So what's up at Polar? (Merged again & again)
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No one has touched this tread for 2 months, but there's still life in it.
Just read a letter today from the VP Ops at Atlas World Wide Holdings, (parent company of Atlas and Polar). In that letter, he says that in his opinnion, and the opinion of the Company in general, the Polar MEC has violated their back to work agreement.
Specifically, the Polar Pilot Group has instituted retribution against the Atlas pilots, with the full knowledge and more than overt support of the Polar MEC.
It certainly looks like bad times are coming for the Polar MEC, not only from AAWW management, but from ALPA National.
Just read a letter today from the VP Ops at Atlas World Wide Holdings, (parent company of Atlas and Polar). In that letter, he says that in his opinnion, and the opinion of the Company in general, the Polar MEC has violated their back to work agreement.
Specifically, the Polar Pilot Group has instituted retribution against the Atlas pilots, with the full knowledge and more than overt support of the Polar MEC.
It certainly looks like bad times are coming for the Polar MEC, not only from AAWW management, but from ALPA National.
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Tiger Guy
In a previous life it has been my "luck" to have had the experience to come in contact with the individual who calls himself V.P. Flt. Ops of Atlas/Polar and just about everything else.
He has done a very good job of keeping up disharmony between the two pilot groups by playing one against the other.this only to satisfy his own end and gain. Unfortuately for both groups some of you are falling for his B.S. One thing to remember is that--
"If his lips are moving he is lying". I have not nor probably will not read this mentioned document. But if it came from this individual I can guarentee most of it is pure fabrication.
Good luck with your merger.
He has done a very good job of keeping up disharmony between the two pilot groups by playing one against the other.this only to satisfy his own end and gain. Unfortuately for both groups some of you are falling for his B.S. One thing to remember is that--
"If his lips are moving he is lying". I have not nor probably will not read this mentioned document. But if it came from this individual I can guarentee most of it is pure fabrication.
Good luck with your merger.
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Is this a good thing?
Someone at Atlas gave me this:======================================================
Good evening crewmembers, this is MEC Vice Chairman John Caputo with a VARS update for Friday evening, January 13, 2006.
This week, the MEC and members of the Negotiating Committee met in Washington with ALPA staff and Polar representatives to pre brief for the planned meeting next week with the company over the company’s proposed merger protocols.
While it appears some protocols are possible, more discussion remains on some key areas of concern. Since the company still has yet to provide all the required data, we still have questions about how they are proceeding with the merger.
After the meeting, the Polar MEC advised us that they intended to file Article 8 charges against approximately 160 Atlas crewmembers. To call this disgusting is a gross understatement, especially in light of the fact that the Polar Strike Chairman himself advised the ALPA Executive Council that NO Atlas pilot was a scab.
The inescapable fact remains that the Polar crewmembers were set up for a strike by an MEC Chairman who caved into management 36 hours into a 30 day cooling off and set his own pilots up for failure…and when he screwed that up, he tried to force us into violating our CBA…
When a Federal Judge issued a TRO against us…he went out and lied about it not only to his own crews…but to other ALPA carriers…because what he wanted, in his own words, was for this MEC and ALPA National to order YOU to violate the Federal judges order…disgusting.
After being proven wrong time and again in his interpretations and protestations, he then began a cheap, gutless assault on the staff and employees of ALPA National and to this day continues to encourage the spreading of lies about Atlas pilots worldwide…
Folks, there are not words yet written to describe this lack of morals.
He stood on a soapbox time and time again over the past two years, wailing that we really have one common enemy…well…WE Atlas pilots do. The same people who openly volunteered to scab us at the end of our cooling off…who screwed up the Alliance Agreement arbitration which affected us as well. The same people who have lied to us, ALPA National and every other airline…they’ve broken promises and abused people wherever they go.
These are the people we are supposed to merge with? First they cry, and then they lie…a pattern they have exhibited since “they” bought “us.”
How pathetic.
But, they wanted a fight…they’ve got one. Every step of the way. We will fight the Article 8 charges and we will assist each crewmember wrongly accused who seeks redress in the civil courts as well. A team of crewmembers is working right now with lawyers on a separate civil suit against each and every Polar crewmember involved…and the damages sought should well be in the millions of dollars…against those people.
As always…Polar knows better…ALPA National has made it clear time and again to Polar that they were on thin ice and should not be stupid and attack you…and has advised them again that they will get NO support from ALPA National on the lawsuit. In other words…they’re on their own.
