Just out of interest.....
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Just out of interest.....
Evening all. Hope you don't mind my visiting from the Cabin Crew forum - I just have a quick question that I thought you chaps would probably be best suited to answer.
In movies based around cargo aircraft (Cast Away being one of them), there usually appears to be a Flight Attendantesque person onboard the flight to look after the flight crew. I've also seen FedEx and UPS guys arrive at hotels downroute before with an FA in tow.
Can anyone tell me whether having these FAs is fairly commonplace among cargo operators, and if so, where one might get information about jobs??
Best wishes,
In movies based around cargo aircraft (Cast Away being one of them), there usually appears to be a Flight Attendantesque person onboard the flight to look after the flight crew. I've also seen FedEx and UPS guys arrive at hotels downroute before with an FA in tow.
Can anyone tell me whether having these FAs is fairly commonplace among cargo operators, and if so, where one might get information about jobs??
Best wishes,
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Yes, it is pretty rare I have never had one on my aircraft although loadmasters seem to do a pretty good job except not all laodmasters look and care for us the same way as a Virgin hostie.
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I wish.
Having a FA in tow doesn't necessarily make said FA part of the crew. There are no FAs on any US freighter aircraft and I seriously doubt if any have been employed worldwide in cargo operations since the Atlantic Baron days of BA B707 pond crossings - say 25 years' ago. In my corner of the world we are presently fighting over retaining the catering option for self-serve food on our cargo aircraft, perhaps asking for a FA and then dropping the sights is an approach we should try.
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Does a "loadmaster" tend to accompany each major cargo flight, and is he/she part of the operating flight crew (i.e. is he/she trained to fly the aircraft)???
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Eddy,
The loadmaster is primarily there to plan and supervise the loading, put his back sometimes into shifting heavy pallets, getting big pieces through little openings in the side of aircraft and then during flight act as in flight chef or 'heater upper'.
Loadmasters are rarely, if ever, governed by flight & duty time regulations and I have known loadmasters to live on aircraft, back to back flying, for days on end!
The loadmaster is primarily there to plan and supervise the loading, put his back sometimes into shifting heavy pallets, getting big pieces through little openings in the side of aircraft and then during flight act as in flight chef or 'heater upper'.
Loadmasters are rarely, if ever, governed by flight & duty time regulations and I have known loadmasters to live on aircraft, back to back flying, for days on end!
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Originally Posted by Phileas Fogg
Eddy,
The loadmaster is primarily there to plan and supervise the loading, put his back sometimes into shifting heavy pallets, getting big pieces through little openings in the side of aircraft and then during flight act as in flight chef or 'heater upper'.
Loadmasters are rarely, if ever, governed by flight & duty time regulations and I have known loadmasters to live on aircraft, back to back flying, for days on end!
The loadmaster is primarily there to plan and supervise the loading, put his back sometimes into shifting heavy pallets, getting big pieces through little openings in the side of aircraft and then during flight act as in flight chef or 'heater upper'.
Loadmasters are rarely, if ever, governed by flight & duty time regulations and I have known loadmasters to live on aircraft, back to back flying, for days on end!
P.S. What's the best route in to this kind of 'career'?!
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SAA Cargo used to roster a FA with a freighter crew on the old A300s and load them up with First Class catering. It was a much sought after thing as she didn't work too hard, the crews enjoyed being spoilt and the destinations were pretty interesting.
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Top Loadie
CV used to carry pax ( staff on vacation or on business ) on the -200s : after the FAs were discontinued ( and -400s introduced ) staff members that had been through the " Safety Officer " training could be used, if on the flt. What the situation would be if no trained person available i have no idea. Perhaps CR2 could explain ?
CV used to carry pax ( staff on vacation or on business ) on the -200s : after the FAs were discontinued ( and -400s introduced ) staff members that had been through the " Safety Officer " training could be used, if on the flt. What the situation would be if no trained person available i have no idea. Perhaps CR2 could explain ?
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Í've flown with a few female loadmasters; couple of them were quite comely, actually. They both started in the military.
That said it is a hard hard way to live. 48 hours with the plane at times. You may cycle through 5 or 6 crews in that time, but the loady hangs on, getting stinkier and stinkier.... Awful things happen to your body after that much time airborne....
To me the best FA jobs out there are in the larger corporate jets. Met a girl in the James Joyce in Paris last month, flew on Gulfstreams for the company that owns Victoria's Secret. (Yes, her secret was safe with me....) She was touring Europe out of her home base in Ohio.
That said it is a hard hard way to live. 48 hours with the plane at times. You may cycle through 5 or 6 crews in that time, but the loady hangs on, getting stinkier and stinkier.... Awful things happen to your body after that much time airborne....
To me the best FA jobs out there are in the larger corporate jets. Met a girl in the James Joyce in Paris last month, flew on Gulfstreams for the company that owns Victoria's Secret. (Yes, her secret was safe with me....) She was touring Europe out of her home base in Ohio.
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P.S. What's the best route in to this kind of 'career'?! Asks Eddy. Now I see why you started the thread.
Military transports have loadmasters as flight crew, in the civilian world the express fright shippers do not and the long haul types increasingly rely on outsourced help - there will be a loadmaster supplied by the handling agent(s) at departure/arrival but not traveling with the aircraft. I would expect any flight crew loadmaster opportunities to be filled by those already employed by the airline who handle the cargo on the ground - paying their dues as it were to a flight crew position. A loadmaster will receive absolutely no training whatsoever in flying the aircraft and at times, as others have stated, basically has to live onboard the aircraft for numerous trips getting food and sleep between loadings. If interested in the job you're going to have to make inquires with various freight airlines to ask them about it.
