Polar/Atlas The Saga Continues

[dumbdumb]

Yes, they resigned as it was decided that the negotiation comittee's need to be fresh on both sides. From what I gathered off of the message is that your side is supposed to do the same.

[Beaver_Driver]

From what I gathered off of the message is that your side is supposed to do the same.

ahahahahah - now THAT is some great spin.

[layinlow]

That was their message at resignation.

[Beaver_Driver]

Sure, a message from the same guys that could not even be professional enough to sit in the same conference room and negotiate. Had to have an ALPA person running back and forth. Sorry but I wouldn't believe them if they said the sun was going to come up tomorrow.

There are no "sides." That committee was supposed to be one "combined" negotiating committee and they couldn't even be in the same room with each other.

Harbinger of things to come I guess.

[nitty-gritty]

How typical. Years have gone by saying their is no merger on the Polar side. Now that they see they have to do something by ALPA order, they resign on the Polar side. Good to see our dues going out the door for nothing but wasted time. How do I get on that Polar gravy train? 100 hours guaranteed per month and nothing to do but say "NO MERGER" and go into a fit on the floor during meetings once in a while. Then enjoy the rest of the month off.

Kind of a dead point anyway. These continuing games will be ended once the single carrier status is determined and the Teamsters are voted in.

Good to see that the Polar MEC and Negotiation committee made out so well money wise at our collective expense.

[dumbdumb]

Personally, I want single carrier. It couldn't happen soon enough and juding by some of the others I have talked to there are more here than are willing to admit it. It's time for change.

[LANCERDVR]

Shame on all of you bashers!

Your continuing bashing is maddening. The Polar MEC and negotiating committee have been in an ongoing battle to fend off Cato's tireless efforts to erode the Polar CBA since the day AAWH acquired Polar. The Atlas pilot group has been the benefiting recipient of Cato's work in that they are now flying a good percentage of Polars flights on a daily basis in violation of the Polar scope protections. The Atlas MEC has been gutless in going after the rights of the Atlas pilots for a new CBA and better terms on its existing CBA. In fact when the Atlas MEC realized that the Polar MEC could/should prevail in its scope fight, they (in conjunction with AAWH management) put together a successful effort to extort ALPA into submission by threatening to go Teamsters. I am embarrassed to be a part of a union with the likes of the Atlas union leadership and to anyone who would have the cohones to insinuate that all of the history is somehow the fault of the Polar MEC and Negotiating committee for not bowing to management. The reasons for the resignations were multi-faceted, the abandonment of ALPA National in standing up for the rights of the minority pilot group, the selection of a very inexperienced Atlas negotiator to chair the combined negotiating committee in lieu of a dual or neutral chairmanship proposed by the Polar group, the obvious bad blood created by the small group who spew misinformation on this website in order to subdue the minds of the ill informed, and most importantly the maintenance of there sanity and families. If ALPAs leadership were as strong and resolved as the Polar MEC and Committee members our profession wouldn't be in the disarray it currently finds itself. If we are to successfully move forward the likes of the few bashers on this website need to shut the ___ up and give the Atlas and new Polar negotiators a chance to succeed, or is it your true intentions to continue to work for Cato and squash this unions effort to move forward?

[Beaver_Driver]

The Polar MEC and negotiating committee have been in an ongoing battle to fend off Cato's tireless efforts to erode the Polar CBA since the day AAWH acquired Polar.

How so? What erosion? What have they done?

The Atlas pilot group has been the benefiting recipient of Cato's work in that they are now flying a good percentage of Polars flights on a daily basis in violation of the Polar scope protections.

Again, how so? Polar does not have the aircraft to fly half of what they "claim" is their flying. In fact the Polar MEC claimed that if they ever flew any routes or landed at any airports anywhere in the world then it was "their" flying and not Atlas's. Simple ingnorance of the world of business.

The Atlas MEC has been gutless in going after the rights of the Atlas pilots for a new CBA and better terms on its existing CBA.

Impossible to do in light of the fact that the company says there is a merger; arbitrator Harris said there was a merged list; even ALPA now agrees that there is a merger - the company refused to negotiate with only one group - especially in light of how they were screwed by the Polar MEC when they violated the back to work agreement after their ill conceived strike.

In fact when the Atlas MEC realized that the Polar MEC could/should prevail in its scope fight, they (in conjunction with AAWH management) put together a successful effort to extort ALPA into submission by threatening to go Teamsters.

Bovine Scat! The company had nothing to do with the Teamsters push. It was all Atlas pilots who were sick of dealing with a national union who continually favored one pilot group over another when they were supposed to be neutral.

I am embarrassed to be a part of a union with the likes of the Atlas union leadership and to anyone who would have the cohones to insinuate that all of the history is somehow the fault of the Polar MEC and Negotiating committee for not bowing to management.

Guess it is time to quit then.

The reasons for the resignations were multi-faceted, the abandonment of ALPA National in standing up for the rights of the minority pilot group, the selection of a very inexperienced Atlas negotiator to chair the combined negotiating committee in lieu of a dual or neutral chairmanship proposed by the Polar group,

hahahahahahaha now THAT is really funny - you mean experience negotiating the SALT II treaty is not negotiation experience. You have just proven how clueless you are. The Atlas negotiator has ten time the experience that Hair does.

the obvious bad blood created by the small group who spew misinformation on this website in order to subdue the minds of the ill informed,

Hopefully you are including yourself in that category.

