobody said there was an age limit!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,627
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From: UTC +8
Two more L1011-200Fs joined the junk yard at ROW (Roswell) last month, one with Fine Air livery, the other with Arrow Air livery. There is no long term future for any "Three Holers." Eventually, the DC-3 will have outlived them all!
