UPS to take over flying DHL packages in Europe and Asia?

[Rock_On]

I just found the following website Bad Decision and noticed the reference to the DHL airplane that recieved a missle hit in Baghdad. Can anybody tell me if this was an Astar or ABX Air airplane? I am assuming Astar since I don't think ABX Air operates Airbuses.

In 2003 on a mission for the Department of Defense, shortly after takeoff from the Baghdad Iraq Airport. A DHL aircraft was struck by an anti-aircraft missile.

The crew survived.

Ask yourself this question, under the new management of today do you think Deutsche Post/DHL or UPS would put their greed before the lives of American fighting men and women?

[hvydriver]

It was neither. It was an EAT crew out of BRU. They also fly the A300B4 out of there. Those boys did a heck of a job!

[Rock_On]

Another question I have is; What are the chances UPS could take over the entire sort in Wilmington and fly UPS airplanes in and out of Wilmington for a combined DHL/UPS sort? UPS could then shut down one of their other regional sorts, either PHL or RFD and at the same time save thousands of jobs. Politicians would be happy, DHL would be happy, UPS would be happy and most of the Wilmington ground employees would be happy too except Astar and ABX Air pilots who would lose out big time. Personally I think a better option for UPS/DHL might be to establish a sort in CVG since it is closer to Louisville and more people to hire from in that area. CVG would also be a great reliever airport for Louisville.

[Rock_On]

It was neither. It was an EAT crew out of BRU. They also fly the A300B4 out of there. Those boys did a heck of a job!

Thanks, I didn't see that mentioned on the website! Isn't UPS is in CRAF too? I think UPS does a lot of flying for the military and are not most UPS pilots ex-military?

Further more, I am having a hard time understanding the intent of the following question quoted below. As far as I know UPS has always been a very patriotic Company more than willing to always help out the military. I understand military charters are very profitable and companies like to do them since fuel is paid for both ways by the military.

Ask yourself this question, under the new management of today do you think Deutsche Post/DHL or UPS would put their greed before the lives of American fighting men and women?

[hvydriver]

On the troops question, the suggestion is that by eliminating two carriers that fly for the DOD, (Astar and ABX) DPWN is putting greed before the US national security. Which, since they are a German company, I'd suspect they give not one whit about. You sure do ask a lot of questions. This is work. Mind if I ask who you work for?

[Opsisgr8t]

You may be overlooking the fact that DHL has a very large operation set up in Bahrain to support the US forces by operating in excess of 20 flts per day moving the mail etc for those troops into several locations in Iraq and Afghanistan

This is the same operation which involved the A300 mentioned above - an operation which despite a shootdown and countless other incidents DHL has continued to operate and support constantly since July 2003 to this day.

None of which has anything to do with Astar or ABX by the way....

[hvydriver]

>You may be overlooking the fact that DHL has a very large operation set up in Bahrain to support the US forces by operating in excess of 20 flts per day moving the mail etc for those troops into several locations in Iraq and Afghanistan

This is the same operation which involved the A300 mentioned above - an operation which despite a shootdown and countless other incidents DHL has continued to operate and support constantly since July 2003 to this day.

None of which has anything to do with Astar or ABX by the way.... <

Interesting, Opsisgr8t. Could you perhaps explain to me how a non-US carrier is able to operate US Mail segments under DOD contract?

[Rock_On]

Looks like DPWN is planning on doing it the "TNT way" in North America

Looks like DPWN is planning on doing it the "TNT way" in North America, Canada and Mexico. I am not aware of TNT using dedicated airplanes in the US, so if the #4 integrator in the world isn't forced to fly their own volume (dedicated TNT airplanes), why should DHL be forced to do so???

http://group.tnt.com/annualreports/a...-chapter03.pdf

Express Rest of the World
The Express Rest of the World business provides door-to-door
express delivery of documents, parcels and freight worldwide in
all areas outside Europe and from these areas to Europe. TNT’s
worldwide coverage extends to more than 200 countries. TNT
is also building its position in Asia and has further improved
service levels between Asia and Europe.
Express Rest of the World operates in a way similar to that of
TNT’s Express Europe business line, but relies primarily on
airlift by commercial passenger airlines for linehaul
transportation links. However, in many of the countries TNT’s
global Express services are augmented by domestic and regional
express delivery services.

In North America, TNT provides international Express
services in 15 of the top metropolitan areas. Building on its
own delivery network in the North-east business corridor,
TNT continues to improve next-day delivery services to major
business centres, including New York, Washington D.C.,

Chicago and Toronto.

[hvydriver]

Like I asked before Rock On, who do you work for?

[Day_Dreamer]

Rockon
The Baghdad aircraft was owned and operated by European Air Transport (Belgium) with an all Brussels based flight crew.
They carried out an almost impossible approach and landing and received the credit they deserved.

