Polar/Atlas The Saga Continues
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Belowmins
It looks like they will be filing single carrier status. The company did get the delivered seniority list that Polar mostly won launching a number of triggers for the merger on the ALPA NATIONAL SIDE.
That fits more decisively than the USAir/AWA requirements to do that as per the pre-posted link to that document by me. Guess you better call your MEC on what to think about that since you can't believe anyone else or draw conclusions of your own.
Not that I want to be a total jerk, the Atlas for Teamsters side has petitioned the Polar group in their last VARS message for cards. It appears they will be taking advantage of this to move everyone to a more productive union.
http://www.atlasforteamsters.com/the...s05282008.html
http://atlasforteamsters.com
It looks like they will be filing single carrier status. The company did get the delivered seniority list that Polar mostly won launching a number of triggers for the merger on the ALPA NATIONAL SIDE.
That fits more decisively than the USAir/AWA requirements to do that as per the pre-posted link to that document by me. Guess you better call your MEC on what to think about that since you can't believe anyone else or draw conclusions of your own.
Not that I want to be a total jerk, the Atlas for Teamsters side has petitioned the Polar group in their last VARS message for cards. It appears they will be taking advantage of this to move everyone to a more productive union.
http://www.atlasforteamsters.com/the...s05282008.html
http://atlasforteamsters.com
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 29th May 2008 at 17:31.
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Curious how just six weeks ago the Polar MEC was throwing their ALPA pins at John Prater and thumbing their noses at ALPA. Now, when Polar starts to toe the ALPA line, ALPA decides to go forward with the merger. I urge you all to read this:
All Crewmembers, this is Dave Allen with a Teamsters message for May 28, 2008.
Polar and Atlas crewmembers have a choice to make this week. Authorization Cards are due.
The merged seniority list was delivered to Atlas Headquarters today.
Polar crewmembers, you may be just a little bit shell shocked by now. ALPA implied that you would never merge, and now ALPA has crumbled, reversed course and succumbed to the pressure of the decertification. I was going to point out the inconsistencies of your MEC who now publicly support the ALPA decision to merge Polar and Atlas, but in the end I decided that would not be fair. Why? I suspect that ALPA National informed your MEC, that to continue to blast them would result in your MEC being placed in receivership, with a trustee appointed by ALPA. Your MEC, therefore really has no choice but to publicly support the merger.
Is this the union you really want to belong in, a union who changes course so easily and a union who can so easily control your MEC? What will happen when you need to stand up to the Company, will ALPA be there for you??? Or will they switch sides just as quickly.
I think that ALPA's will is broken forever. When the merged seniority list was given to the Company, it triggered the 270-day merger clock and a merger from this point is a certainty, it is not reversible. This is a legal watershed event. ALPA National’s fight against the merger has led you into a position that has lost jobs. ALPA National is supporting grievance actions against Atlas Air as an excuse to destroy your fellow union members, and ultimately is concerned with one thing, keeping our dues money.
ALPA National fought the merger with your jobs, these jobs are now lost by one very quick policy reversal. ALPA National caved so easily! I urge you to consider a life under ALPA, and I do mean under. You are a "B" carrier and will be treated as a non-legacy carrier, a "cargo hauler" as long as you remain at ALPA. We are all 2nd class members under ALPA. This is not how a Trade Union should treat its members.
The Atlas and Polar crews have a lot to gripe about... the Company, each other, past sins, the merged seniority list, etc. It is well past time that we put our two groups together and start the healing process. There is a link at the beginning of the text version of this message which leads to a paper on Trade Unionism.
I urge you to read and think about the impact it has on our situations. I fault ALPA National for allowing us to snipe at each other. Allowing our situation is not in keeping with true trade unionism. A trade unionist puts aside strong emotional issues when it will hurt his group or that of a fellow union crewmember. If you were told in the past that we would never merge, that was an opinion subject to debate. The debate is over. We are definitely merging now. We need to mend fences. Polar brothers and sisters, determine which union will serve you better, ALPA National or the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Ask yourself this question, will I be better off at ALPA in five years (if they survive) as a lonely cargo "B" carrier in a legacy airline paying much higher dues? Or better off in a cargo focused Teamsters organization where trade unionism is not just words on paper? A Teamsters union where there are no "B" carriers.
