What's the latest with AeroLogic (German 777F Operator)?
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md11-f
seems to be u r in the union
let me tell u something
1) welcome to the future of business
2) it is not yr company so no lh jobs
3) i dont think they have all the amenities a lh pilot has
4) and if u want to fly for them then apply as everybody else
think about this before u make some rubbish comments and by the way it shows again, how useful a union is, they r just creating disfavor and envy
tks
seems to be u r in the union
let me tell u something
1) welcome to the future of business
2) it is not yr company so no lh jobs
3) i dont think they have all the amenities a lh pilot has
4) and if u want to fly for them then apply as everybody else
think about this before u make some rubbish comments and by the way it shows again, how useful a union is, they r just creating disfavor and envy
tks
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@airwjo
rubbish comment?? I know, there are many people out there who want a job with Aerologic. Aerologic is nothing else than "outsourcing" MD11 jobs at Lufthansa Cargo. I fly MD 11 for almost 9 years now, and I simply don´t like to give my Job to anybody! Yes, I have the option to fly A340/330, or B744 SLF, but to be honest, I love to fly freighters. So, I believe, the 777 jobs belong to the MD11 guys at LH Cargo, and as we are a part of the general contract(Konzerntarifvertrag), the jobs belong to all LH Pilots! @ the DHL guy, you are also invited to fight for your 50% 777 jobs, go for it, not whining! That´s my last 50 Cents for this one, first I go and clean the parked MD11, and when it looks shiny, I climb another one and enjoy to fly it!
Over and out from my side, Rgds to everybody out there MD11 f
rubbish comment?? I know, there are many people out there who want a job with Aerologic. Aerologic is nothing else than "outsourcing" MD11 jobs at Lufthansa Cargo. I fly MD 11 for almost 9 years now, and I simply don´t like to give my Job to anybody! Yes, I have the option to fly A340/330, or B744 SLF, but to be honest, I love to fly freighters. So, I believe, the 777 jobs belong to the MD11 guys at LH Cargo, and as we are a part of the general contract(Konzerntarifvertrag), the jobs belong to all LH Pilots! @ the DHL guy, you are also invited to fight for your 50% 777 jobs, go for it, not whining! That´s my last 50 Cents for this one, first I go and clean the parked MD11, and when it looks shiny, I climb another one and enjoy to fly it!
Over and out from my side, Rgds to everybody out there MD11 f
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it is rubbish comment
and if LH is opening a new joint venture, it is neither the problem of the union nor yours personally.
and I say again: THE AIRLINE DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY LH GUY
and if you want to fly with them, then apply - that's it.
I know the contract with AL, and they do not have all your lovely things at LH - by the way, if you as LH guys are too expensive, then YOU should think about something - I know, what am talking about as am running a company beside flying.
I personally think, that Mr. Mayrhuber has the whole right, to create a new company, jobs and prospections. And if you do not like it at LH main, then change the company, apply, go through the interview as every other colleague out there, but do not think even 1 second, that something belongs to you or others just because of a joint venture.
cheers
and if LH is opening a new joint venture, it is neither the problem of the union nor yours personally.
and I say again: THE AIRLINE DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY LH GUY
and if you want to fly with them, then apply - that's it.
I know the contract with AL, and they do not have all your lovely things at LH - by the way, if you as LH guys are too expensive, then YOU should think about something - I know, what am talking about as am running a company beside flying.
I personally think, that Mr. Mayrhuber has the whole right, to create a new company, jobs and prospections. And if you do not like it at LH main, then change the company, apply, go through the interview as every other colleague out there, but do not think even 1 second, that something belongs to you or others just because of a joint venture.
cheers
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@airwjo
I did not expect you to understand a political issue. Crew cost with a Cargo Airline is peanuts! It doesn´t matter what they pay! But, pay peanuts get monkeys, if you go to work for peanuts.........!? Yes, LH can open up new companys, employ whoever, maybe with a little conversation and a good deal with his loyal 5500 Pilots, we don´t need to employ whoever! And that will be worked out with the german Pilot Union VC, and thanks god, not with you! And now, as the parked MD11 is cleaned, I enjoy flying MD11 until I convert to B777 with my LH contract, my last 50 cents for you
I did not expect you to understand a political issue. Crew cost with a Cargo Airline is peanuts! It doesn´t matter what they pay! But, pay peanuts get monkeys, if you go to work for peanuts.........!? Yes, LH can open up new companys, employ whoever, maybe with a little conversation and a good deal with his loyal 5500 Pilots, we don´t need to employ whoever! And that will be worked out with the german Pilot Union VC, and thanks god, not with you! And now, as the parked MD11 is cleaned, I enjoy flying MD11 until I convert to B777 with my LH contract, my last 50 cents for you
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oh tks for the 50cent, can buy me a chewing gum
have fun and good luck with your conversion to LH777
your mind and aggressive way shows me again, why i don't like unions, looking for themselves, as usual.
i hope, not all are like you, so leave the AL guys their peace, they are doing a good job and do not interfere in business things, you don't understand.
cheers
have fun and good luck with your conversion to LH777
your mind and aggressive way shows me again, why i don't like unions, looking for themselves, as usual.
i hope, not all are like you, so leave the AL guys their peace, they are doing a good job and do not interfere in business things, you don't understand.
cheers
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Dear MD11F and all,
after reading this topic I have to admit that I understand both sides...
