Pax 757s flying for Parcel Carriers???

[AircraftOperations]

A colleague of mine happened to mention to me over a Christmas drink that he was pretty sure he'd seen UK registered "holiday charter" aircraft using parcel carrier flight numbers (e.g. TAY 123) on occasional ad-hoc flights.

I said that I found this strange, as I assumed that airlines would not want to have to rip out seats and adapt the cabin to accept loose cargo or bins.

I have since wondered whether it might have been a case that only the belly hold of the aircraft was being used, or if they are in fact staff movements.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[AEUENG]

I vaguely remember Lufthansa doing Deutsche Post runs at night with a Pax A300 out of Hamburg, Parcels were distributed throughout the cabin on seats and in overhead lockers plus of course the cargo holds were rammed full. I have not heard of this being done in the UK though as mentioned. It is a busy time of year though for TNT!

[Mr Angry from Purley]

In a previous life, pax A320 cargo holds full to the brim, and postal sack on each seat secured with the pax belt. Think was UK domestic so Post Office stuff around xmas

[nicop]

Hi,

I still remember it like yesterday when VIA Airlines flew there TU-154's on a three times weekly basis from Ostend to Sofia packed with sigarettes... on the seats in the bins etc... So these things happen

Greetings,

Nico

[Miles_JAN]

Or companies like Jet2 that run with a PAX config during the day, but by night take all the seats out, flip it to palletised and send it out with parcels in at night - Combi aircraft, seen quite often.

[AircraftOperations]

I am aware of Jet2's combi or QC operations, but thought that was only restricted to 737s. I didn't realise that 757s could be quick changed. (And the bigger the aircraft, the slower the "quick change" of course!)

Thanks for the replies so far regarding other ops. I wasn't aware that packages could be legally carried on seats.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by AircraftOperations

I wasn't aware that packages could be legally carried on seats.

There was a longstanding operation (although it has gone now) done by BMI between Heathrow and Edinburgh, chartered to the Post Office, departing in both directions at 2300 and thus arriving shortly after midnight. Over the years they worked up through DC9s, 737s and A320s, the operation actually having started off with BA Tridents in the 1980s before they lost the contract to their competitor.

They developed customised canvas containers which were attached to the seats and the mails were secured inside these (in addition to what was in the hold of course). Presumably the containers were CAA-approved. It seemed to take about 30 minutes to rig the cabin, and de-rig afterwards. The aircraft were the normal Heathrow to Edinburgh daytime fleet operating one final run of the day.

It was only in the last few years that this operation was replaced by dedicated freighter aircraft operating out of Stansted.

There was also (going somewhat off topic) a reverse operation in the USA where UPS had convertible 727s normally used on package service but they put the palletised seats in at weekends and operated holiday charter flights from the US down to the Caribbean, using contract flight attendants. The aircraft were in regular UPS livery and this led to a range of comments from the pax on boarding ("Will we have to sit on boxes ?; Will we have to sort mail ?").

[744rules]

I remember that in the late 80's BA had a 757 flying with cargo/courier only for some time.
The cargo was loaded in the holds only, but the main problem was the inbound curfew LHR. This made that the crew was stuck in Bru for hours.
Don't have a clue why they stopped this operation

[BelArgUSA]

