Will Atlas actions effect Polar as well?
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Will Atlas actions effect Polar as well?
Have heard that Atlas is pulling all of the Classic B74Fs out of
scheduled service, concentrating on Military and charters only.
Are there any lay-offs associated with this? and will this also affect
the POLAR side?.
Definitely not a good month for the FE positions, First Tradewinds,
then MK, then Gemini, now Atlas
scheduled service, concentrating on Military and charters only.
Are there any lay-offs associated with this? and will this also affect
the POLAR side?.
Definitely not a good month for the FE positions, First Tradewinds,
then MK, then Gemini, now Atlas
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Atlas actually had to recall furloughed FE's, and we have been hiring all year long for the 400 side of the operation. I heard that we have picked up many African charters lately, due to the grounding of MK.
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No, Atlas will claim the military flying they are doing is thier flying even though all the contracts are/or were under the Polar name. Its called contract flying. Good luck with that! Sorry to hear about Gemini, but Their case against their company is yet to be decided. Sounded like the cuboards were bare. Hope I'm wrong, because no union can get blood from a turnip.
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No, Atlas will claim the military flying they are doing is thier flying even though all the contracts are/or were under the Polar name.
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...and no one has questioned the Polar pilots right to grieve the parts of the contract that they feel the company has violated. What is being questioned is the constant delaying tactics - such as grieving the hotel choice for negotiations. What is also in question are some of the proposed remedies submitted by the Polar MEC that are specifically designed to hurt the Atlas pilot group.
An arbitrator will determine whether or not the company has met the parameters of a "complete operational merger." Anything you or I say here will not make one whit of a difference. The only reason to post counter arguments to such as above, is to correct the obvious misinformation and misdirection being espoused by some on this board at the direction of Robobbin.
For it is not the Atlas pilots that decide when and where, or what contracts we fly. It is not even for us to say which or how many of our aircraft are given to the Polar business unit. We accept that. So why continually attack the Atlas Pilots? Why can't Billy accept the fact that Polar was purchased for a reason; or several reasons? One of these may have been quick access to the military flying. Another may have been the Japan routes. We have all determined by now that it certainly wasn't for the profitability of the business model.
Instead posts such as his that continually snipe at the Atlas pilots for something they have no control over are divisive at best and really contribute nothing to the overall debate. One can only assume that this tactic is being used to further obfuscate the fact that there is no real roadblock to a merged list. This tactic is in fact another way to cause delays and to anger many in the hopes that someone will create an issue by their words or actions that would justify another grievance or another court case - hence another delay. It is the tactic of someone who knows he has a weak case and hope the delay will allow the whole shebang to be overcome by future events. Meantime the Atlas pilots suffer (as do the Polar pilots) with no contract and the possibility of a good contract further and further away due to the downward trend in the economy.
An arbitrator will determine whether or not the company has met the parameters of a "complete operational merger." Anything you or I say here will not make one whit of a difference. The only reason to post counter arguments to such as above, is to correct the obvious misinformation and misdirection being espoused by some on this board at the direction of Robobbin.
For it is not the Atlas pilots that decide when and where, or what contracts we fly. It is not even for us to say which or how many of our aircraft are given to the Polar business unit. We accept that. So why continually attack the Atlas Pilots? Why can't Billy accept the fact that Polar was purchased for a reason; or several reasons? One of these may have been quick access to the military flying. Another may have been the Japan routes. We have all determined by now that it certainly wasn't for the profitability of the business model.
Instead posts such as his that continually snipe at the Atlas pilots for something they have no control over are divisive at best and really contribute nothing to the overall debate. One can only assume that this tactic is being used to further obfuscate the fact that there is no real roadblock to a merged list. This tactic is in fact another way to cause delays and to anger many in the hopes that someone will create an issue by their words or actions that would justify another grievance or another court case - hence another delay. It is the tactic of someone who knows he has a weak case and hope the delay will allow the whole shebang to be overcome by future events. Meantime the Atlas pilots suffer (as do the Polar pilots) with no contract and the possibility of a good contract further and further away due to the downward trend in the economy.