Polar crews; bring your strong scope clause and some of your work rules, enjoy our pay scale and the better contract we will achieve with our Teamster Local professional negotiator that does not have an IBT or ALPA legacy agenda, just our interests at heart. Join us. Fly any pattern your seniority will hold including all the DHL flying, rest easy knowing that Atlas Worldwide Holdings will be responsible to get you to work with gateway travel. Both MECs will be dissolved and new joint elections will be held. Join us today. Mail in an authorization card.
Goodbye until next time.
All Crewmembers, this is Dave Allen with a Teamsters message for May 28, 2008.
Polar and Atlas crewmembers have a choice to make this week. Authorization Cards are due.
The merged seniority list was delivered to Atlas Headquarters today.
Polar crewmembers, you may be just a little bit shell shocked by now. ALPA implied that you would never merge, and now ALPA has crumbled, reversed course and succumbed to the pressure of the decertification. I was going to point out the inconsistencies of your MEC who now publicly support the ALPA decision to merge Polar and Atlas, but in the end I decided that would not be fair. Why? I suspect that ALPA National informed your MEC, that to continue to blast them would result in your MEC being placed in receivership, with a trustee appointed by ALPA. Your MEC, therefore really has no choice but to publicly support the merger.
Is this the union you really want to belong in, a union who changes course so easily and a union who can so easily control your MEC? What will happen when you need to stand up to the Company, will ALPA be there for you??? Or will they switch sides just as quickly.
I think that ALPA's will is broken forever. When the merged seniority list was given to the Company, it triggered the 270-day merger clock and a merger from this point is a certainty, it is not reversible. This is a legal watershed event. ALPA National’s fight against the merger has led you into a position that has lost jobs. ALPA National is supporting grievance actions against Atlas Air as an excuse to destroy your fellow union members, and ultimately is concerned with one thing, keeping our dues money.
ALPA National fought the merger with your jobs, these jobs are now lost by one very quick policy reversal. ALPA National caved so easily! I urge you to consider a life under ALPA, and I do mean under. You are a "B" carrier and will be treated as a non-legacy carrier, a "cargo hauler" as long as you remain at ALPA. We are all 2nd class members under ALPA. This is not how a Trade Union should treat its members.
The Atlas and Polar crews have a lot to gripe about... the Company, each other, past sins, the merged seniority list, etc. It is well past time that we put our two groups together and start the healing process. There is a link at the beginning of the text version of this message which leads to a paper on Trade Unionism.
I urge you to read and think about the impact it has on our situations. I fault ALPA National for allowing us to snipe at each other. Allowing our situation is not in keeping with true trade unionism. A trade unionist puts aside strong emotional issues when it will hurt his group or that of a fellow union crewmember. If you were told in the past that we would never merge, that was an opinion subject to debate. The debate is over. We are definitely merging now. We need to mend fences. Polar brothers and sisters, determine which union will serve you better, ALPA National or the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Ask yourself this question, will I be better off at ALPA in five years (if they survive) as a lonely cargo "B" carrier in a legacy airline paying much higher dues? Or better off in a cargo focused Teamsters organization where trade unionism is not just words on paper? A Teamsters union where there are no "B" carriers.
Polar crews; bring your strong scope clause and some of your work rules, enjoy our pay scale and the better contract we will achieve with our Teamster Local professional negotiator that does not have an IBT or ALPA legacy agenda, just our interests at heart. Join us. Fly any pattern your seniority will hold including all the DHL flying, rest easy knowing that Atlas Worldwide Holdings will be responsible to get you to work with gateway travel. Both MECs will be dissolved and new joint elections will be held. Join us today. Mail in an authorization card.
Goodbye until next time.
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SPIN !