Military transports have loadmasters as flight crew, in the civilian world the express fright shippers do not and the long haul types increasingly rely on outsourced help - there will be a loadmaster supplied by the handling agent(s) at departure/arrival but not traveling with the aircraft. I would expect any flight crew loadmaster opportunities to be filled by those already employed by the airline who handle the cargo on the ground - paying their dues as it were to a flight crew position. A loadmaster will receive absolutely no training whatsoever in flying the aircraft and at times, as others have stated, basically has to live onboard the aircraft for numerous trips getting food and sleep between loadings. If interested in the job you're going to have to make inquires with various freight airlines to ask them about it.
Last edited by cvg2iln; 6th Mar 2006 at 21:04.
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Many airlines do not employ staff to handle cargo on the ground, that is why handling agents remain in business?
For every, perhaps, 4 flight crew jobs there will be 1 loadmaster job and every handling agent loader on the planet, it seems, dreams to be aircrew thus airlines get swamped with applications from wannabee loadmasters!
There has to be an easier way to earn a living than flying thru darkest Africa in the dead of night trying to prevent ground staff from nicking the skydrol or indeed the wheels!
For every, perhaps, 4 flight crew jobs there will be 1 loadmaster job and every handling agent loader on the planet, it seems, dreams to be aircrew thus airlines get swamped with applications from wannabee loadmasters!
There has to be an easier way to earn a living than flying thru darkest Africa in the dead of night trying to prevent ground staff from nicking the skydrol or indeed the wheels!
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Originally Posted by cvg2iln
P.S. What's the best route in to this kind of 'career'?! Asks Eddy. Now I see why you started the thread.
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Eddy,
To be a loadmaster you need to be able to load plan based on aircraft structurals & dimensions and be able to compile a loadsheet.
Unlike a pilot or a flight engineer there are no similar training or qualifications required to be a loadmaster and this leaves the door open to hundreds of applications for a single job.
I wouldn't tell your friend to enter a military career in the belief that he will be able to resume that career in civvie street upon leaving the military, civilian aviation is a big tough world, just ask all the young & licenced pilots in the wannabees forum, and to get a flying job, particularly a less qualified one, well he's. literally, going to have to be one in a million.
To be a loadmaster you need to be able to load plan based on aircraft structurals & dimensions and be able to compile a loadsheet.
Unlike a pilot or a flight engineer there are no similar training or qualifications required to be a loadmaster and this leaves the door open to hundreds of applications for a single job.
I wouldn't tell your friend to enter a military career in the belief that he will be able to resume that career in civvie street upon leaving the military, civilian aviation is a big tough world, just ask all the young & licenced pilots in the wannabees forum, and to get a flying job, particularly a less qualified one, well he's. literally, going to have to be one in a million.
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Hi Eddy, I was in this situation a few years back. I had just started in Flt Ops with a company which had Loadmasters on it's aircraft and I decided that was the job for me.
I looked into joining the RAF as Airman/Aircrew (now Crewman) and specialising as an Air Loadmaster which required signing up for 12 years service. I had 2 interviews in London and 1 at Cranwell with some aptitude tests and was offered a place. My company then offered to train me as a Loadmaster so I took the civilian option as I guessed I'd end up in the same position, looking for a civilian job, in 12 years after the RAF.
I went Flt Ops - Loadplanning - Air Loadmaster in about 2 years, by being persistant and putting in lots of time and effort. Obviously I was in an ideal place, a company with Loadmasters, but the flying jobs I had after that were down to "right place, right time" and a lot of putting myself out there and getting to know people.
Most Loadmasters come from either a ramp background or dispatch background. This is because as a Loadmaster on a turnaround you need to know the jobs of 5 or 6 people on the ground such as load planning, weight and balance, loading, DGR, radioactives, fuelling etc. And when it all goes to rat sh1t, and the handling agent gives up, you are the on they look to to get it sorted.
Yes, I've been on the aircraft for days on end and not seen a hotel, have slept on a jumpseat as deadhead crew have nicked the bunks, flown on the jumpseat for 12 hours, loaded infinate amounts of stinking fish and spent 9 hours standing in Rhino cr@p, but I've still love it.
I looked into joining the RAF as Airman/Aircrew (now Crewman) and specialising as an Air Loadmaster which required signing up for 12 years service. I had 2 interviews in London and 1 at Cranwell with some aptitude tests and was offered a place. My company then offered to train me as a Loadmaster so I took the civilian option as I guessed I'd end up in the same position, looking for a civilian job, in 12 years after the RAF.
I went Flt Ops - Loadplanning - Air Loadmaster in about 2 years, by being persistant and putting in lots of time and effort. Obviously I was in an ideal place, a company with Loadmasters, but the flying jobs I had after that were down to "right place, right time" and a lot of putting myself out there and getting to know people.
Most Loadmasters come from either a ramp background or dispatch background. This is because as a Loadmaster on a turnaround you need to know the jobs of 5 or 6 people on the ground such as load planning, weight and balance, loading, DGR, radioactives, fuelling etc. And when it all goes to rat sh1t, and the handling agent gives up, you are the on they look to to get it sorted.
Yes, I've been on the aircraft for days on end and not seen a hotel, have slept on a jumpseat as deadhead crew have nicked the bunks, flown on the jumpseat for 12 hours, loaded infinate amounts of stinking fish and spent 9 hours standing in Rhino cr@p, but I've still love it.