Yesterday, an unsigned letter from an unnamed, so called “Strike Breakers Committee” sent Dave Bourne a certified letter, demanding he provide addresses for crewmembers they did not have. Or that he order ALPA to provide them…DEMANDED???
After they used every lie possible to try and trick ALPA staff into violating ALPA policy to provide the addresses. And then went to other cargo airlines, hoping to get the information. Again, pretty pathetic. But, as we said…they started this fight.
We’ll finish it.
Stay tuned for updates. And despite these individuals, stay professional…like you always have. And fly safe.
Re; John Caputo Atlas MEC Vice-Chairman
Caputo is ex. Eastern Airlines. To the best of my knowledge he does not have a valid medical. Due to being grossly overweight don't know about being sent back from Anchorage but he was not allowed into the Polar Strike Center in Herndon. Due to his antics verbally attacking personnel in the Center and also as a suspected conduit to Cato.
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Three things to note on the above post. One, the statement was made in the public with no fear of retribution by those he talks about. Why, because it's the truth, or close enough to not fear legal action.
Two, Polars MEC response, none, nil, nadda. A VARS response tonite that has a bunch of fluffy words about not talking to another pilot like this, or being unprofressional, but in the end, no response. Trust me, there will be responses at breakfast tables and bars, where no one will question them, or challenge them, but not in the public where it has to face the lite of truth.
And number three. No response in the above post, just comments about the person making the statement for the Atlas MEC.
You Judge?
Two, Polars MEC response, none, nil, nadda. A VARS response tonite that has a bunch of fluffy words about not talking to another pilot like this, or being unprofressional, but in the end, no response. Trust me, there will be responses at breakfast tables and bars, where no one will question them, or challenge them, but not in the public where it has to face the lite of truth.
And number three. No response in the above post, just comments about the person making the statement for the Atlas MEC.
You Judge?
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You want a response? Well, here is one. First, a lot of what Caputo said is just plain wrong. Secondly, comments like that do not deserve a response. Two questions and then a comment.
1. In the final agreement Atlas demanded a statement that the MEC would not initiate any action against any Atlas crewmember that crossed the line. Hey, if no one crossed, why need that clause?
2. If no one crossed why worry about it at all? I was on the line and if you were in the right, why run around the back, you weren't doing anything wrong, correct?
Finally, our MEC had the foresight to get all the ducks in a row before making these very serious charges and while I deplore the unofficial list that was posted on this forum, I am pretty sure there was a lot of scabbing. All I needed was my portable radio to listen to the "Polar" call signs on departure, and the ones that changed call signs in flight, to know that something was up. And, a few with long range lenses got another bunch.
1. In the final agreement Atlas demanded a statement that the MEC would not initiate any action against any Atlas crewmember that crossed the line. Hey, if no one crossed, why need that clause?
2. If no one crossed why worry about it at all? I was on the line and if you were in the right, why run around the back, you weren't doing anything wrong, correct?
Finally, our MEC had the foresight to get all the ducks in a row before making these very serious charges and while I deplore the unofficial list that was posted on this forum, I am pretty sure there was a lot of scabbing. All I needed was my portable radio to listen to the "Polar" call signs on departure, and the ones that changed call signs in flight, to know that something was up. And, a few with long range lenses got another bunch.
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Originally Posted by trashhauler
All I needed was my portable radio to listen to the "Polar" call signs on departure, and the ones that changed call signs in flight, to know that something was up. And, a few with long range lenses got another bunch.
Top Dog
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Just a comment about callsigns. I guess you all know I'm CLX/CV. We've used AirFrance/Luftie/El Al Air Vietnam and many others. ACMI is not our primary business (it is yours...) but it gets done from time to time. Air Atlanta use ours everyday. No big deal.
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Tiger Guy
As an ALPA member I find it appalling that any ALPA member and especially the MEC Vice Chair would get on a forum and spew this kind of crap to and about other ALPA brothers.
There is the proper place to settle this type of riff not on open forums.
If I was a member of the Atlas council I would be embarrassed to have him as my representive and would take action to have this individual removed from office. I have been in this Association for a long time and he is a disgrace to the organization.
There is the proper place to settle this type of riff not on open forums.
If I was a member of the Atlas council I would be embarrassed to have him as my representive and would take action to have this individual removed from office. I have been in this Association for a long time and he is a disgrace to the organization.