Passenger A/C used as freighters

Let me scratch my hold head here... to add some info to the above.
xxx
Used to fly 727-100C and QC... with PanAm, we had a few of these. The 727-100C was (Boeing vocabulary) a convertible passenger aircraft. Essentially, the fuselage was provided with passenger windows, reinforced cargo floor and a side cargo door, and permitted these passenger airplanes to be used seasonally in freighter service. Took (probably) a couple of days to convert these airplanes from one configuration to the other.
xxx
So someone got smart at Boeing, came the 727-100QC (meaning Quick-Change as the seats and the galley were mounted on pallets, and this enabled PanAm from changing from passenger aircraft to freighter (or the opposite) in about 60 minutes. I remember some airplanes flying in passenger service during the day, and cargo at night.
xxx
The above concept was also found on the 737 type, as 737-200C and QC... Interesting to note that Sabena (which operated 727QC and 737QC) was behind the idea of palletise seats and rear galley of 747-100s, and install a cargo door, this idea becoming the first of the "747 Combis"...
xxx
Just be aware that some USA cargo operators have also operated "passenger airplanes" for parcel freight. I cannot recall which one (maybe Airborne...?) operating DC-9 (without a cargo door), but interior configured for loading small parcels through the regular passenger doors.
xxx
I also recall Boeing offering 757-200PF (?) probably meaning parcel freighter which was designed as cargo aircraft without a cargo door, loading parcels through passenger-size doors.
xxx
Douglas, I recall, had a similar idea... They offered the DC8-60PF (Douglas designation was passenger freighter) which were airplanes with a cargo floor (yes) but no cargo door and these airplanes were intended to be sold, years later, as freighters (after a conversion with cargo door).
xxx
Airline accountants probably killed the idea of convertible airplanes, as such airplanes were much heavier with their floor and cargo doors. Most of the 727s now operated by cargo airlines, have been stripped from any passenger aircraft equipment, although I recall seeing that UPS 727-100QC mentioned above, loading passengers in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, was in 2001...
xxx
A little anecdote, from long ago (1977). During a furlough, I flew a PanAm 707 leased to Sobelair (Belgium) for their charter flights. We often operated to Central Africa from Brussels. One time, we loaded some 500 (??) new car tires in the passenger cabin "between the seats". Upon arrival, in Zaire/Congo, as usual, nobody knew what to do with the tires. The ground staff (in Lubumbashi) offloaded the tires, rolling them down the aisle, then down the airstairs... Half of them of course rolled out of the airport limits...
xxx

Happy contrails

[Daysleeper]

in the late 80's BA had a 757 flying with cargo/courier only for some time.
....
Don't have a clue why they stopped this operation

It stopped cos its done by a dedicated freighter.
Just to chuck my 2p in the 757-200PF is the Production Freighter bought mainly by UPS. It varies from the 757-200SF Special Freighter, which are fully converted ex passenger aircraft mainly used by DHL. There was one combi (part pax part freighter) used to be in Nepal but no idea if its still there.
AFAIK there are no "Quick Change" 757s though an increasing number of pax variants are being permanently converted to freighters but if someone was going to go the QC route J2 would be a likely candidate.

I have since wondered whether it might have been a case that only the belly hold of the aircraft was being used, or if they are in fact staff movements.

I've seen an A330 called in to belly lift an a300 main deck after one went tech... guess you take whatever lift you can find.

[Heffer]

Think im correct in saying TAY is c/s for TNT Global Supply Logistics based LGG.
They operate QC and pax 733s on charter so maybe theyre airframe/crew down for whatever reason and utilising UK charter capacity to cover their passenger work.

[JW411]

TNT also operate two BAe 146 200QCs. Freight during the week and passenger flights for Belgian travel agencies at weekends.

[CargoOne]

Just a few years ago there was passenger A330 used on every night mail run between 2 big cities on Far East. Not sure if they used to fill seats with bags as well but bellyhold there is big enough and at that time there wasn't any suitable size freighters in this region.
I will edit the post once (if) I remember some more details about it.

upd. I'm almost sure it was Dragonair out of HKG, but cannot remember any more details.

[Continuous Ignition]

Pax acft flying cargo

Back a few years ago, the charter outfit I worked for out of KMSP would use their DC-10's to haul mail around Christmas time. The bellys were crammed full and sometimes we would place bags in each seat and cover with cargo nets.

[monkey lover]

Air2000 used to operate both the 757 and 320's on freight flights around the UK on behalf of the Royal Mail mainly STN-EDI. I think they were covering 748's that were tech or weather restricted. You could get about 5000kgs in the holds.