Atlas/AABO
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Cato was a consultant before coming to AAWW and was hired as a contractor for the Atlas initial contract negotiations and union busting. Later he became a VP operations because many he had to work with at AAWW told him to kiss off because they don't report to him when he ordered things done when he was just a contractor/consultant.
Cato found himself on the way out when B Flynn was brought in as CEO due to his general character and how things were done in general with the work force. You generally don't come in and fire everyone at one time. Bad business stability and bad for the stock. You'll note a number of VP's etc started leaving over the next year after Flynn's appointment but didn't notice due to their lower impact on our day to day stuff. Cato was pretty well entrenched due to the convoluted structure he set up with AACS/AABO, Polar, the ongoing grievances, merger and multitude of self constructed things to help ensure his continued employment to manage it and screw with the labor. Eventually he stepped on his penis one too many times with Flynn by forgetting his position and not keeping his ego in check thinking that he was indispensable. Forced his termination somewhat earlier than expected before they had an immediate replacement installed which is now Carlson. Court still out on him, but his history isn't promising. Few in those positions have rosey labor history.
Cato is still kept on in a consultant/witness basis due to the lack of records at AAWW on ongoing grievances that were initiated by the union during his tenure. So he self did ensure a continued trickle of income for himself and is still getting a check from time to time on what the company can't come up with evidence/info during processing of past grievances caused by Cato.
Of course, the conspiracy theories involving Bourne sound soooo much better and go sooo much further than the facts. Funny how they all seem to have been developed from one side of this Polar/Atlas equation and continue as an easy excuse of the situation. That repeated behavior by one group was probably one of the bigger driving forces of why we went Teamsters by what was a record setting decertification vote.
Cato found himself on the way out when B Flynn was brought in as CEO due to his general character and how things were done in general with the work force. You generally don't come in and fire everyone at one time. Bad business stability and bad for the stock. You'll note a number of VP's etc started leaving over the next year after Flynn's appointment but didn't notice due to their lower impact on our day to day stuff. Cato was pretty well entrenched due to the convoluted structure he set up with AACS/AABO, Polar, the ongoing grievances, merger and multitude of self constructed things to help ensure his continued employment to manage it and screw with the labor. Eventually he stepped on his penis one too many times with Flynn by forgetting his position and not keeping his ego in check thinking that he was indispensable. Forced his termination somewhat earlier than expected before they had an immediate replacement installed which is now Carlson. Court still out on him, but his history isn't promising. Few in those positions have rosey labor history.
Cato is still kept on in a consultant/witness basis due to the lack of records at AAWW on ongoing grievances that were initiated by the union during his tenure. So he self did ensure a continued trickle of income for himself and is still getting a check from time to time on what the company can't come up with evidence/info during processing of past grievances caused by Cato.
Of course, the conspiracy theories involving Bourne sound soooo much better and go sooo much further than the facts. Funny how they all seem to have been developed from one side of this Polar/Atlas equation and continue as an easy excuse of the situation. That repeated behavior by one group was probably one of the bigger driving forces of why we went Teamsters by what was a record setting decertification vote.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 20th Aug 2009 at 18:43.
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Nitty
Thank you for substantiating what I previously posted. Despite Fr8Dog's charge that I'm smoking funny substances, I think you've proven the validity of my post.
We at the telephone company appreciate it.
Thank you for substantiating what I previously posted. Despite Fr8Dog's charge that I'm smoking funny substances, I think you've proven the validity of my post.
We at the telephone company appreciate it.
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Reply to Nitty
"We have heard of the Polar group trying to initiate a DFR against the Teamsters since before the decertification finalized. Verified after the Polar side refused to cough up their accessed funds to their new Teamster representation after decertification of ALPA. The Teamsters side fully expected this and planned for it. Polar leadership threatened it day one after single carrier status was determined by the NMB."
