DAS Air Cargo
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 164
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From: Gatwick
Brokers
Gentlemen, not wishing to continue the arguement with regards to brokers. Ask yourself why are there are so many brokers ? Brokers deal directly with the freight fwders and sometimes directly with the actual shipper. In the case of a freight fwder going via a broker.......all cargo airlines advertise their telephone number and are not too difficult to contact directly. If you want a DC10F then there are a finite number available. Same for a B747F. Same for a AN12.....etc. Is it because the freight fwder is too lazy ? Or is it down to the invoice flow between the freight fwder /manager / individual looking for a " Harrods Hamper ".
Not all brokers are the same. Some are better than others.
In the case of A & A, yes agreed, they made alot of money. From memory and back in the late 80`s when is was the B707 in/out of LGW they both struggled to make it work......and work it did. Good for them if they made alot of money. DAS grew with their success.
I work for a Cargo Airline, nothing to do with DAS or A & A if you are wondering.
Not all brokers are the same. Some are better than others.
In the case of A & A, yes agreed, they made alot of money. From memory and back in the late 80`s when is was the B707 in/out of LGW they both struggled to make it work......and work it did. Good for them if they made alot of money. DAS grew with their success.
I work for a Cargo Airline, nothing to do with DAS or A & A if you are wondering.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Middle East
Brokers and things
Need to Know - You point is well made, half the all cargo airlines, wouldnt know a retail customer if he came up and slapped them on the face and said can i give you all my money - brokers have a big role to play and do. Also it gives an airline multiple distribution channels too...trawler fishing concept.!
I don't view A squared as a broker, they had a JV with DAS which appears to be very one sided. One person had the assets, fixed costs and liabilities, the other the customers and no fixed costs....one party still thriving..the other not....and when it got tough the JV was dissolved..apparently.
The real sad thing is that this industry doesnt seem to learn from its mistakes, many of the operators have a romantic notion of flying, which is fine, if you romantic notion is viable and if it was my airline I would want to know I was making money and not just activity for activities sake. I know of and deal with companies today, who are based in one part of the world and turn over their global commercial activity to someone in another part of the world. Thats just plane (excuse the pun) daft.!
I don't view A squared as a broker, they had a JV with DAS which appears to be very one sided. One person had the assets, fixed costs and liabilities, the other the customers and no fixed costs....one party still thriving..the other not....and when it got tough the JV was dissolved..apparently.
The real sad thing is that this industry doesnt seem to learn from its mistakes, many of the operators have a romantic notion of flying, which is fine, if you romantic notion is viable and if it was my airline I would want to know I was making money and not just activity for activities sake. I know of and deal with companies today, who are based in one part of the world and turn over their global commercial activity to someone in another part of the world. Thats just plane (excuse the pun) daft.!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Uganda
Lets put some real facts together on this , ANA were the GSA for Das , and were for many years , they all built the business together , in fact it was JCR who put A+A together , yes Das had the fixed costs , but Das would never have got where they were if it was not for ANA , for a long time they both needed each other , and the commercial and operational side of ANA gave Das alot of credibility ,they would not have had otherwise , I have dealt with both companies for many years , and they both made alot of money over the years , I think ANA invested their money alot better than what Das did , as in all JV's mistakes get made , the biggest mistake was a certain Director of Das giving notice to ANA as the GSA , and letting it be known in the market that they could be looking for a new partner....after that I think the writing was on the wall , plus I think in the end the "hunger" was gone at top levels of the company , but the staff there were second to none , and everybody worked as a team ,alot of ANA staff concidered themselves as DAS , its a shame to see them go , but in aviation , the small boys are getting smaller and going , and the big guys are growing
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Europe
What was ANA supposed to do when DAS got banned from EU ops (justified or not is another question)? Call it quits? Nah..
I'm pretty sure they would've loved to stick with DAS instead of turning to a MIA carrier for their biz. In addition to losing its "in-house" carrier, ANA found themselves in growing competition with Avient, who enlarged their fleet with..out of all...ex DAS aircraft. After the ban, DAS returned to a changed market, struggling to regain their position with ANA and in the market.