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Let's review
Ok, one more time, real loud, for those in the back or who may be hard of hearing.
A scab is someone who takes another's job.
In other words, Polar strikes and someone flies a Polar airplane full of Polar "stuff". Then that's a scab.
An Atlas guy who flies an AMC flight in an Atlas airplane is not and can never be scab.
Not even if he crosses some arbitrary line in front of some arbitrary hotel.
Not even if you wish really, really hard. It just can't be. I mean whose job was stolen if I go to the hotel? The maid's? Give me a break.
A scab is someone who takes another's job.
In other words, Polar strikes and someone flies a Polar airplane full of Polar "stuff". Then that's a scab.
An Atlas guy who flies an AMC flight in an Atlas airplane is not and can never be scab.
Not even if he crosses some arbitrary line in front of some arbitrary hotel.
Not even if you wish really, really hard. It just can't be. I mean whose job was stolen if I go to the hotel? The maid's? Give me a break.
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Whats appalling
Hey Tiger guy,
The comments by the vice chair were posted in Atlas Pilots VARS message and are for no one else's ears except Atlas pilots. Additionally, they were in response to Bobbbbb's sending a letter to 160 Atlas pilots calling them scabs and notifying them that he (and one assumes the rest of the polaroids) are taking action to have them thrown out of the union for being scabs. I would say your leadership is as much a disgrace to the union - maybe more - as it seems to me that no less than the ALPA national President has said, many times, publicly, that there were no Atlas scabs; and in fact if it weren't for the Atlas guys support, the ill advised and ill timed Polar strike would have gotten you all fired.
Face it, you were locked out - no polar planes flew, even with management pilots. You could not access your voice mail nor even call the company. In fact if it weren't for a certain Atlas FE giving you his codes to AIMS, you would not have been able to even tell when an Atlas plane was airborne. All the while your leadership was making side deals with management to keep their jobs, and lying to the MEC's of other airlines while the rest of you specifically targeted hotels with your gutless picketing. I am not sure the last time I saw a hotelier fly an airplane. If you were real men and unionists you would have put up a decent picket line and manned it like you should have.
Once again, this was a polaroid strike and no Atlas pilot flew a polar airplane nor a polar callsign nor even had a polar flight plan. There MAY (just MAY mind you) have been some polar cargo on Atlas airplanes just as their MAY have been some polar cargo on NWA, FedEx, and UPS. I can't remember the last time I was in the lower cargo compartment to inspect cargo but it was probably ...NEVER. It is pretty hard (and unreasonable) as well to inspect several thousand waybills during a one hour turn in ANC, or in the last five minutes from waybill deliver to engine start in PVG or ICN. So I can understand how a few pallets of cargo MIGHT have slipped through. It still doesn't make an Atlas pilot a scab though. Ask a UPS or FedEx pilot - they never even looked for your stuff.
So how in the heck would an Altas pilot REALLY know if he had Polar cargo onboard - just like how would a NWA pilot know he had Mesaba passengers on board. No matter how the polaroids and their psychotic leadership wish it, THERE WERE NO ATLAS SCABS.
You guys need serious help at the leadership level. I suggest that a good faith gesture would be to start a recall vote of Bobbbb and his cronies from class. If you don't it is liable to cost you all some serious moola.
The comments by the vice chair were posted in Atlas Pilots VARS message and are for no one else's ears except Atlas pilots. Additionally, they were in response to Bobbbbb's sending a letter to 160 Atlas pilots calling them scabs and notifying them that he (and one assumes the rest of the polaroids) are taking action to have them thrown out of the union for being scabs. I would say your leadership is as much a disgrace to the union - maybe more - as it seems to me that no less than the ALPA national President has said, many times, publicly, that there were no Atlas scabs; and in fact if it weren't for the Atlas guys support, the ill advised and ill timed Polar strike would have gotten you all fired.
Face it, you were locked out - no polar planes flew, even with management pilots. You could not access your voice mail nor even call the company. In fact if it weren't for a certain Atlas FE giving you his codes to AIMS, you would not have been able to even tell when an Atlas plane was airborne. All the while your leadership was making side deals with management to keep their jobs, and lying to the MEC's of other airlines while the rest of you specifically targeted hotels with your gutless picketing. I am not sure the last time I saw a hotelier fly an airplane. If you were real men and unionists you would have put up a decent picket line and manned it like you should have.