... strong and resolved as the Polar MEC and Committee

don't forget ill educated and ill informed - do they still think that "revenue" is better than "profits?"

The last thing Hair did is tried once again to negate arbitrator Harris ruling by asking to have Polar pilots move up into slots created by retirements and resignations. Does he REALLY think we are that stupid. It is high time he left. He and Bobb cost both groups MILLIONS of dollars in bargaining power all to protect a scope clause that is going to be renegotated anyways. Spin it however you want - this debacle can be laid right at their feet.

[rob rilly]

Heaver Driver

Did I hear right? Did Robin and Captvac quit the negotiating committee?

When is the official announcement ? Is this more of your unfounded rumors ?

You give island boys a bad name.

[nitty-gritty]

I noted that the Atlas side put out a Joint Negotiations Report on the last round of negotiations with the company to it's membership. Did the Polar side pass it around over there?

[BELOWMINS]

Maybe the Chairman of the Joint Negotiating Committee should consider addressing his remarks to the Joint pilot group.

[Deltabravowhiskey]

Recv'd: Mon 8/18/2008 7:17 PM

To: All Atlas and Polar Crewmembers
From: The AAI-PAC Joint Negotiating Committee
Date: August 18, 2008

Fellow Crew Members,
Negotiations began this past week for a new joint collective bargaining agreement, an
important first step to improve the compensation, benefits and work rules for Atlas and
Polar pilots.

Meetings took place on Tuesday and Wednesday, August 12th and 13th, at the Rye Town
Hilton in Westchester County. Present for the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee were:
Paul Alves (JNC Chairman), Tom Butler and Philip Piraino from Atlas; and Robin Hair,
Allan Atherton and Craig Baker from Polar. Also present from ALPA were: ALPA
Executive Council representative Joe Fagone (FDX), Steve Nagrotsky, Esq. and Everett
Barber, Esq. from ALPA representation, and Bruce York, ALPA Director of
Representation. Management was represented by Jim Cato, VP Flight Ops/Labor, Chief
Pilots Mike Bryant, Scott Welty, Scott, Lindsay, Chief Scheduling Resources, and Curt
Acton, the newly assigned Controller in Operations.

At an introductory dinner meeting hosted by the Company, Atlas CEO Mr. Bill Flynn and
COO John Dietrich joined the group and Mr. Flynn expressed the Company’s
appreciation for the start of joint negotiations, and the Company’s commitment to the
efficient completion of bargaining and sincerely thanked crewmembers for their hard
work and dedication to the Company’s success.

The ALPA JNC presented the following opening contract proposals to management:

Section 9 – Miscellaneous
Section 10 – Management and Non-Flying Duty
Section 26 – General
Section 30 – Uniforms
and language for (but not the term of)
Section 34 – Duration

Management presented a proposed Letter of Agreement continuing our
Professional Standards Committee and setting out its operation, a proposal on
Section 18 – Association Representatives, and made certain counter proposals to the Association.

The next negotiating sessions are scheduled for September 16 – 18th. During the
intervening time, the JNC will continue preparation of sections to present to the
company. It’s the JNC’s plan to progress systematically from the administrative, to
operational, to the economic sections of the joint agreement. The JNC will continue to
keep you informed of our work and any developments.

Thanks for your continued support and interest in negotiations.

Fraternally,
Paul Alves, Robin Hair
Philip Piraino, Allan Atherton

Tom Butler, Craig Baker

It was addressed to Atlas and Polar, Polar leadership should have sent it out at the same time.

If the JNC does not yet have all the Polar contact information then they need to be provided with it.

DB

[layinlow]

What's to report? As far as I can see it was a kissy-kissy session

[joetommy]

I heard the company wants 17 days a month plus flexibility. Translation: 21 days a month plus commute.

[Beaver_Driver]

Ya think?

[layinlow]

The Atlas guys may not mind but I bet the Polar will never give their quality of life without a knockdown drag out fight.

[joetommy]

Beaver Driver

That is not industry standard.

[joetommy]

Beaver Driver

How many days a month should the most junior crewmember owe the company?

[742]

I heard the company wants 17 days a month plus flexibility. Translation: 21 days a month plus commute.

That has happened to me exactly once in the past 3 years. And there is considerable money involved in such an extension.

This is not to say that I like it, but you guys need to stop foaming at the mouth over rumors and start digging for facts. Then the real issues and problems will follow.

[layinlow]

True, so true, but you have to admit, 21 days on (you really think the company wll actually honor 17 days on) and then add the commuting is not what I call a quality of life proposal. 17 days including commuting with no extentions... yeah that is ok. Polar crews see nothing wrong with the Polar contract as far as days on are concerned. So you are telling me that Atlas prefers their scheduling to Polar's? Most crew shortages are due to scheduling incompetence and I see no reason to punish crews for the company's shortcomings. At Polar, when the 16th day hit, it was time to see the family.