1. When I finished my ATP (I´m german) the bloody first gulf war started and I applied around the world and I had a recommendation from Cpt. M, beeing the chief training of the B737 in LH and also from Mr. R to join LH. However it turned out that I was not good enough for the Union for two reasons.
Not done the LH flight school, and also no Abitur but the BOS (Entitels to FH eg Dipl Ing).
On the other hand I experienced a total protectionism within the other EU countries... I applied with KLM, AF, IB, etc and they all told me that I´m welcome when I speak their language....
So what is it about? IMHO every company has the right to set up their requirements since THEY pay you the money at the end of the month. There are also political issues involved like:
If eg. LH has to choose between a french or a german pilot, the should take the german guy (when both have the same qualifications) since they would at these days lower the numer of unenployed people and thus lower the expenses the german state has to pay for an unemploqed guy...
AF, IB, etc would do the same.
Finally I decided to leave the german market because if you are not in LH you have to fly for food... I joined CV many years ago and I had a career I would never have had with LH.
I know quite many guys from LH, most of them former LHCG. They all left CGO and went to the main line... and they like it.
MD11F, sorry to say so, but the fact is that you sit in a golden cage with the option to change after 5 years to the main line (pls don´t tell me anything different, otherwise you are not what you pretend to be) and if you have a problem flying with the not to beautiful girls in LH, sorry this is not acceptabel. Most of us do the job because we love it, but never forget about the boys and girls not having a job for the time beeing... You, MD11, are inside the Manteltarifvertrag and you really don´t have to worry, at least for the time beeing, to loose your job.
To the VC: why did the LH club not intervene that Aero Logic´s CEO came from CV and that also his right hand was former CV fleet chief and in the end the chief Flt Ops is the former LTU VP Flt OPS (of course he try´s to get in his mates from LTU since he knows what he get´s)....
Basically you can forget about any avi job in germany unless you are with LH or (I don´t know the conditions) Aero Logic. Flying for AB? You better drive a taxi and have more money at the end of the month.
Think about it
HURZ
after reading this topic I have to admit that I understand both sides...
1. When I finished my ATP (I´m german) the bloody first gulf war started and I applied around the world and I had a recommendation from Cpt. M, beeing the chief training of the B737 in LH and also from Mr. R to join LH. However it turned out that I was not good enough for the Union for two reasons.
Not done the LH flight school, and also no Abitur but the BOS (Entitels to FH eg Dipl Ing).
On the other hand I experienced a total protectionism within the other EU countries... I applied with KLM, AF, IB, etc and they all told me that I´m welcome when I speak their language....
So what is it about? IMHO every company has the right to set up their requirements since THEY pay you the money at the end of the month. There are also political issues involved like:
If eg. LH has to choose between a french or a german pilot, the should take the german guy (when both have the same qualifications) since they would at these days lower the numer of unenployed people and thus lower the expenses the german state has to pay for an unemploqed guy...
AF, IB, etc would do the same.
Finally I decided to leave the german market because if you are not in LH you have to fly for food... I joined CV many years ago and I had a career I would never have had with LH.
I know quite many guys from LH, most of them former LHCG. They all left CGO and went to the main line... and they like it.
MD11F, sorry to say so, but the fact is that you sit in a golden cage with the option to change after 5 years to the main line (pls don´t tell me anything different, otherwise you are not what you pretend to be) and if you have a problem flying with the not to beautiful girls in LH, sorry this is not acceptabel. Most of us do the job because we love it, but never forget about the boys and girls not having a job for the time beeing... You, MD11, are inside the Manteltarifvertrag and you really don´t have to worry, at least for the time beeing, to loose your job.
To the VC: why did the LH club not intervene that Aero Logic´s CEO came from CV and that also his right hand was former CV fleet chief and in the end the chief Flt Ops is the former LTU VP Flt OPS (of course he try´s to get in his mates from LTU since he knows what he get´s)....
Basically you can forget about any avi job in germany unless you are with LH or (I don´t know the conditions) Aero Logic. Flying for AB? You better drive a taxi and have more money at the end of the month.
