Double crewing question

[ccryan]

Hello all,
I am wondering what your local airlines are doing for staffing on double crews... 2 capt & 2 f/o, 1 capt & 3 f/o or a combination with a 'cruise pilot' position? I am trying to get an idea of 'industry' standards on an international level. You can post here or get back to me at [email protected]
Thanks in advance.
C.

[Intruder]

1 Capt + 3 FOs

or

1 Capt + 2 FOs + 2 FEs

[ccryan]

re: double crewing

Are you a US carrier or overseas carrier? Thanks.

[airbus2boeing]

Our company's(overseas based) definition of double crew----2 CAs+2 FOs

[flyguykorea]

Here it's also 2CAP + 2F/O

[742]

This is messy.

Are you talking about pay/union issues? Or basic training/qualification issues?

[Bedlamair]

Never 2 Captains!!

We fly many augmented crew but never 2 Captains anywhere (unless one is flying as an FO due to crewing problems). ! Capt and up to 3 FO's (as long as there is always an FO who is fully ATPL licenced on the Flight Deck).

[CR2]

Double crew for us (CLX) 2 Capts, 2 F/Os.

[747dieseldude]

2 x CA
2 x FO
2 x FE

[ccryan]

re: double crewing...

Thanks for your replies...for "742" I am talking about how each carrier actually staffs it's double crew flights. We staff our Augments as 1 capt & 2 f/o's and are facing 1 capt & 3 f/o's on the Double Crew legs. Obviously this has an impact on staffing for the left seat, but we are also facing pressure to run the double crews on multiple legs. This I fear, may be a negative from a safety standpoint with only one captain on board, he/she is responsible for a lot with multiple legs...thoughts?

[Heilhaavir]

Originally Posted by Intruder

1 Capt + 3 FOs
or
1 Capt + 2 FOs + 2 FEs

1CA/2FOs/2FEs would be heavy (or augmented) crew, not double crew

[ccryan]

Intruder is probably at a company with something like -200's and -400's where the -400's only fly the double crews and the -200's fly augmented, remember the basic crew compliment on the -200 can go to 12 hours. He indicated 1 + 3 for the double crew....

[Heilhaavir]

Originally Posted by ccryan

Intruder is probably at a company with something like -200's and -400's where the -400's only fly the double crews and the -200's fly augmented, remember the basic crew compliment on the -200 can go to 12 hours. He indicated 1 + 3 for the double crew....

I understand, I worked in a company like that too. On the 400 it was 1 + 3 for "double crew" and 1 + 2 for "augmented" (We didn't always fly double crew on the 400). On the Classic it was 2/2/2 for "double" and 2/1/2 for "augmented".

Was just pointing it out since the original question was "double crew"

[ccryan]

Thanks Heilhaavir, check your pm's.

[captjns]

We used to "heavy crew" our aircraft. two captains, 1 F/O and 2 F/Es. There would be two extra flight attendants in the back too. There had to be a designated rest area in the back of the jet to satisfy the rest requirements when not actively working.

[Intruder]

We rarely use double crews on our Classics. The only exceptions would be a planned VERY long trip with 1 stop, or a long trip with 2 stops; even these are not always double-crewed. There is no allowance for a longer duty day for a double crew than there is for an augmented crew.

Note that 1 CA + 3 FOs is not a "double" crew either...

[ccryan]

Intruder, between you, me and the fence post I agree with you 100% that 1+3 is not a double crew, nor was it the intent of the FAA FAR's, but you know the power of lobbying and $$; it has unfortunately become industry standard in the USA. Delta is thus far the only hold out...we are facing it too, in the contract that we are voting on. As for the duty day issue, for us it is a contractual one that would allow a double crew to run longer than a augmented or as some call it a heavy crew. That is a different can of worms!