Once again, this was a polaroid strike and no Atlas pilot flew a polar airplane nor a polar callsign nor even had a polar flight plan. There MAY (just MAY mind you) have been some polar cargo on Atlas airplanes just as their MAY have been some polar cargo on NWA, FedEx, and UPS. I can't remember the last time I was in the lower cargo compartment to inspect cargo but it was probably ...NEVER. It is pretty hard (and unreasonable) as well to inspect several thousand waybills during a one hour turn in ANC, or in the last five minutes from waybill deliver to engine start in PVG or ICN. So I can understand how a few pallets of cargo MIGHT have slipped through. It still doesn't make an Atlas pilot a scab though. Ask a UPS or FedEx pilot - they never even looked for your stuff.
So how in the heck would an Altas pilot REALLY know if he had Polar cargo onboard - just like how would a NWA pilot know he had Mesaba passengers on board. No matter how the polaroids and their psychotic leadership wish it, THERE WERE NO ATLAS SCABS.
You guys need serious help at the leadership level. I suggest that a good faith gesture would be to start a recall vote of Bobbbb and his cronies from class. If you don't it is liable to cost you all some serious moola.
Last edited by DHC2 Driver; 29th Jan 2006 at 06:18.
Top Dog
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Checking waybills is a waste of time anyway. All you have to do is cut a new one with whichever company logo is in favour. Old one goes into an envelope and is stapled onto the back.
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Here we go again
Polar has always been at best a fair weather friend to the Atlas membership despite the Atlas union helping them out many many times over.
Here is a link to the MP3's and text of some of the more germane items:
Click Here to the Page I might Update with MP3's, and text documents
Just a recap for the short term memory at Polar.
Here is a link to the MP3's and text of some of the more germane items:
Click Here to the Page I might Update with MP3's, and text documents
Just a recap for the short term memory at Polar.
- Screwing up the "Alliance Agreement".
- Voting in a 6 month extension to their contract thus reducing leverage in negotiations with Atlas.
- No support on Atlas pickets (except two one in MIA and one in Purchase)
- Accepted 4 Atlas A/C while Atlas furloughed 170 during negotiations.
- Not accepting any furloughed Atlas pilots.
- Polar Negotiating Committee Chairman changes language of a crossover agreement during this time to "bottom of the list for Atlas" instead of agreed upon date of hire between MEC's.
- Of course, 15 minutes prior to an Atlas strike the Polar MEC requests relief from the agreed upon struck work rules to fly 5 of our A/C and ACMI contracts (China Airlines Contracts).
- Atlas caves due to Polar's willingness to fly our struck work.
- Polar in final phases of negotiations finds out 4 A/C originally Atlas are going back to Atlas. We told that would happen when they got them from us originally.
- Polar MEC Requests Atlas MEC to violate their contract that any city pairs operated by Polar and those original Atlas aircraft are struck work despite Polar's willingness to fly them at the cost of Atlas jobs earlier.
- Strike goes down and Polar gets ticked that we fly our normal ACMI (non-Polar flights).
- Polar MEC labels anyone flying at Atlas as a scab despite it being a different company just like UPS, DHL, FedEx, and NWA flying seperate ACMI flights from Polar.
- Atlas holds a sympathy strike in ANC and MIA and is soon ordered to return to work by Courts.
- Polar MEC starts another back door campaign calling Atlas crews "SCABS". Verified via other ALPA councils.
- Atlas crewmembers go without pay when refusing to go to work under CBA.
- Polar MEC says the Court order is a lie.
- Due to repeated violations Polar is ejected from ANC airport with picketing permit revoked.
- Harrasment of Atlas crews continue and no other pilot groups where harrassed despite other airlines accepting Polar cargo.
Last edited by mercpc9; 29th Jan 2006 at 14:41.
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I'm having trouble trying to figure out how another airline can fly "Polar cargo" when Polar isn't flying...
IIRC, Polar is a scheduled service. They "sell" space on their airplanes to freight forwarders, and maybe other similar customers. There is no "Polar cargo" until that cargo is consigned to Polar for shipment. If Polar isn't flying because of a strike, a sane freight forwarder will simply consign his freight to another airline rather than consign it to Polar and risk it sitting on the ground.
Am I missing something here?
IIRC, Polar is a scheduled service. They "sell" space on their airplanes to freight forwarders, and maybe other similar customers. There is no "Polar cargo" until that cargo is consigned to Polar for shipment. If Polar isn't flying because of a strike, a sane freight forwarder will simply consign his freight to another airline rather than consign it to Polar and risk it sitting on the ground.