Kev, (FR8), George W. needs your help with Spin. One Hell of a job you do ! You tell almost believable LIES..............
Last edited by rob rilly; 31st May 2008 at 03:45.
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rob rilly,
Please tell us this...
Did ALPA send the merged seniority list to AAWWH or not ?
What will Polar MEC do if ALPA actually sent the merged list ?
Will Polar MEC go along with ALPA decision ?
If WhaleFR8 post is true then looks like Polar and Atlas will merge in 270 days from now.
Wow..... Looks like what Atlas guys saying was true and what Polar guys saying was false if this is the case..
Looking forward to hear from Polar guys answer.
Please tell us this...
Did ALPA send the merged seniority list to AAWWH or not ?
What will Polar MEC do if ALPA actually sent the merged list ?
Will Polar MEC go along with ALPA decision ?
If WhaleFR8 post is true then looks like Polar and Atlas will merge in 270 days from now.
Wow..... Looks like what Atlas guys saying was true and what Polar guys saying was false if this is the case..
Looking forward to hear from Polar guys answer.
Last edited by jetpilot007; 29th May 2008 at 15:47.
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I don't think the merged means a darned thing. What will company get? Two different CBA's, two different certificates, and two different unions. Atlas may make Cato happy and go to the Teamsters, but Polar won't. I don't see mixed crews for a long time, and if you ever do, the Polar no fly list will be very long.
Besides, with the economies of the world the way they are, and the price of fuel neither company may be around that much longer anyway. The first hint of more losses and the bean counters will close up shop, then open the doors again under a different name and non-union. Happened before, will happen again. Remember who runs these outfits, the lowest of life forms.
Besides, with the economies of the world the way they are, and the price of fuel neither company may be around that much longer anyway. The first hint of more losses and the bean counters will close up shop, then open the doors again under a different name and non-union. Happened before, will happen again. Remember who runs these outfits, the lowest of life forms.
Last edited by layinlow; 29th May 2008 at 17:28. Reason: wording
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I think that at least two of you are confused. Probably more considering the incorrect info being spread on one side of the equation. The merger will result in one pilot group, one union (probably Teamsters) and two airline certificates. Just like Air Micronesia and Continental.
Belowmins,
The petitioning of single carrier status could be done by any of the parties - the company, Atlas Union or Polar's union. A moot point now with ALPA National's delivery of the merged seniority list. Thus no need to do it now.
Polar guys can send in their cards along with the Atlas guys now.
Get one at :
Atlas for Teamsters
Belowmins,
The petitioning of single carrier status could be done by any of the parties - the company, Atlas Union or Polar's union. A moot point now with ALPA National's delivery of the merged seniority list. Thus no need to do it now.
Polar guys can send in their cards along with the Atlas guys now.
Get one at :
Atlas for Teamsters
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Better re-read the NMB Regs. Companies (carriers) cannot petition for single carrier status. It is a representational issue between labor groups.
NMB Regulations
19.1 Merger
Merger is a consolidation, merger, purchase, lease, operating contract, acquisition of control, or similar transaction of two or more business entities.
19.3 Notice to NMB
A Carrier should notify the NMB, in writing when any of the transactions described in Section 19.1 occur, or of:
1) an intent to merge, at the same time it files with the Surface Transportation Board (STB) or the Department of Transportation
(DOT); and
2) a completed merger including the date of the merger and the Carriers (or business entities) involved. Notices must comply with the service requirements of Section 1.2.
19.4 Initiation of Procedure for Determination of a Single Transportation System
Any organization or individual may file an application, supported by evidence of representation or a showing of interest (See Section 19.601-2), seeking a NMB determination that a single transportation system exists.
19.5 Merger Investigations
After an application is filed, the NMB will conduct a pre-docket investigation to determine whether a single transportation system exists. The investigation may take any form appropriate to the determination.
