Hercules Military and civy differences.
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CAA and engine fire bottles...?
Dan Air (UK) operated 727-100s under G- registry... despite 2 fire bottles for 3 engines.
Never heard that a 727 had more fire bottes as per said CAA standards.
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For the 747s (Classic) both P&W and RR engine airplanes had 2 fire bottles per engine. However for the 747 with GE engines, most have only 2 fire bottles per wing so for the RH wing, as an example, the 2 fire bottles can be selected to nš 3 or nš 4 engine. I understand that "2 fire bottles per engine" was offered as an option to some 747/GE powered customers.
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Boeing is a champion in "differences and customer options" - need tons of notes to remember them all.
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I admit that CAA requirements go often a step further than FAA airworthiness requirements. But in that case, why did they approve the suppression of doors L-3 and R-3 (overwing) during the early 1980s, on the 747 Classics operated by BA...?
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Happy contrails
Never heard that a 727 had more fire bottes as per said CAA standards.
xxx
For the 747s (Classic) both P&W and RR engine airplanes had 2 fire bottles per engine. However for the 747 with GE engines, most have only 2 fire bottles per wing so for the RH wing, as an example, the 2 fire bottles can be selected to nš 3 or nš 4 engine. I understand that "2 fire bottles per engine" was offered as an option to some 747/GE powered customers.
xxx
Boeing is a champion in "differences and customer options" - need tons of notes to remember them all.
xxx
I admit that CAA requirements go often a step further than FAA airworthiness requirements. But in that case, why did they approve the suppression of doors L-3 and R-3 (overwing) during the early 1980s, on the 747 Classics operated by BA...?
xxx
Happy contrails
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Zaherk
Some diff's between Civ and Mil Herc's:
1.Low oil press warning lights for GB+Eng.
2.Beta warning lights to show when in the ground range.
3.Recycling cans to prevent fuel draining overboard on Eng shutdown.
4.Civ version of the T56= Allison 501-D22A Eng's.
There are a few more, have to get the books out, never operated the Mil Herc.
1.Low oil press warning lights for GB+Eng.
2.Beta warning lights to show when in the ground range.
3.Recycling cans to prevent fuel draining overboard on Eng shutdown.
4.Civ version of the T56= Allison 501-D22A Eng's.
There are a few more, have to get the books out, never operated the Mil Herc.
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few more differences
THE CIVIL HERC HAD AN EXTRA THROTTLE POSITION TO THE EARLIER MILITARY HERCS, NAMELY GROUND START. THE ENGINE TEMPS WERE HOTTER IN THE MILITARY T 56'S, 1080 VS 1077, ETC. A LOT OF THE CIVIL HERCS HAVE PARA DOORS EVEN ADDITIONAL ESCAPE HATCHES FWD OF THE WING. HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS ARE DUAL ON ALL FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEMS, IF BOTH FAIL THEN MANUAL REVERSION, 365 MANUAL TURNS TO GET THE FLAPS FULLY DOWN, NOT SO HARD IN A PANIC. THE UNDER CARRIAGE MANUAL RELEASE MAY HAVE BEEN MODDED FROM THE FOUR BOLT RELEASE TO A SIMPLER COUPLING. STILL ONE OF THE SAFEST TO FLY. 
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As a comparison, using manual reversion in the sim on the 727 gives heavier than normal flight controls but more reasonable control forces.
As for anti-ice on the vertical tail, I was under the impression that it covered most of the vertical tail. The CAA was willing to certify the 727 with no anti-ice protection on any of the tail at all.
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C130 Anti-icing systems
JammedStab is correct in his assertion that the C130 (at least those on which I operated) have the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer anti-iced. The Wing and Empenage Anti-ice system takes engine bleed air from the cross-wing manifold and by means of solenoid controlled/pneumatically operated valves allowing hot air to be ejected into the wing leading edges (between engines and outboard of engines #1 and #4) and to the horizontal and vertical stabilizer leading edges. The system is never used on the ground. Normal operations where icing conditions are expected to be encountered would see they system used for a short period before reaching icing conditions to ensure no moisture, which could freeze, is in the pneumatic control lines. The system is designed to be used as an Anti-ice system, not a De-ice system. The Radome and Engine Air inlets are also anti-iced using bleed air. The Props and Spinners are electrically anti-iced. Never having operated the C130B I have no argument with Renier, however I considered the C130A with T56A-11's as fitted to the RAAF C130A models was a "Sports car" compared to the C130E. The C130H is still a formidable aircraft and 50 years of operations with the RAAF without one single hull loss says much for the aircraft, the crews and the level of maintenance the RAAF enjoys.
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Main question though for a civvy pilot: What do I have to do to fly one? Which companies have them and are they hiring. In case I loose the job I have now I'd like to do something more bush than I'm doing right now 
.
/LnS
. /LnS
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For Old Fella
Man! You are one sad dude!
God I have been SO trying to forget all that stuff . . . BUT when it was your first aircraft, you put so much more effort into all the irrelevant stuff don't you?
