Polar Air Cargo to get four 747-400F's!
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One of our bottom seniority FO's has been called back. What that means is that either Polar is getting more aircraft or the other FO's saw the writing on the wall and passed on returning.
Me, too old for anything and wouldn't give up this job and the subsequent pay cut, so I am just going to keep drawing the do nothing pay and resign only when I have no other choice.
Just a side note, in this and previous threads I keep hearing about the changes that are coming (ie plan b), as of yet none have happened, none. So don't believe anything until is actually happens.
Me, too old for anything and wouldn't give up this job and the subsequent pay cut, so I am just going to keep drawing the do nothing pay and resign only when I have no other choice.
Just a side note, in this and previous threads I keep hearing about the changes that are coming (ie plan b), as of yet none have happened, none. So don't believe anything until is actually happens.
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Originally Posted by layinlow
Just a side note, in this and previous threads I keep hearing about the changes that are coming (ie plan b), as of yet none have happened, none. So don't believe anything until is actually happens.
Looking at the up coming Atlas/Polar fleet schedules of who is doing what and reviewing the past arbitration awards, the proverbial plan "B" may come soon. Recall or Resigning may not be the first thing offered to you in this new light. Time will tell. Usually making fools of us all.
I would hedge your bets and keep the resumes floating around. Like most of us that have been in this industry for any length of time.
So to get back on topic, I don't see guys getting recalled for expansion at Polar. More than likely, attrition of existing guys is the more likely culprit in your example.
mercpc9
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No need for me to hedge my bets merc. I am well ensconce in my present position making more than I ever did flying around the world bleary eyed. No more flying for me. Just cool beers by the lake at the end of the day. No Cato to put up with, and working with class management is my ticket now. In the meantime I just take what is given to me. Hey its free money, right?
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Well Dr T, seems like a PO FE just got his 30 day notice of furlough. Maybe plan B has started? Anybody else in the know?
Last edited by Heilhaavir; 1st Jun 2007 at 19:15. Reason: punctuation
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I have to recant a little on one of my first posts on this thread. The actual grievance was filed back in 2005, not recently as I said earlier. It has only been recently requested by the Polar MEC for expedited arbitration. My bad. The rest holds true and I expect things to happen sometime this month. I'm sorry the Polar MEC rejected the recent proposal to allow Polar crews to migrate over to Atlas until the the merger was done. It seems this has come full circle. Sucks how history repeats itself. Now to the other carrier.
Most of my life I have spent a lot money on women and drink. The rest I just wasted. 
Originally Posted by mercpc9
I think Whale Rider is talking about the recent grievance filed by the Polar MEC Chairman Bobb Henderson making another attempt to get A/C and crews back via the grievance process. I can't remember which of the previous grievance arbitrations (Holden or Harris) that involved attempting similar that didn't get the A/C back but got the crews back pay until they are furloughed properly. The latter happening when the alliance flying stops and Polar gets an Atlas -200 to furlough off the remaining unnecessary Polar crews collecting checks while sitting at home. This is coming soon and is probably what prompted this new grievance to get what he didn't get in the other arbitration award.
Originally Posted by nitro rig driver
I see your eye has gotten better then-hope the wallet does soon as well
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PT
I didn't receive a notice so there is comment from me on it. I do know that Henderson et al has something up the sleeve though. Atlas is still playing the old game and it going back to the arbitrator. As for me, hey, I make more than I ever did at Polar, work less, and get a good night's sleep regularly. Why on God's green earth would I want to go back to that mess? Great job, great pay, good hours, and no Agnini, no Cato and no Atlas. Can't beat it.
I didn't receive a notice so there is comment from me on it. I do know that Henderson et al has something up the sleeve though. Atlas is still playing the old game and it going back to the arbitrator. As for me, hey, I make more than I ever did at Polar, work less, and get a good night's sleep regularly. Why on God's green earth would I want to go back to that mess? Great job, great pay, good hours, and no Agnini, no Cato and no Atlas. Can't beat it.
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It appears that my earlier supposition was correct on the subject of this thread. It takes awhile, but Bobb H. confirms a number of other things such as the arbitration previously discussed, where the aircraft/routes came from originally (which even the company management admits to them coming from Atlas originally) and the announced Polar furloughs. Wish that it didn't cost @170 Atlas crewmembers jobs and those now at Polar that were hired to fill them when they were taken from Atlas crew members during our negotiations, then subsequently returned to Atlas.
In streaming MP3 or here via their phone VARS 1-800-253-5671.
In streaming MP3 or here via their phone VARS 1-800-253-5671.
Last edited by mercpc9; 6th Jun 2007 at 20:55.
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I wouldn't get the thong in a bunch. Just let the arbitrator make the decision. What is, is. the union and the company can posture all they want, but it comes down to Beckman's decision. So just sit back, take a deep breath, and wait. What I think, or what you think there merc9 makes no difference, just Mr. Becknan's, but given Cato''s track record..........
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The notices are out, but not to me. Hearings today with the arbitrator to determine if Atlas broke the agreement from last falls decision. Given Atlas's track record on this................
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there is a lot more to it than that P.B. The 4 who took the RLOA were told one thing when we accepted the RLOA, what happened was another. It is all in the language. Nothing else to be said until the ruling on this problem.
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Originally Posted by layinlow
The notices are out, but not to me. Hearings today with the arbitrator to determine if Atlas broke the agreement from last falls decision. Given Atlas's track record on this................
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Can't tell you that just yet. The hearing was just heard. It is now nothing more than a passing interest to me and a possiblity of getting into Atlas's pockets a little deeper. Besides, Atlas now has to go through an IOSA audit they have a whole lot more problems that this little tiff; and believe me, the effort we are putting out to comply is amazing. And we have a real organization. Outfits like Atlas had better look out IOSA is coming to your neighborhood and the cost of not complying is just to great.