Nitty, I don't know why you think this is a big deal. The accessed funds are in escrow for the purpose they were collected for in the first place. To defend the participants (merger committee) in the merger. Until the combined seniority list is activated that money must stay in escrow. It was never under ALPAs control why should it be under IBTs? Barring any lawsuit about the seniority list it will be refunded to the members who made the payments. As far as a DFR I wouldn't blame the PFEs if they worked on that but they would be better served just working on getting a reasonable settlement from AAWW. The best offer that was given under ALPA was three months salary. That's an insult to the long term employees that made the Polar an airline from the ground up. I don't know what the attorney fees have been so far but they could have probably given them one to two years salary and been ahead of the game. I do agree with your comments about Cato, he basically wore out his welcome. But like any good bureaucrat he made himself somewhat indispensable for at least the short time.
Nitty, I don't know why you think this is a big deal. The accessed funds are in escrow for the purpose they were collected for in the first place. To defend the participants (merger committee) in the merger. Until the combined seniority list is activated that money must stay in escrow. It was never under ALPAs control why should it be under IBTs? Barring any lawsuit about the seniority list it will be refunded to the members who made the payments. As far as a DFR I wouldn't blame the PFEs if they worked on that but they would be better served just working on getting a reasonable settlement from AAWW. The best offer that was given under ALPA was three months salary. That's an insult to the long term employees that made the Polar an airline from the ground up. I don't know what the attorney fees have been so far but they could have probably given them one to two years salary and been ahead of the game. I do agree with your comments about Cato, he basically wore out his welcome. But like any good bureaucrat he made himself somewhat indispensable for at least the short time.
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Why do I waste my time?
"BELOWMINS
Nitty
Thank you for substantiating what I previously posted. Despite Fr8Dog's charge that I'm smoking funny substances, I think you've proven the validity of my post".
That is not what you alluded to as far as Cato’s involvement. Read Nitty’s post again slowly this time.
Hey, at least the phone company still pays a pension.
Nitty
Thank you for substantiating what I previously posted. Despite Fr8Dog's charge that I'm smoking funny substances, I think you've proven the validity of my post".
That is not what you alluded to as far as Cato’s involvement. Read Nitty’s post again slowly this time.
Hey, at least the phone company still pays a pension.
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Between 3point and L-38's conspiracy theories, I can't figure out which one is funnier. Cato was toast in 2005. But Booby and Boy Wonder screwed that up because they was too stupid to listen to anything but the voices in their heads.
The great conspiracy theory about Bourne makes a LOT of sense. In fact, as much as Prater's rantings that he took the IBT job because Bourne wasn't ALPA ExAdmin. Bourne has over 55,000 that he represents...Prater has ???? and is out of money in the MCF.
Booby and Boy Wonder said it in 2003. Two or three hundred job losses were acceptable if it meant that THEY never wore an Atlas uniform. You got sold out by your own leadership. You had more than one opportunity to do something and you didn't, because you bought into their greed and thought you could take Atlas' airplanes, routes and customers just because you thought they were a birthright.
Your airline was DOA before GE stepped up to underwrite the purchase of the 400's with their engines. You had "Miss Piggy" and a bunch of hangar queens...Booby's own words.
Booby swore to ALPA that AAWW would be "on their knees begging" within 48 hours of your strike. The only one on his knees was Booby, less than 36 hours into the 30 day cooling off...he sold you out then.
The Atlas guys saved your butts by supporting you, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK. Why? Because AAWW was more than willing to let you fade away. It cost them less to have you on strike than to have you flying half empty scheduled flights.
Yep, the whole worlds out to get you. But Dan Katz will save you. Just keep sending him those checks..........
The great conspiracy theory about Bourne makes a LOT of sense. In fact, as much as Prater's rantings that he took the IBT job because Bourne wasn't ALPA ExAdmin. Bourne has over 55,000 that he represents...Prater has ???? and is out of money in the MCF.
