Polar Air Cargo to get four 747-400F's!
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It will happen, Atlas has the resources. Polar on the other hand, if they were still running as the money losing carrier they were, prior to being acquired by Atlas Air Holdings, I would have some serious questions about their ability to be compliant.
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Originally Posted by Po Boy
It will happen, Atlas has the resources. Polar on the other hand, if they were still running as the money losing carrier they were, prior to being acquired by Atlas Air Holdings, I would have some serious questions about their ability to be compliant.
I imagine they will soon be profitable now that they have an agreement via the holding company (that 2nd holding company formed under AAWWH) to sell a large volume of their empty space Polar has on their flights to DHL. I bet the 49% sale helped stop the bleeding a bit also.
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So, any new -400's at Polar? Thought not.......... Looks like the hiring was for attrition, like others predicted here back in May.
To clean up some other matters, it appears Merc was correct in his observation that Polar did indeed want the rights to move with the certificate if sold, and they were denied by Holden. So it appears the Atlas MEC was correct in taking its stand against the Polar MEC demand that it be included in the premerger protocols.
From page 24 of the transcripts:
This is the third paragraph of conditions and restrictions by Mr. Katz, the Polar lawyer:
"We have a condition that gives a right to return to Polar pilots so that if they've lost a captain seat, for instance, they can return to that job within a specified period of time, ahead of somebody from the Atlas pilot group who isn't in that job. And we have a provision that we think is important but may never be used, and because the operating certificates have not been combined and may not be combined even if there's an operational merger, the company will have a theoretical ability to spin off the valuable scheduled routes and service of Polar and sell it to somebody, even after the merged list and merged contracts are done."
None of this wording was in the final findings, so there may have been trade-offs that we are unaware of given to Polar for not allowing this condition. As such, denial of this provision or any form of it, by the Atlas MEC was the right thing to do.
To clean up some other matters, it appears Merc was correct in his observation that Polar did indeed want the rights to move with the certificate if sold, and they were denied by Holden. So it appears the Atlas MEC was correct in taking its stand against the Polar MEC demand that it be included in the premerger protocols.
From page 24 of the transcripts:
This is the third paragraph of conditions and restrictions by Mr. Katz, the Polar lawyer:
"We have a condition that gives a right to return to Polar pilots so that if they've lost a captain seat, for instance, they can return to that job within a specified period of time, ahead of somebody from the Atlas pilot group who isn't in that job. And we have a provision that we think is important but may never be used, and because the operating certificates have not been combined and may not be combined even if there's an operational merger, the company will have a theoretical ability to spin off the valuable scheduled routes and service of Polar and sell it to somebody, even after the merged list and merged contracts are done."
None of this wording was in the final findings, so there may have been trade-offs that we are unaware of given to Polar for not allowing this condition. As such, denial of this provision or any form of it, by the Atlas MEC was the right thing to do.
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Denial by Atlas's MEC or not, it appears that today's tussle is over Polar's magic bullet - it's negotiated scope clause. What will become of the scope's job protecting intent? I doubt that it will simply be thrown out the window.
Polar does have a scope . . . Atlas labor does not.
Polar does have a scope . . . Atlas labor does not.
Last edited by L-38; 3rd Oct 2007 at 17:46.
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Dear layinlow,
Or should I say former FE Bill Th. of Polar Air Cargo. Yes you did get furlough, because of the economical decision to park the Classic. But then you resigned from Polar because of your employment with FedEx. More money and bankers hours, not bad congratulation, it is great to see someone being successful. But please stop bragging about receiving pay from AAWH for sitting at home when in reality you are not. Is it really that difficult for a former Polar guy to have more class than Bobb and Robin? I expected more from you. Your misrepresentation of facts is disgusting and does not befit a PhD, unless this is just another manifestation of your immodesty.
BTW the IOSA is on track and ahead of schedule. This should make you happy; knowing that your fellow Polar friends will have a secure and prosperous future as Atlas Crews flying to China, UAE, Japan, and Europe.
Other than that you don’t have a dog left in the fight. Move on and maybe give the truth a fair chance.
