Crosswind limit 747-400F
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Crosswind limit 747-400F
Today EK-Cargo flight DXB-DUS was diverted to FRA. Reason given from EK staff was that pilot decided to divert due to crosswind
METAR at the time showed wind 150/18 knots with gusts 31 knots, runway in use 23
All other flights at the time landed without prob.
My question (as ground crew) : Was it a sensible decision by the crew to divert, resulting in 100+ tons of cargo to be trucked FRA-DUS now ?
I know, Atlas had that runway overrun in DUS a few years back, but would 31kts really be a safety risk for a 747 with 2700mtrs available runway?
Thanks for comments
METAR at the time showed wind 150/18 knots with gusts 31 knots, runway in use 23
All other flights at the time landed without prob.
My question (as ground crew) : Was it a sensible decision by the crew to divert, resulting in 100+ tons of cargo to be trucked FRA-DUS now ?
I know, Atlas had that runway overrun in DUS a few years back, but would 31kts really be a safety risk for a 747 with 2700mtrs available runway?
Thanks for comments
From a 744F ops manual:-
Takeoff and Landing Crosswind Limitations
Runway Surface Condition Takeoff / Landing Crosswind
Component - Knots
Dry 35
Wet 25
Standing Water/Slush 15
Snow - No Melting 15
Ice - No Melting 15
Takeoff and Landing Crosswind Limitations
Runway Surface Condition Takeoff / Landing Crosswind
Component - Knots
Dry 35
Wet 25
Standing Water/Slush 15
Snow - No Melting 15
Ice - No Melting 15
Last edited by Flightwatch; 19th Jan 2009 at 21:41.
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X-wind limits will be the airlines' SOP's and may not coincide with the manufacturer's recommended limits, nor other airline's limits. The reason for diverting remains with the Captain, as always! The first 747 I flew had T/O limit (dry) of 40 kts and 35 kts landing (also dry). The last 747 I flew had a limit of 30 kts T/O and Ldg (dry). These were not Boeing's limits. Wet or slippery conditions would further lower the limits.
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Cargo-dus, why don't you concentrate on your own job and let the experts get on with theirs. If the Captain decided to divert then he had far more information, knowledge and experience available to him than you in your office.
You have not told us if there were any MEL items for him to consider, what the weather was like, any thunderstorms, how much fuel he had, crew limitations, new on type etc etc.
You have not told us if there were any MEL items for him to consider, what the weather was like, any thunderstorms, how much fuel he had, crew limitations, new on type etc etc.
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Come on Fly747, the guy just asked a reasonable question. I think the reason he asked it here was to get information from us 'experts' You could make your point without having a go at the guy.
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There are a couple of system failures that can reduce the crosswind limit down to 10 kts or even 5 kts. Examples are failure of one or even both rudder ratio changers.
So with a stedy x-wind component of about 18 kts and gusts of about 30 kts there might have been a good reason not to land in DUS just for a technical reason.
So with a stedy x-wind component of about 18 kts and gusts of about 30 kts there might have been a good reason not to land in DUS just for a technical reason.
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It may well have been a good operational plan.
Our company has wet crosswind landing limits of 32knots BUT only 25 knots take off limit.
If the Captain knew that the conditions were to stay for a while or even get worse, the plane could have been grounded for a while.
Our company has wet crosswind landing limits of 32knots BUT only 25 knots take off limit.
If the Captain knew that the conditions were to stay for a while or even get worse, the plane could have been grounded for a while.
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@ Fly747
Of course I donīt know all aspects involved in aircraft ops
But u may imagine a lot of customers asking why shipment is delayed by one day when the weather at the time appeared to be pretty insignificant.
Thanks to everyone for helpful feedback
Of course I donīt know all aspects involved in aircraft ops
But u may imagine a lot of customers asking why shipment is delayed by one day when the weather at the time appeared to be pretty insignificant.
Thanks to everyone for helpful feedback
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First, the Atlas 747 that was involved in the DUS incident ran into unreported black ice and no braking on the runway...over 70 accidents on the local roadways that morning.
As to crosswinds...the issue there is gusts and the chance of an outboard engine pod strike. One could select a lower flap setting and higher approach speed, but that eats runway and burns brakes.
Bottom line...better the customer get the freight in one piece than broken or burned up on the end of the runway. The customer will survive.
As to crosswinds...the issue there is gusts and the chance of an outboard engine pod strike. One could select a lower flap setting and higher approach speed, but that eats runway and burns brakes.
Bottom line...better the customer get the freight in one piece than broken or burned up on the end of the runway. The customer will survive.
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It's only a "recommended" limitation based on Boeing's "demonstrated" cross wind landings during airplane certification. Some regulatory authorities or individual operators impose their own crosswind operating limitations. The B74main gears are stressed [and approved] to touch down in a crab, if necessary.
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The B74main gears are stressed [and approved] to touch down in a crab, if necessary
If the skipper was new or lost his nerve, or if some ops limitation kicked in then a go-around was in place.
The airplane itself is pretty forgiving however.
That being said, a B-767 is much easier to land in a strong x-wind and a DC-8-70 is a bit more challenging.
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CR2,
As I'm only looking out for your next oral on your checkride I don't want you to bust do to mis-stating a limitation. The 40 knots is correct for the ground wind limits on all doors. However, the 60 is not -- it's 65 knots. So get those doors open before the hurricane winds of 75 knots come in and you'll be fine.
As I'm only looking out for your next oral on your checkride I don't want you to bust do to mis-stating a limitation. The 40 knots is correct for the ground wind limits on all doors. However, the 60 is not -- it's 65 knots. So get those doors open before the hurricane winds of 75 knots come in and you'll be fine.
Thanks 