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For it is not the Atlas pilots that decide when and where, or what contracts we fly . . . Why can't Billy accept the fact that . . .
Thanks' Whale! - that helps.
Look for a decisive ruling for/against management. . . now due in early August
Last edited by L-38; 20th Jun 2008 at 18:51.
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Sure as long as you repeat after me.
If - I - were - an - Atlas - Pilot - I - would - be - angry - too.
Angry that my Profit sharing went to purchase a money losing enterprise that drove us into bankruptcy and caused the furloughs of many of my fellow pilots.
Angry that, while hopeful that the Polar pilots would join us in negotiating with the company, they opted for a token 3% bribe to extend their negotiations.
Angry that their former MEC chair helped prevent us from striking by agreeing to fly six Atlas aircraft beginning the day after we would have struck.
Angry at the posting of the Scab Announcer list and the forming of the "strike breakers committee."
Angry at not being able to get to section six negotiations during a time when we would have had some economic leverage due to the delay tactics of the current Polar MEC.
Angry that the Polar strike was not a real strike but was specifically aimed at Atlas pilots.
Angry at the resolutions postured by the Polar MEC in their grievances that specifically target the Atlas pilots jobs and job security.
Angry at the suggestion by most Polar pilots and FEs that post on this board that Atlas pilots somehow had something to do with all of these business decisions that have caused the demise of Polar.
Polar pilots are hurting now because of the company actions. Conversely, the Atlas pilots are hurting due to the specific actions of the Polar MEC.
.... so repeat after me. All in unison now.
If - I - were - an - Atlas - Pilot - I - would - be - angry - too.
If - I - were - an - Atlas - Pilot - I - would - be - angry - too.
Angry that my Profit sharing went to purchase a money losing enterprise that drove us into bankruptcy and caused the furloughs of many of my fellow pilots.
Angry that, while hopeful that the Polar pilots would join us in negotiating with the company, they opted for a token 3% bribe to extend their negotiations.
Angry that their former MEC chair helped prevent us from striking by agreeing to fly six Atlas aircraft beginning the day after we would have struck.
Angry at the posting of the Scab Announcer list and the forming of the "strike breakers committee."
Angry at not being able to get to section six negotiations during a time when we would have had some economic leverage due to the delay tactics of the current Polar MEC.
Angry that the Polar strike was not a real strike but was specifically aimed at Atlas pilots.
Angry at the resolutions postured by the Polar MEC in their grievances that specifically target the Atlas pilots jobs and job security.
Angry at the suggestion by most Polar pilots and FEs that post on this board that Atlas pilots somehow had something to do with all of these business decisions that have caused the demise of Polar.
Polar pilots are hurting now because of the company actions. Conversely, the Atlas pilots are hurting due to the specific actions of the Polar MEC.
.... so repeat after me. All in unison now.
If - I - were - an - Atlas - Pilot - I - would - be - angry - too.
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I think that I understand you, Whale . . . and as I possibly become sympathetic, and also while Atlas operates military charter classic's that masquerade in Polar call signs while uncompensated Polar FE's sit at home
I know, I know, a friend of yours saw a Atlas plane use a Polar call sign once at RMS, but Polar is operating planes in Atlas colors, so.....?
Last edited by WhaleDriver; 20th Jun 2008 at 20:10.
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....but Polar is operating planes in Atlas colors, so.....?
I have yet to fly an aircraft in Polar colors. How many Polar guys have flown 516 or 416? Now if Atlas pilots were to strike would the Polar guys quit flying those aircraft? I wonder.
In one of their grievance remedies Robobbin want Holdings to transfer even more Atlas aircraft to the Polar Business unit. Seems they can't get enough of flying Atlas Aircraft.
Flying a call sign is one thing. In the freight industry it is fairly common. Southern Air flew JAL callsigns. World flew Air Canada call signs. I even saw a JAL aircraft flying a Dynasty call sign once. Now flying another company's aircraft, while accusing that company's pilots of being scabs???..... I guess, were it me, I would not be so quick to point fingers.
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Ageed Whalefr8. ACMI carriers do use the customer's call signs. And Polar is treated as a customer. As far as who is flying military freight. Many of the contracts are Fed Ex's and then passed along to other carriers Fed Ex getting a cut. Who flies the freight, Atlas or Polar,is of no concern..for now. Only the reliability.