Or should I say former FE Bill Th. of Polar Air Cargo. Yes you did get furlough, because of the economical decision to park the Classic. But then you resigned from Polar because of your employment with FedEx. More money and bankers hours, not bad congratulation, it is great to see someone being successful. But please stop bragging about receiving pay from AAWH for sitting at home when in reality you are not. Is it really that difficult for a former Polar guy to have more class than Bobb and Robin? I expected more from you. Your misrepresentation of facts is disgusting and does not befit a PhD, unless this is just another manifestation of your immodesty.
BTW the IOSA is on track and ahead of schedule. This should make you happy; knowing that your fellow Polar friends will have a secure and prosperous future as Atlas Crews flying to China, UAE, Japan, and Europe.
Other than that you don’t have a dog left in the fight. Move on and maybe give the truth a fair chance.
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I would like to add my 1 cent opinion on the ongoing tri-feud between AAWWH, the Polar union, and the Atlas union concerning the “merger.”
Its obvious the Polaroids do not want to merge with the Atlas folks, primarily due to the scab issue caused by Atlas pilots crossing the “line” during Polar’s strike in 2005 and “Polar contract scope issues.”
What is not so obvious is why do the AAWWH/Atlas guys want to so desperately merge w/PACW and create a “crew-leasing” subsidiary under AAWWH?
Simply put, job security----Recent Japan-US bilateral route authority awards.
……24 Sep 07----Today it was announced that Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. (Polar) will expand operations in Japan following the conclusion of recent U.S.-Japan bilateral civil aviation negotiations.
In addition to an existing six weekly frequencies to Tokyo with related service to one destination beyond Japan, Polar has been granted another six frequencies to Japan, excluding Tokyo, with the right to fly to two foreign destinations beyond this new point. Including the new rights, Polar can now serve a combined total of 12 frequencies in Japan and 18 frequencies beyond. Polar will also have the latitude to choose the new destination in Japan, as well as the points outside of the country…..
This is why DHL has bought 49% of PACW, guaranteed 40% capacity of all Polar flights for 20 years, and wants the other 51% ownership if/when the US-EU “open skies” negotiations (currently in progress) allow for 100% foreign ownership of “US cargo” airlines.
Polar is poised for growth via DHL wanting to expand its international express operations from Asia to US in 2008. But how does Polar grow? Either separately as a stand alone company controlled by DHL or in partnership (DHL/AAWWH) as a subsidiary of AAWWH who wants to use Atlas Air as an ACMI carrier for PACW.
Atlas Air, as an ACMI carrier, lives and dies by the contract. Currently DOD is or will be in the decline airlift mode. Emirates, Atlas’s largest customer, is buying its own freighters and dropping -200 service to numerous destinations. Unless Atlas can generate more contracts with other carriers, it is likely it will be in the retrenching/downsizing mode. Remember also L-38’s post, Atlas Air can’t fly Polar routes in Japan. It can only do so if there is “one crew force flying under both certificates.” Hence, the extreme desire upon the part of AAWWH and Atlas Air folks to consumate a merger with Polar ASAP and create a “crew leasing subsidiary.”
The wild card----Harbert Management Inc/partners now own about 55% of AAWWH. The banks, who got 100% ownership of AAWWH upon emergence from bankruptcy are in the process of selling off their entire inheritance (in lieu of debt). Harbert is a private equity firm that “slices, dices, and restructures” mismanaged, poorly run, undervalued companies. It has already demonstrated their intent. Buy AAWWH (an undervalued asset), cut a deal with DHL (49% PACW) to the legal limit “currently” allowed by US law, install DHL mgt at Polar (CEO, CFO), and wait for further developments (??100% foreign ownership law change??).
If Polar is spun off by Harbert to DHL, Polar fleet and crew size can only grow----at the detriment to Atlas Air, their ACMI business, and their crews.
So it’s a race of time-----US law change on 100% foreign-ownership before/after possible merger of the two pilot unions and creation of a “crew-leasing” company at AAWWH that will service both PACW business and Atlas Air business.
When the pie is cut by Harbert, the Polaroids want it all, the Atlas guys want a slice.