Think about it
HURZ
Last edited by HURZ; 21st Jul 2009 at 08:35.
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Flying for AB? You better drive a taxi and have more money at the end of the month.
So put it that way, the LH guys get 50% of the AL jobs, of course DHL guys want the same, but on this argument the LH guys have to leave all Condor jobs right now! Condor does not belong to LH anymore, so leave the jobs and give them to who they belong to, everyone outside of LH, "our jobs"
NOW its getting funny.
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Looks like it all comes down to politics...aarrgh
I flew to LEJ a few weeks ago and saw a shiny LH MD11 parked. Will they park more of them everytime Aero Logic gets more t7 ?
I flew to LEJ a few weeks ago and saw a shiny LH MD11 parked. Will they park more of them everytime Aero Logic gets more t7 ?
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It´s only shiny because I clean it every day, and by the way, I have a brilliant view out of my "golden cage" I can see a lot of whiners out there, but also some people who have LH inside knowledge, they know it is time to stop outsourcing MD11 and other jobs to anybody! Those anybodys hate us for our good working condition, now they want the B777 jobs with Aerologic, and ask for ID travel on LH!!! No LH guys, but LH benefits???? We have to stop this, I like my golden cage,
Cheers MD11f
, and by the way, I have a brilliant view out of my "golden cage" I can see a lot of whiners out there, but also some people who have LH inside knowledge, they know it is time to stop outsourcing MD11 and other jobs to anybody! Those anybodys hate us for our good working condition, now they want the B777 jobs with Aerologic, and ask for ID travel on LH!!! No LH guys, but LH benefits???? We have to stop this, I like my golden cage, Cheers MD11f
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@EAM
jepp, Condor is sold to Arcandor! Most of the Pilots belong to the general LH contract, if LH would pull them out tomorrow, Condor will go bankrupt within a Month! Therefore all the LH guys return to LH on a Plan, but this is also inside knowledge! You can apply for a FO job at new Condor, on Air Berlin T+C´s, good luck, maybe your parents can support you a little!
MD11f
jepp, Condor is sold to Arcandor! Most of the Pilots belong to the general LH contract, if LH would pull them out tomorrow, Condor will go bankrupt within a Month! Therefore all the LH guys return to LH on a Plan, but this is also inside knowledge! You can apply for a FO job at new Condor, on Air Berlin T+C´s, good luck, maybe your parents can support you a little!
MD11f
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MD11F I think you have an attitude problem, never had problems with LH cargo guys seem all to be good and nice chaps, although I only know the ones from German Cargo now LH cargo....
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@belgianconnection
nice little nickname, is this the belgian "deutschland über alles"?
Wrong, I am not disrespecting anybody, and totally wrong, I do not fail anybody´s Sim Asessment! I have trained many CPT´s and Fo´s, and barly non failed anything! I understand your side, there are jobs, you want it! All these new jobs are created only because MD 11 jobs are going to be lost! That is my job! Do you think we give up our jobs without any fighting? No!!!! These jobs are in Germany, German Company, LH 50%, I work for LH for 20 years, I think these jobs belong to all the LH Pilots, and as said before, all DHL Pilots are invited to fight for their 50%. 1 more thing, I have good knowledge first hand whats happening here, so it is a rumor network, I guess it´s the wrong forum to discuss. Wish everybody a happy life, hope for your understanding, will fight for my job! Rgds MD11f
nice little nickname, is this the belgian "deutschland über alles"?
Wrong, I am not disrespecting anybody, and totally wrong, I do not fail anybody´s Sim Asessment! I have trained many CPT´s and Fo´s, and barly non failed anything! I understand your side, there are jobs, you want it! All these new jobs are created only because MD 11 jobs are going to be lost! That is my job! Do you think we give up our jobs without any fighting? No!!!! These jobs are in Germany, German Company, LH 50%, I work for LH for 20 years, I think these jobs belong to all the LH Pilots, and as said before, all DHL Pilots are invited to fight for their 50%. 1 more thing, I have good knowledge first hand whats happening here, so it is a rumor network, I guess it´s the wrong forum to discuss. Wish everybody a happy life, hope for your understanding, will fight for my job! Rgds MD11f
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The point is that this NEW airline is neither LH or DHL. It is a new entity. Therefore the point of 2 German Owners=German Company=German Pilots (LH exclusive right apparently
) is moot. Protectionism in its worst form. LH pilots are neither more nor less entitled to these jobs than any other appropriately qualified pilot with the right to live and work in the EU.