DHL Air, EAT Belgium and now EAT Germany operate a mixed fleet of B.757's and A 300 aircraft shortly adding 3 B.767-300ER to the DHL Air operation.

As for the Willmington hub closure and the transfer of the flights to UPS, while I feel extreemly sorry for those who will loose their jobs ( I have been there 3 times) I must say that this has been caused by the eternal quest for the big profit which has caused management to forget people in favour of the accountants year end figures..

The losses from the US operation has been used in Europe to minimise pay rises below inflation for the workers.
Yet significant profits have been made, which do not reflect in the average mans pay packet going to the management bonuses instead.

DPWN / DHL is a worldwide operation and losses from a particular sector need drastic rectification, and that is what happened.
Agreements with the airlines and unions (US) I know nothing about but maybe a positive cost cutting exercise would still not of saved the operations in their current form.
There has never been dialog with senior management at DPWN level so a shut down based purely upon cost was the logical decision.

The answer would have been long ago a worldwide pilot representation to the DPWN board.
Now its too little too late.

Whilst I do not agree that you all roll over and give up the fight, I must be realistic and say that you have very little hope of a reprieve, even with government pressure being brought to bear.
With the presidential change in the USA soon and with it administrative changes the time frame is against any reversal of the decision before its implemented.

My feelings are to the families who will have to suffer and will need support.
Yet where did the god of the big buck originate ? you cant blame another operator from whatever country following the US example.

Recession is upon us and jobs will be very hard to come by so every effort to keep those jobs I support.

Good Luck you will need it.

[Rock_On]

TNT/UPS - early-stage talks about a potential tie-up have been held in recent days

Looks like there may be movement in the purchase of TNT by UPS. If this deal does happen the combined European market share for UPS/TNT will be a whopping 17+8 = 25%! This would be 9% bigger than DHL. I don't think UPS can risk letting TNT go to FedEx.

http://group.tnt.com/annualreports/annualreport07/annual_report/chap-2.html
TNT has the highest market share in Europe (17%), followed by DHL (16%), UPS (8%) and La Poste (7%).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/08/10/cnups110.xml

UPS plots bid for TNT

By Louise Armitstead and Ben Harrington
Last Updated: 10:56pm BST 09/08/2008

America'a biggest delivery giant United Parcel Service (UPS) is plotting a €10bn (Ł7.8bn) bid for Dutch rival TNT, a move that could herald the long-awaited consolidation in the global express-delivery business.
UPS has made an informal approach to TNT, its European rival and one of Royal Mail's biggest competitors in Britain. Despite initial reluctance from TNT, early-stage talks about a potential tie-up have been held in recent days, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.
Soaring fuel costs have hit global courier businesses hard. The share prices of the main firms - UPS and FedEx in American and TNT and DHL in Europe - have suffered in recent months, making consolidation both cheaper and compelling.
UPS, which has a market value of $66.24bn and dominates the American delivery market with rival FedEx, has appointed investment bank Morgan Stanley as adviser.
The American company has also brought in strategy consultants AT Kearney to carry out a detailed report on a potential deal with TNT.
Insiders said that AT Kearney has now finished its report and delivered to Morgan Stanley, whose bankers are now spearheading discussions with TNT.
TNT, which is being advised by Goldman Sachs, serves more than 200 countries and employs 161,500 people. The firm, which is listed in Amsterdam and has a market value of €9.6bn, last year reported €11bn in revenues and an operating income of €1,192m.
Both UPS and FedEx have eyed TNT's parcel business for several years but are said to have been put off bidding for the firm because of its slower-growing postal division.
Sources said that UPS' plans to buy TNT could include selling its postal division, possibly to a private equity buyer. It may instead decide to team up with a buyout firm. It is thought CVC, the European buyout giant, could be interested because it already owns stakes in Belgium postal operator De Post-La Post and Post Danmark, a Danish postal company.
A deal with TNT would deliver to UPS substantial cost savings as well as a vast European reach - something it has been trying to slowly build up in recent years. The company recently forged closer ties to TNT's main rival, DHL, through its agreement to ferry the Deutsche Post unit's packages between North American cities.
Sources close to the situation said discussions were being held about the future management of a UPS tie-up with TNT. The American firm is run by Scott Davis, who joined UPS in 1986. Ben Verwaaayen, former chief executive of telecoms group BT, also sits on the board of UPS alongside Rudy Markham, the former chief financial officer of Unilever.
The Dutch target is led by Peter Bakker, who has been chief executive since 2001.
The industry's biggest deal was done three years ago when Deutsche Post - which owns the DHL express service - acquired Exel, the UK-based logistics group, for Ł3.7bn.
On Friday, TNT's shares closed at €25.36, valuing the business at €9.6bn.