19.501 Factors Indicating a Single Transportation System
The following are some indicia of a single transportation system:
(1) published combined schedules or combined routes;
(2) standardized uniforms;
(3) common marketing, markings or insignia;
(4) integrated essential operations such as scheduling or dispatching;
(5) centralized labor and personnel operations;
(6) combined or common management, corporate officers, and board of directors;
(7) combined workforce; and,
(8) common or overlapping ownership.
From "The Railway Labor Act"
By Douglas L. Leslie
Chapter 2
B. Carrier Petitions for Investigation
Unlike in all other representations disputes, which must be initiated by a labor organization, a carrier facing a relevant change in corporate structure may, according to the NMB Merger Procedures, petition for investigation of a merger representations dispute. A carrier files with the Board at the time it applies to the Department of Transportations (DOT) or the ICC for approval of a transaction. The carrier must state when it intends to operate as a single transportations system or as separate systems. If the carrier does not intend to effect an operational merger immediately after obtaining DOT or ICC approval, but determines to do so at some later time, the carrier must again invoke the NMB's services at that later time, prior to the operations merger.
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Whale
The organizations the NMB is referring to are labor organizations.
Polar Air, Atlas Air and AAWH have been accused of a lot of things, but never of being labor organizations.
Read sentence one of your Chapter Two, carefully.
The organizations the NMB is referring to are labor organizations.
Polar Air, Atlas Air and AAWH have been accused of a lot of things, but never of being labor organizations.
Read sentence one of your Chapter Two, carefully.
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Guess you didn't read the part in the post "Polar Union - Atlas Union". Nor did you read about the USAPA filing and determination for single carrier status between USAir and AWA in the prior post in PDF format from the NMB. So obfuscating the facts with little non issues is wasting everyone's time. If one of a list of several entities can file, what is the deal over one "maybe" that wouldn't do it to be begin with.
So if you want to hear what you want to hear, call the Polar VARS line or Bobb Henderson himself as he states in the May 30th VARS. He doesn't want facts or the truth clouding your minds. He wants you to believe what he says vs reality.
So if you want to hear what you want to hear, call the Polar VARS line or Bobb Henderson himself as he states in the May 30th VARS. He doesn't want facts or the truth clouding your minds. He wants you to believe what he says vs reality.
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Unlike in all other representations disputes, which must be initiated by a labor organization, a carrier facing a relevant.....
So lets read carefully -
Unlike in all other representation disputes - this of course means that the single carrier status dispute is what they are discussing as this is the chapter in question
Which must be initiated by a labor organization - What they are saying here is that "all other representation disputes" mentioned above must be initiated by a labor organization.
a CARRIER - meaning the airline or railroad entity itself which has created the merger.
so to rephrase,
All other representation disputes, with the exception of the single carrier status, must be filed by a labor organization. In the case of a single carrier status dispute a carrier (airline or railroad) may initiate.......
And lets not forget the NMB regs themselves which are helpfully copied above for your viewing pleasure.
Any organization or individual may file an application, supported by evidence of representation or a showing of interest (See Section 19.601-2), seeking a NMB determination that a single transportation system exists.
sheeese do you guys need lessons in English interpretation as well as spelling and grammar?
So lets read carefully -
Unlike in all other representation disputes - this of course means that the single carrier status dispute is what they are discussing as this is the chapter in question
Which must be initiated by a labor organization - What they are saying here is that "all other representation disputes" mentioned above must be initiated by a labor organization.
a CARRIER - meaning the airline or railroad entity itself which has created the merger.
so to rephrase,
All other representation disputes, with the exception of the single carrier status, must be filed by a labor organization. In the case of a single carrier status dispute a carrier (airline or railroad) may initiate.......
And lets not forget the NMB regs themselves which are helpfully copied above for your viewing pleasure.
19.4 Initiation of Procedure for Determination of a Single Transportation System
Any organization or individual may file an application, supported by evidence of representation or a showing of interest (See Section 19.601-2), seeking a NMB determination that a single transportation system exists.
sheeese do you guys need lessons in English interpretation as well as spelling and grammar?
Last edited by WhaleFR8; 30th May 2008 at 22:22.