This airline does not represent an erosion in LH T&Cs, or in DHLs. They set the rate, and if it is not acceptable to LH pilots, then they are welcome to sling their proverbial hooks and look elsewhere. The view that it operating LH routes also does not really hold either, as mon-fri the routes flown are entirely DHLs - so by my reckoning, the pilot body should be 5/7 DHL pilots, whose expertise in this sector has been entirely shunned for German cronyism.
) is moot. Protectionism in its worst form. LH pilots are neither more nor less entitled to these jobs than any other appropriately qualified pilot with the right to live and work in the EU.This airline does not represent an erosion in LH T&Cs, or in DHLs. They set the rate, and if it is not acceptable to LH pilots, then they are welcome to sling their proverbial hooks and look elsewhere. The view that it operating LH routes also does not really hold either, as mon-fri the routes flown are entirely DHLs - so by my reckoning, the pilot body should be 5/7 DHL pilots, whose expertise in this sector has been entirely shunned for German cronyism.
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Who ho ho ho , I havn't got anything to do with " deutshland uber alles" but this said I didn't know there where MD11F jobs at stake here and thought these would be 2 seperate airlines with no job losses at all!
so I take my words back about MD11F (you don't have an attitude problem next beer is on me)
If it is true that LH will shift LH cargo in favour of Aerologic it is totaly understandable that MD11F fights for its rights... and its thanks to the LH pilots and pilot association that at LH they have good T&C's , all the credit to them!!!
I think nobody should miss the point that LH management is indeed trying to cut costs here have you seen T&C at Aerologic?
Pilots should not bitch on eachother put fight together, if you like it or not industrie has been degrading T&C all over , in my little opinion we look more like whores iso the "allure" it had ones before.
Face it we pay for our 100000 € frozen ATPL and some pay for their typerating we get payed **** wages unless you are in a major..... like LH , Air France etc.....
you must be crazy to go for a pilotjob..... guess I will sign in to the nuthouse now.......
btw: somebody was speaking about "duetschland uber alles" its the same in Spain, Holland, France, Italy, etc.... they will only hire you when they really need you .
so I take my words back about MD11F (you don't have an attitude problem
next beer is on me)If it is true that LH will shift LH cargo in favour of Aerologic it is totaly understandable that MD11F fights for its rights... and its thanks to the LH pilots and pilot association that at LH they have good T&C's , all the credit to them!!!
I think nobody should miss the point that LH management is indeed trying to cut costs here have you seen T&C at Aerologic?
Pilots should not bitch on eachother put fight together, if you like it or not industrie has been degrading T&C all over , in my little opinion we look more like whores iso the "allure" it had ones before.
Face it we pay for our 100000 € frozen ATPL and some pay for their typerating we get payed **** wages unless you are in a major..... like LH , Air France etc.....
you must be crazy to go for a pilotjob..... guess I will sign in to the nuthouse now.......
btw: somebody was speaking about "duetschland uber alles" its the same in Spain, Holland, France, Italy, etc.... they will only hire you when they really need you .
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Dear collegues,
As a LH pilot i would like to respond to previous posts.
I’ve been reading this thread and want to clear up something:
We do NOT disrespect any other pilots, from any kind of company.
Our management, either LH or LH cargo, is guilty of outsourcing. Jobs are being created and expansion is taking place in Germany and abroad somewhere else (EMB/B777), while jobs are being cut inside LH (A300/B737/MD11). This is a FACT and we can not accept this. And we won’t accept this.
Sure you can say that all of this is not of this time and that we should be more fair to others, but this is not the issue, we are solely fighting for OUR jobs, not more. This you fellow pilots must understand.
Please check out this short movie, it really gives a good view of the situation. Maybe it helps understanding our position.
YouTube - British Airways Pilots warning from America on Open Skies
Our Union understands our position for sure and i am sure they (we) will take action! Its just a matter of time. I’m really happy to be on this side though, it’s really comfortable.
Best regards,
As a LH pilot i would like to respond to previous posts.
I’ve been reading this thread and want to clear up something:
We do NOT disrespect any other pilots, from any kind of company.
Our management, either LH or LH cargo, is guilty of outsourcing. Jobs are being created and expansion is taking place in Germany and abroad somewhere else (EMB/B777), while jobs are being cut inside LH (A300/B737/MD11). This is a FACT and we can not accept this. And we won’t accept this.
Sure you can say that all of this is not of this time and that we should be more fair to others, but this is not the issue, we are solely fighting for OUR jobs, not more. This you fellow pilots must understand.
Please check out this short movie, it really gives a good view of the situation. Maybe it helps understanding our position.
YouTube - British Airways Pilots warning from America on Open Skies
Our Union understands our position for sure and i am sure they (we) will take action! Its just a matter of time. I’m really happy to be on this side though, it’s really comfortable.
Best regards,