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All this to do about military flying is based on a convenient premise I've seen expressed by the Atlas folks on this board. That premise is that military flying belongs to AAWH and they can assign it to whomever they choose. A very convenient premise as long as you are on the recieving end of the flying. Not so convenient should AAWH decide not to assign it to either Atlas or Polar but to some other entity of their choosing.
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All this to do about military flying is based on a reality I've seen expressed by the Atlas folks on this board. That reality is that military flying belongs to AAWH and they can assign it to whomever they choose. A very convenient reality as long as you are on the recieving end of the flying. Not so convenient should AAWH decide not to assign it to either Atlas or Polar but to some other entity of their choosing.
As for your last sentence; this is why any other union, any other labor group and anyone with half a brain seeks to achieve a single bargaining unit ASAP after an acquisition. This is why “single carrier” is a labor tool, not a management one.
But that would mean one less MEC, wouldn’t it? For some it is better to break all the china in the shop than let that happen.
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That premise is that military flying belongs to AAWH and they can assign it to whomever they choose.
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Fixed it for you.
As for your last sentence; this is why any other union, any other labor group and anyone with half a brain seeks to achieve a single bargaining unit ASAP after an acquisition. This is why “single carrier” is a labor tool, not a management one.
But that would mean one less MEC, wouldn’t it? For some it is better to break all the china in the shop than let that happen.
As for your last sentence; this is why any other union, any other labor group and anyone with half a brain seeks to achieve a single bargaining unit ASAP after an acquisition. This is why “single carrier” is a labor tool, not a management one.
But that would mean one less MEC, wouldn’t it? For some it is better to break all the china in the shop than let that happen.
I am sure you will get some s##t for it though 742
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Question; If single carrier is a labor tool and not a management tool, why are the slime merchants at AAWWH pushing for it? If what you say is true, I would have thought it would be the other way around.
Remember, the slugs at management are NOT your friends!!!! If their mouth is moving, they're lying.
Time for both parties to stop the bickering and focus on the enemy.
Come on guys, get it together.
Remember, the slugs at management are NOT your friends!!!! If their mouth is moving, they're lying.
Time for both parties to stop the bickering and focus on the enemy.
Come on guys, get it together.
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Seems like a silly question. If management can no longer divide and conquer; if we are all one solid unit with no venue for moving or transferring of flying or aircraft to motivate one group to act against the other - wouldn't that be better. Of course there are still 38 or so AABO pilots out there as well as the 40 Russian pilots allegedly recruited by an AABO crewmember, trained and type rated by Atlas just prior to the possible Atlas strike, and waiting in the wings for any kind of job action. So I suppose management will find a way to counter any solidarity move. Still seems like we would be better together than we are apart.
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Right.
Originally Posted by WhaleFR8
Seems like a silly question. If management can no longer divide and conquer; if we are all one solid unit with no venue for moving or transferring of flying or aircraft to motivate one group to act against the other - wouldn't that be better. Of course there are still 38 or so AABO pilots out there as well as the 40 Russian pilots allegedly recruited by an AABO crewmember, trained and type rated by Atlas just prior to the possible Atlas strike, and waiting in the wings for any kind of job action. So I suppose management will find a way to counter any solidarity move. Still seems like we would be better together than we are apart.
The merger will be good for the pilot group because it stops the whipsawing (at least for now); increases our "collective power" to collectively bargain; and most importantly brings fresh leadership.
Bottom line: None of us are going anywhere with the chemistry between our respective leaders. It's time for new leaders that represent all of us to management with a single voice--the merger will DO THAT.
And of course the merger is good for the company because it will realize new efficiencies.
Not everything that is good for the company is bad for the crew member. Reasonable people evaluate issues based on their intrinsic merits.
That's not being a company man; that's taking the personality out of the discussion which has had far TOO much influence.
Not all of us want to go to FedEx or UPS; some of us want this company to be around another 20-30 years.
Fire away.
Last edited by zerozero; 22nd Jun 2008 at 07:14.