IMHO
Its obvious the Polaroids do not want to merge with the Atlas folks, primarily due to the scab issue caused by Atlas pilots crossing the “line” during Polar’s strike in 2005 and “Polar contract scope issues.”
What is not so obvious is why do the AAWWH/Atlas guys want to so desperately merge w/PACW and create a “crew-leasing” subsidiary under AAWWH?
Simply put, job security----Recent Japan-US bilateral route authority awards.
……24 Sep 07----Today it was announced that Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. (Polar) will expand operations in Japan following the conclusion of recent U.S.-Japan bilateral civil aviation negotiations.
In addition to an existing six weekly frequencies to Tokyo with related service to one destination beyond Japan, Polar has been granted another six frequencies to Japan, excluding Tokyo, with the right to fly to two foreign destinations beyond this new point. Including the new rights, Polar can now serve a combined total of 12 frequencies in Japan and 18 frequencies beyond. Polar will also have the latitude to choose the new destination in Japan, as well as the points outside of the country…..
This is why DHL has bought 49% of PACW, guaranteed 40% capacity of all Polar flights for 20 years, and wants the other 51% ownership if/when the US-EU “open skies” negotiations (currently in progress) allow for 100% foreign ownership of “US cargo” airlines.
Polar is poised for growth via DHL wanting to expand its international express operations from Asia to US in 2008. But how does Polar grow? Either separately as a stand alone company controlled by DHL or in partnership (DHL/AAWWH) as a subsidiary of AAWWH who wants to use Atlas Air as an ACMI carrier for PACW.
Atlas Air, as an ACMI carrier, lives and dies by the contract. Currently DOD is or will be in the decline airlift mode. Emirates, Atlas’s largest customer, is buying its own freighters and dropping -200 service to numerous destinations. Unless Atlas can generate more contracts with other carriers, it is likely it will be in the retrenching/downsizing mode. Remember also L-38’s post, Atlas Air can’t fly Polar routes in Japan. It can only do so if there is “one crew force flying under both certificates.” Hence, the extreme desire upon the part of AAWWH and Atlas Air folks to consumate a merger with Polar ASAP and create a “crew leasing subsidiary.”
The wild card----Harbert Management Inc/partners now own about 55% of AAWWH. The banks, who got 100% ownership of AAWWH upon emergence from bankruptcy are in the process of selling off their entire inheritance (in lieu of debt). Harbert is a private equity firm that “slices, dices, and restructures” mismanaged, poorly run, undervalued companies. It has already demonstrated their intent. Buy AAWWH (an undervalued asset), cut a deal with DHL (49% PACW) to the legal limit “currently” allowed by US law, install DHL mgt at Polar (CEO, CFO), and wait for further developments (??100% foreign ownership law change??).
If Polar is spun off by Harbert to DHL, Polar fleet and crew size can only grow----at the detriment to Atlas Air, their ACMI business, and their crews.
So it’s a race of time-----US law change on 100% foreign-ownership before/after possible merger of the two pilot unions and creation of a “crew-leasing” company at AAWWH that will service both PACW business and Atlas Air business.
When the pie is cut by Harbert, the Polaroids want it all, the Atlas guys want a slice.
IMHO
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Originally Posted by JohnGalt
Its obvious the Polaroids do not want to merge with the Atlas folks, primarily due to the scab issue caused by Atlas pilots crossing the “line” during Polar’s strike in 2005 and “Polar contract scope issues.”
It appears you have been listening to your Polar MEC's story again. Why not, we shouldn't let facts get in the way of truth. So when Bobb Henderson tucks you into bed tonight telling you about the big bad Atlas crewmembers and how they are the root to all of your evils -- don't let the facts LOCATED HERE 2/3 way down confuse you. It's much easier listening to a good story from a person who has a lot of self interest of his own survival than the truth.
Everyone has their opinion and you stated plenty of it. You pretty much covered it with your thought stated towards the end:
Originally Posted by JohnGalt
the Polaroids want it all
This has been pretty much the truth since day one of Polar's purchase by Atlas. I can't say much more.