I'm pretty sure they would've loved to stick with DAS instead of turning to a MIA carrier for their biz. In addition to losing its "in-house" carrier, ANA found themselves in growing competition with Avient, who enlarged their fleet with..out of all...ex DAS aircraft. After the ban, DAS returned to a changed market, struggling to regain their position with ANA and in the market.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: UK
There are several sides to this story
Firstly every Airline has to choose a route to market; either direct sell to brokers and forwarders and sometimes end user or they appoint a GSA. The benefits of this are that a GSA isn't a fixed cost and all ready has a office network and client base.
Knowing how unreliable Cargo airlines, a lot choose the GSA route as one customer is easier to deal with than 60 plus all wanting to know if they've shipped.
One of the key things is a good broker can match add-hoc with timetable and the right equipment with the customer.
A good sales department would cost £100,000 minimum possibly £250K which is a lot to fund running 3 DC 10's
Firstly every Airline has to choose a route to market; either direct sell to brokers and forwarders and sometimes end user or they appoint a GSA. The benefits of this are that a GSA isn't a fixed cost and all ready has a office network and client base.
Knowing how unreliable Cargo airlines, a lot choose the GSA route as one customer is easier to deal with than 60 plus all wanting to know if they've shipped.
One of the key things is a good broker can match add-hoc with timetable and the right equipment with the customer.
A good sales department would cost £100,000 minimum possibly £250K which is a lot to fund running 3 DC 10's
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: entebbe uganda
das air cargo
sorry guys for bringing things up again , but has anyone realised that das air cargo was more about who was right who was wrong ,whether it be ANA or Das Air does any one of you think about the crews who tried to reach every possible route work and under pressure, no i will rest my case ,every single capt ,fo , fe , loadmaster worked their b....ll..oks off to try and make things right , but due to circumstances your best is not ,sometimes good enough
Das Air Cargo RIP
Das Air Cargo RIP
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 396
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From: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
news?
The 16th is the end of the four week period assigned by the administrators to find a buyer. So tomorrow should be the day when we find out what deal has been struck 
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 869
Likes: 1
From: on the move
Any DC 10 pilots looking for working, and still want three engines strapped to your back, aplly to EVA AIR, u get 5000 US a month average, and 8-9 block days off a month, as for routes, lots of USA, some europe.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: entebbe uganda
das air cargo
Flight Mechanic ,all very good you stating DC - 10 work around but most of these guys are not in the region of getting visa's easily , quote i hope i do not offend anyone please!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are all profesional DC-10 Captain's ,Fo's and Fe's but they are limited to where they can work and operate ,unless the company helps them to obtain the right paperwork ,
again sorry if i'm wrong or offend anyone from Das Air
They are all profesional DC-10 Captain's ,Fo's and Fe's but they are limited to where they can work and operate ,unless the company helps them to obtain the right paperwork ,
again sorry if i'm wrong or offend anyone from Das Air
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 396
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From: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
update
It seems there are still buyers interested. Hopefully a decision by Friday. All staff are still being paid as they wait.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,758
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From: It wasn't me, I wasn't there, wrong country ;-)
DAS a slight aside
Apologies first off.
Anyone remember Ray Williams last flyby at EGKB before retirement? Did he actually touch the mains onto concrete? looked like it from the hospitality tent!
PM me if anyone has a pic, mine lost in house move.
Anyone remember Ray Williams last flyby at EGKB before retirement? Did he actually touch the mains onto concrete? looked like it from the hospitality tent!
PM me if anyone has a pic, mine lost in house move.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 396
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From: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
latest news.....
Somebody has indeed agreed to purchase the entire DAS Air operation. 
It will take a week or two now to complete the legal and financial matters.
I have no idea though of who it is yet or what their intentions are.
It will take a week or two now to complete the legal and financial matters.
I have no idea though of who it is yet or what their intentions are.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 396
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From: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
At last.........
The official announcement on the new owner will be made on wednesday this week. Anybody care to make any guesses before we get to find out officially?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Uganda
I would like to know what they are buying? and what is Das? from my understanding the AOC and traffic rights are Dairo Air Services from Uganda , if it is Das that is being sold what do you get for your money? as without Dairo , I would not have thought there was much to sell... apart from 1 old DC10 with very high hours and cycles and also in need of a c check. But would really like to see a buyer who will put them back in the sky again.