Finally, Merc, check out the last Polar VARS.
Finally, Merc, check out the last Polar VARS.
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Originally Posted by layinlow
Finally, Merc, check out the last Polar VARS.
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I beg to differ with you PoBoy. It is obvious that you do not know anything about IOSA. If you want to brush up, Google IOSA and download the ISM. In it you will see the requirements of 8 sections that Atlas must pass in order to get onto the registry; Organization, Flight, Dispatch, Cargo, Security, Maintenance, Ground Handling, and Cabin. In there are checklists called ISARP (IOSA Safety and Recommended Practices) and with that are Guidance Materials that must be complied with. Who AAWH owns has nothing to do with it.
Now here is the scenario. On the date of the audit 5 or 6 auditors are going to show up at Atlas and conduct a 5 day audit. That will include a flight and a training event. Depending on how bad Atlas is (and believe me everyone gets hit) Atlas may get a temporary reprieve and have 12 months into which fix the findings. But the the findings must be fixed prior to the 12 months and be inspected again so the effective time limit is really 10 months. Being at Purchase a for quite a bit and flying the line, I can tell you they are woefully short on passing any IOSA audit. By the way, only a Managing Director or above can answer the ISARP. No underlings except to provide the written and electronic materials.
Now, here is the kicker. If you care to read through the entire ISARP, and think about it, it is going to cost a pot full of cash and major reorganization to even get close to satifying the ISARP. You cannot even begin to appreciate the complexity of IOSA. We have over 5000 pilots and a training center so large we have our own electric substation on property. All of our sims are level C or above, mostly above. We have a simulator engineering department second to none and an entire floor of engineers that tweek the programs and write software for the sims. Since I have been here, we have never, ever had a sim go down for maintenance that did not have an engineer there within 5 minutes. We have never ever had a training event cancelled either. That is our standard. Hell, the managing director of sim engineering gets upset if he finds a trash can full! And I'm talking about on one small section of one ISARP. Try looking at all the sections. And we are still in major work getting to the IOSA standard. Section after section, there is a major work in progress going on here and I am am the thick of it so I know what is what with IOSA.
Atlas is going to have a major undertaking and expense on their part. They could pass and IOSA audit but whether they have to ability or desire, not to mention the tons of money required, to do so remains to be seen.
So before you make off the wall comments, better check the facts.
Now here is the scenario. On the date of the audit 5 or 6 auditors are going to show up at Atlas and conduct a 5 day audit. That will include a flight and a training event. Depending on how bad Atlas is (and believe me everyone gets hit) Atlas may get a temporary reprieve and have 12 months into which fix the findings. But the the findings must be fixed prior to the 12 months and be inspected again so the effective time limit is really 10 months. Being at Purchase a for quite a bit and flying the line, I can tell you they are woefully short on passing any IOSA audit. By the way, only a Managing Director or above can answer the ISARP. No underlings except to provide the written and electronic materials.
Now, here is the kicker. If you care to read through the entire ISARP, and think about it, it is going to cost a pot full of cash and major reorganization to even get close to satifying the ISARP. You cannot even begin to appreciate the complexity of IOSA. We have over 5000 pilots and a training center so large we have our own electric substation on property. All of our sims are level C or above, mostly above. We have a simulator engineering department second to none and an entire floor of engineers that tweek the programs and write software for the sims. Since I have been here, we have never, ever had a sim go down for maintenance that did not have an engineer there within 5 minutes. We have never ever had a training event cancelled either. That is our standard. Hell, the managing director of sim engineering gets upset if he finds a trash can full! And I'm talking about on one small section of one ISARP. Try looking at all the sections. And we are still in major work getting to the IOSA standard. Section after section, there is a major work in progress going on here and I am am the thick of it so I know what is what with IOSA.
Atlas is going to have a major undertaking and expense on their part. They could pass and IOSA audit but whether they have to ability or desire, not to mention the tons of money required, to do so remains to be seen.
So before you make off the wall comments, better check the facts.
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I am well aware of that lowrider. What I am trying to say is that if Atlas wants to be on the IOSA registry. When they get the final report and what it will take and the cost, sticker shock will set in.
. Not only that but the ISARP is very clear on compliance and the rules of the game are much different than the operation Atlas runs and will require infrastructure changes. Will Atlas have the desire to do it. Entire new departments have to be created, hiring increased in support, many manuals required to the revised and many more written. Electronic infrastructures created, on and on. If UPS and FEDX spent a much time as they have on this will Atlas. And FEDX and UPS are one hell of a lot more organized than the AAWH outfit.
IOSA isn't regulatory. But is you want to fly into Chile after Jan. you better be on the registry. Also China, Dubai, the UAE, and many other countrires are heading that way.
I really suggest you look at the ISARP and see what is entailed and then take a good look at your operation.
. Not only that but the ISARP is very clear on compliance and the rules of the game are much different than the operation Atlas runs and will require infrastructure changes. Will Atlas have the desire to do it. Entire new departments have to be created, hiring increased in support, many manuals required to the revised and many more written. Electronic infrastructures created, on and on. If UPS and FEDX spent a much time as they have on this will Atlas. And FEDX and UPS are one hell of a lot more organized than the AAWH outfit.
IOSA isn't regulatory. But is you want to fly into Chile after Jan. you better be on the registry. Also China, Dubai, the UAE, and many other countrires are heading that way.
I really suggest you look at the ISARP and see what is entailed and then take a good look at your operation.