[Rock_On]

Wouldn't be surprised if Warren Buffet helps finance TNT purchase by UPS.

Further more I wouldn't be surprised if Warren Buffet i.e. Berkshire Hathaway participates in the financing of a potential TNT purchase by UPS. Berkshire Hathaway already holds a small position in UPS (1,429,200 shares) and very recently helped finance the acquisition of two other companies, namely;

Wrigley by Mars
Wrigley - Investor Relations - News Release=
Funding for the transaction includes approximately $11 billion from Mars, a $5.7 billion committed senior debt facility from Goldman, Sachs, and $4.4 billion of subordinated debt from Berkshire Hathaway, Inc. At closing, Berkshire Hathaway has committed to purchase a minority equity interest for $2.1 billion in the Wrigley Company subsidiary at a discount to the share price being paid to the stockholders of Wrigley.

and

Rhom and Haas by Dow Dow Acquires Rohm and Haas, Creating World’s Leading Specialty Chemicals and Advanced Materials Company
Financing for the acquisition includes an equity investment by Berkshire Hathaway and the Kuwait Investment Authority in the form of convertible preferred securities for $3 billion and $1 billion respectively.

[Rock_On]

What appears rather ironic is that if both the DHL and TNT deals happen, DHL will be providing UPS with a large chunk of the money (USD 10 Billion) towards the purchase of TNT. Also when/if upcoming antitrust hearings happen the focus might just suddenly shift from the DHL deal to the TNT deal because the DHL deal will look like chump change in comparison, at least if the agenda actually remains true antitrust concerns versus job losses in Wilmington.

[Rock_On]

One of the busiest Olympic sponsors this year is UPS.

Links to Chinese UPS 2008 Olympic ads. Seem pretty well done even though I don't understand a word of what they are saying.

Dow Jones Single Title Player (No Content)

Dow Jones Single Title Player (No Content)

[Rock_On]

UPS looks to China for M&A, downplays TNT talk

Not so fast..

UPS looks to China for M&A, downplays TNT talk | Deals | Reuters

UPS looks to China for M&A, downplays TNT talk

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:48am BST
BEIJING (Reuters) - Top global logistics firm United Parcel Service hopes to buy a firm in China and boost staff there in coming years, and said on Monday that paying billions for rival TNT would devalue its own shares.
UPS, a bellwether of the U.S. economy along with rival FedEx Corp, last month posted earnings in line with expectations but hit by rising fuel costs and a weak economy.
Trying to drive growth beyond a U.S. market that accounts for more than half its revenue, UPS will be opening two $180 million transport hubs in China and wants to nearly quadruple its staffing there in the next few years, hoping to serve growing demand for delivery services within a relatively untapped market.
"U.S. consumers are not buying, but I think the great opportunity for us internationally is business that never touches U.S. shores.," Dan Brutto, the president of the company's international business, told Reuters in an interview on Monday.
A TNT deal is "something that devalues our shares", he added. "But we always look at different things and try to fit into the puzzle."
Shares in TNT, Europe's No. 2 mail and logistics firm, leapt more than 6 percent on Monday after a Sunday Telegraph report that UPS was planning a 10 billion euro ($15.2 billion) bid.
UPS has doubled its headcount in China over the past 18 months to around 5,300, but expects that number to increase by at least 1,000 annually over the next 3-4 years, said Brutto.
It's now looking for acquisitions within the world's fourth largest economy, despite fears that Chinese growth will taper off over 2008 and 2009.
"You could say UPS China should really have 25,000 employees. The business is out there," Brutto said.
($=6.85 yuan)
(Reporting by Michael Wei and Kirby Chien, editing by Edwin Chan)

[org]

Question: how does a non us carrier operate for USPS?

They sub through Kalitta, but I'm not sure why it matters.

[layinlow]

It makes sense that UPS would want to be in China. Fed Ex bought a Chinese company and I am sure UPS will counter.

[hvydriver]

Actually Org, they also sub quite a lot through Astar Air Cargo. Without a US air carrier as route authority, those flights you're saying have nothing to do with Astar would not move. That's the point I'm getting at.

[Opsisgr8t]

Hvydriver

Kalitta are contracted by USPS to fly the material to the Middle East (BAH). DHL are subcontracted to perform the remaining part of the service and have been doing so for 5 years. no secret there either.....

Astar/ABX have nothing to do with this contract...

Astar did operate a schedule for a while but that was to supplement the core business uplift from BRU after the A300 daily flight was dropped due to lack of volume. After that Astar did some DOD flying through BAH, however again, that was not linked to the USPS contract.....

[hvydriver]

Opsisgr8t,

As you say. There are several DOD flights that are brokered by Astar for DHL. This is fact. There may be some that are done by Kalitta as well.