Booby and Boy Wonder said it in 2003. Two or three hundred job losses were acceptable if it meant that THEY never wore an Atlas uniform. You got sold out by your own leadership. You had more than one opportunity to do something and you didn't, because you bought into their greed and thought you could take Atlas' airplanes, routes and customers just because you thought they were a birthright.
Your airline was DOA before GE stepped up to underwrite the purchase of the 400's with their engines. You had "Miss Piggy" and a bunch of hangar queens...Booby's own words.
Booby swore to ALPA that AAWW would be "on their knees begging" within 48 hours of your strike. The only one on his knees was Booby, less than 36 hours into the 30 day cooling off...he sold you out then.
The Atlas guys saved your butts by supporting you, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK. Why? Because AAWW was more than willing to let you fade away. It cost them less to have you on strike than to have you flying half empty scheduled flights.
Yep, the whole worlds out to get you. But Dan Katz will save you. Just keep sending him those checks..........
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"Yep, the whole worlds out to get you. But Dan Katz will save you. Just keep sending him those checks"
WTF? . . . Send what to who? . . . . Islamy - all past Atlas/ Polar interaction is obvious history - history of which we all have/own our own version. . . . What's somewhat important here is - Can our collective lesson's of the past be defined and applied toward our future?
(By chance, if you were referring to any legal fight between the Polar FE's and AAWW / IBT - D Katz is not involved, as all action by them is independent).
Last edited by L-38; 29th Aug 2009 at 16:20.
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"D-LZ 130
So are the first 3 -8s still going to be leased to a EU carrier? I wonder if there will ever be one in 5y colors".
Where do you guys come up with this stuff??
There are not even any flying yet, and you think that there are leases for the airframes already?
The 6 767's will all be in Atlas colors and they will be here early 2010, way before the -8 ever flys.
So are the first 3 -8s still going to be leased to a EU carrier? I wonder if there will ever be one in 5y colors".
Where do you guys come up with this stuff??
There are not even any flying yet, and you think that there are leases for the airframes already?
The 6 767's will all be in Atlas colors and they will be here early 2010, way before the -8 ever flys.
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Think about it..... Atlas Air is an ACMI Carrier. Or, to put it another way, Atlas Air's fleet exists for leasing.
With the exception of very long term leased aircraft, their fleet all carries the Atlas colour scheme.
It stands to reason, therefore, that the new airframes are most likely to carry the 5Y scheme.
With the exception of very long term leased aircraft, their fleet all carries the Atlas colour scheme.
It stands to reason, therefore, that the new airframes are most likely to carry the 5Y scheme.
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Having fun yet?
"The B767 in Titan colors is very pretty...I like the green, appeals to the Irish in me! Nice to see so many new paint jobs out there".
Not sure why there are always a couple of D__K heads out there that like to stir up trouble. But after 40 years in this business, I have found that there are always the 10% that always seem to be there.
D-LZ 130, What a putz you are! (Go look it up)
Not sure why there are always a couple of D__K heads out there that like to stir up trouble. But after 40 years in this business, I have found that there are always the 10% that always seem to be there.
D-LZ 130, What a putz you are! (Go look it up)
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D__K head, huh?
You know, perhaps you are right...I was only commenting on aesthetics, but am deeply sorry if I touched a nerve...these are such trying times, and I should have considered the feelings of some among us who are perhaps sensitive to the implications of the decisions of airline managers, which may or may not have been enabled by certain forces beyond the control of labor.
Just kidding. Tool.
You know, perhaps you are right...I was only commenting on aesthetics, but am deeply sorry if I touched a nerve...these are such trying times, and I should have considered the feelings of some among us who are perhaps sensitive to the implications of the decisions of airline managers, which may or may not have been enabled by certain forces beyond the control of labor.
Just kidding. Tool.
Last edited by D-LZ 130; 3rd Sep 2009 at 20:26.
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The Senior VP of Flight OPs stated the same in Dec '08-Jan '09 then followed it up with "depending on the economy". With BA collecting A380's do you think they'll need the -8's?
bpp
bpp
