Cargo Flight Jump Seat

[fantaman]

Afternoon chaps and chapesses,

I'm after some info from some informed cargo people. Do any of the cargo airlines operating out of the UK allow people to fly on the jump seat on normal cargo trips?

I'm an air traffic controller and wanted to see what it was like from the other end. Self loading freight doesn't really interest me.

I'm not a journo looking for a scoop, not someone looking for or touting for business. Just interested and keen. Unfortunatley I don't have much to offer in return, maybe just an even better service if I ever get a chance to talk with you!

Does anyone have any contacts or tips on who is best to talk with?

Best Regards

[sud747]

One I know, that is Global Supply Systems ( GSS ), doesn't allow it.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

fantaman
same rules (should) apply for cargo, my airline has limited scope and would invlove the DFO applying to the CAA

[Bedlamair]

Problem is that Cargo aircraft don't carry cabin crew and don't have safety and escape equipment suitable for use by anyone who has not had crew training. Therefore, only those with a crew function (inc ground crew) and who have completed the same safety equipment training as the flight crew can fly on board.

[despegue]

Bedlamair,
Sorry but you are not correct.
In my airline we regulary take family-members or other people with us on the jumpseat in Cockpit or Cabin. (B737)
Only thing required before the flight is a boarding pass from ops. and once on the aircraft a brief about the emergency equipment. All perfectly legal and approved by our airlines CAA (JAA country in far Northern Europe).

[Bedlamair]

I will correct this to read for UK operators. Even though another operator from another jurisdiction does it, don't mean it's entirely strictly legal. To carry passengers (ie anyone without a "crew function") you need passenger seats. If you have passenger seats, you need cabin crew. That the UK interpret JAROps more strictly and literally than other jurisdictions surprises me not.

[EAM]

I think this is not correct, if you have less than 20 seats and most Cargo A/C dont have more , you dont need a cabin crew, all the emer proc. will be done by the cockpit crew. See DO 228, DHC-6 etc, no cabine crew.
Gemini accepts jumpseats, but I dont know if they fly to the UK, check their website http://www.gac-cargo.com/

[GlueBall]

fantaman: In the USA, FAA air traffic controllers could request FAR-121 airline cockpit jump seat rides in an official capacity as part of their training; you should talk to the CAA about that.

[ship's power]

Not sure GlueBall, but I think an ATC controller had told me that this program was squelched by 9/11

[Intruder]

If you can wade through and translate the various, apparently contradictory pieces of the latest FAA policy, let us know!
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e.../N8000_356.pdf

It still doesn't help the OP, since they specifically address US controllers...

[Lemper]

Ahemm! What is the status of an annimal care taker on a cargo flight carying horses and other kind of zoo/circus/ animals?

[Intruder]

Covered in the policy above.

[Sid Starz]

Although the DfT produced guidelines, I believe however that ultimately the airline concerned has the say on if they are going to allow fam flights etc.

Apparently there are cargo operators in europe who are already allowing family members on jumpseats (a Spanish one and a Danish one I believe) .. do correct me if I am wrong however.

I really hope that the current ridiculous system of apparently not allowing family members to travel, whilst allowing other unknown people on the jump seat, doesn't continue forever. Somehow I can't see things changing soon!

Even if the restriction on family members is not going to be changed, I really think the restriction on ID carrying, ticketed ATCO/ATSA fam trips should be lifted and if so it would be of huge benefit to all parties.

[Bedlamair]

The Grooms are professional aviation Grooms who have gone through the same SEP etc training as the Loadmasters and the Gnd Eng personnel who also fly from time to time. In the UK it is the CAA, not the company, who decide who may fly - and they say a definite "No" on an aircraft that is not certified to carry passengers, as opposed to supplementary and support crews. Their issue is not the known family member versus unknown stranger aspect (though all the Grooms etc have gone through the same CRO screening as aircrew do), it is the need to self evacuate using, sometimes, special equipment that the evacuee has not been trained to use.

The difference between states comes down to the JAR get out that the interpretation of any JAR rule is a matter for the individual state - it's not that the UK are the top dogs or best at anythiong, just that my experience is that the UK will always take the most limiting view of any rule.