It was like stepping back 30 years (more actually) reading the Empennage anti/de-ice stuff - I mean, who but the Yanks would USE a term like that?
Nostalgia is definitely not what it used to be . . .
Keep up the good work, it really WAS a lot of fun landing on the grass and frightening the sheep. Mind you, I wasn't being shot at then, perhaps just the odd farmer with a shotgun
God I have been SO trying to forget all that stuff . . . BUT when it was your first aircraft, you put so much more effort into all the irrelevant stuff don't you?
It was like stepping back 30 years (more actually) reading the Empennage anti/de-ice stuff - I mean, who but the Yanks would USE a term like that?
Nostalgia is definitely not what it used to be . . .
Keep up the good work, it really WAS a lot of fun landing on the grass and frightening the sheep. Mind you, I wasn't being shot at then, perhaps just the odd farmer with a shotgun
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For Dengue-Dude
Not sure on what basis you believe I am 'one sad dude'. I am sorry if I have given you nightmares bringing back old stuff which you consider irrelevant, stuff I learned forty years ago. BTW, what would you call the system? I am yet to find a post made by you which does not try and 'put down' posts made by others.
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Have seen an old time FE use wing anti-ice biefly on the ground. I found that a lot of guys use the system as a de-ice(after accumulation) system rather than an anti-ice system.
I thought that there were some military C-130's with beta lights.
I thought that there were some military C-130's with beta lights.
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De-icing v's Anti-icing
DD. Thanks. Read and understood. Just getting a bit precious in my old age I guess. JammedStab. I know some F/E's might have used the system as a De-icer on the ground. Problem is that without airflow over the leading edges is is very easy to overheat the area. It is for that reason that Lockheed advise non ground use. Probably get away with it 99% of the time if closely monitored, but not for this guy.
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Sensible comment
Must agree with Old Fella (sorry!)
Problem we had with the grenade valves that controlled the de-icing was that they weren't the most reliable in the world. It would have made me feel VERY uncomfortable trying to explain to the hierarchy why I selected it ON on the ground and the valve stuck open - indeed the Radome Anti-ice was de-activated in the RAF for this reason.
It's Catch 22 really. The more you used the system, the more reliable it became, but the hot air never did the Herc wiring a lot of good - especially as the aircraft aged.
And again, the Vickers hyd pumps were not good. When isolated they had a thermally controlled run-around circuit, so when re-instated often did not give full pressure (flow) immediately.
That's enough sensible stuff - I'm having withdrawal symptoms
Problem we had with the grenade valves that controlled the de-icing was that they weren't the most reliable in the world. It would have made me feel VERY uncomfortable trying to explain to the hierarchy why I selected it ON on the ground and the valve stuck open - indeed the Radome Anti-ice was de-activated in the RAF for this reason.
It's Catch 22 really. The more you used the system, the more reliable it became, but the hot air never did the Herc wiring a lot of good - especially as the aircraft aged.
And again, the Vickers hyd pumps were not good. When isolated they had a thermally controlled run-around circuit, so when re-instated often did not give full pressure (flow) immediately.
That's enough sensible stuff - I'm having withdrawal symptoms
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Memories...
You guys are bringing them back. I've forgotten a lot of systems stuff on the Herk, but I haven't forgotten how much I loved flying her for nine years with SAT. Someone said it's a big cub. He's right.
Used to practice total hydraulic failure ILS's into SFO. Worked like they said it would. Never had the guts to land one like that, but I flew to a quarter mile final several times. You had to push up the inboards to initiate the flair. My favorite aircraft to this very day.
Used to practice total hydraulic failure ILS's into SFO. Worked like they said it would. Never had the guts to land one like that, but I flew to a quarter mile final several times. You had to push up the inboards to initiate the flair. My favorite aircraft to this very day.
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I flew the civil "G" model for ten years and was a check airman and DPE on the airplane. We had some aircraft with over 60,000 hours, while on the third generation wing. Properly maintained (like any aircraft) they're a winner for their task of flying outsize cargo to remote places.
Never once had to shutdown an engine inflight in almost 6,000 hours. Lost the Utility hydraulic system once and had the FE crank the gear down (it wouldn't freefall).
Never once had to shutdown an engine inflight in almost 6,000 hours. Lost the Utility hydraulic system once and had the FE crank the gear down (it wouldn't freefall).
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Hmmm, at least 10 shutdowns in 2,000 hours although most were precautionary. Three were not. Prop overspeed, prop malfunction trying to go into reverse on landing, and a mysterious flameout right at touchdown. For the last two, after consultation, they seemed to operate just fine when started up again although I believe appropriate maintenance was done later. Utility hydraulic loss twice as well.
Last edited by JammedStab; 9th Oct 2008 at 02:02.
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Many shutdowns in 2500 hours of flying the airplane. Runaway props, oil leaks, fuel leaks, broken throttle cables. Took off from Howard AFB once and started losing hydraulic fluid from 1,3 and 4! A very quick RTB found sheared pump shafts, broken lines. Would've been lots of fun if we'd been farther out.
Best airplane ever built.
Best airplane ever built.