Am I missing something here?
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Intruder, you are totally correct and same goes for any ACMI carrier, the freight they carry is their customer's freight. In the same way if any ACMI carrier goes on strike, their customer gives it to someone else. Or again with a pax carrier, if that carrier goes on strike the passengers just buy a ticket on another carrier. So much for leverage........
An easy example that happened a few years ago to a friend in MIA. His company imports clothes from Europe. His French wholesaler uses Air France. When the latter went on strike (pretty common thing over there hehehe) he rebooked on Fedex, lost a few days yes, but still made it on time for his customers. That was not Air France freight but HIS freight........ such is life, but some have a hard time understanding it.
An easy example that happened a few years ago to a friend in MIA. His company imports clothes from Europe. His French wholesaler uses Air France. When the latter went on strike (pretty common thing over there hehehe) he rebooked on Fedex, lost a few days yes, but still made it on time for his customers. That was not Air France freight but HIS freight........ such is life, but some have a hard time understanding it.
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Originally Posted by trashhauler
All I needed was my portable radio to listen to the "Polar" call signs on departure, and the ones that changed call signs in flight, to know that something was up. And, a few with long range lenses got another bunch.
But I'm really, really curious about your line about the long range lenses and what kind of "bunch" they got. Just what did they get?
Photos of planes changing paint jobs in flight?
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Polar Reality
I did make a comment a few months ago in reference to the polar mec caving into the aawh vp and accepting a contract that was not worth the so-called solidarity of the polar crew force.
First of all,as an American of Polish heritage, I resent the polar mec, ever using reference to solidarity. Hey, Mr.Caputo and many of us at Atlas walked a picket line in winter, spring, summer, etc., with only unemployment checks to keep us going, because our alpa brothers were getting tired of paying strike benefits. But that was 1989, I know, you have to let go!
Ninety-nine (99) per cent of Atlas crews, both line and management support what John accurately stated in his voicemail.
The polar mec caved and let down the real polar crews, and is still trying to
b___s___ all of us, and keep the animosity going, only for their own benefit!
First of all,as an American of Polish heritage, I resent the polar mec, ever using reference to solidarity. Hey, Mr.Caputo and many of us at Atlas walked a picket line in winter, spring, summer, etc., with only unemployment checks to keep us going, because our alpa brothers were getting tired of paying strike benefits. But that was 1989, I know, you have to let go!
Ninety-nine (99) per cent of Atlas crews, both line and management support what John accurately stated in his voicemail.
The polar mec caved and let down the real polar crews, and is still trying to
b___s___ all of us, and keep the animosity going, only for their own benefit!
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response
Good Evening Crewmembers, this is MEC Chairman Bobb Henderson with a VARS message for January 26, 2006.
Crewmembers, your MEC was very disappointed to hear Atlas MEC Vice Chairman John Caputo’s January 13 VARS message. That message was rife with distortions and, in some cases, outright falsehoods. You can judge for yourselves whether this rant is worthy of a professional airman and the sort of communication that one union member should put out concerning fellow union members. It would be possible to prepare a lengthy response refuting point by point the unfounded accusations in Mr. Caputo’s message. For the present, however, your MEC has chosen not to engage in a public “he said/she said” argument with another pilot. To do so would be unproductive and counter to your interests.
We all acknowledge that the relationship between the Atlas and Polar crewmember groups has been very strained since we were acquired by Atlas Worldwide Holdings in 2001. These difficulties persist to this day. We must also never forget, however, that we face a common enemy, a hostile management that attempts to provoke conflict between the two crewmember groups as a means of driving down the pay and work rules of both. We cannot permit management’s “divide and conquer” strategy to succeed. For better or worse, as long as our management goes forward with its plan to merge Atlas and Polar, we must exert every effort to build and preserve a united front in the upcoming negotiations.
On Tuesday, January 24, I appeared before the ALPA Executive Council. I told the council that the Polar crewmember group believes it is critical to find a process for airing and resolving once and for all the animosities between our two crewmember groups. I am pleased to report that the Executive Council and the national officers agreed and are now actively at work setting up such a process.
To demonstrate our good faith commitment to pursue a positive and durable working relationship with our fellow crewmembers at Atlas Worldwide Holdings, we will attempt to maintain a professional and positive tone in our communications with you. Our responsibility to you to seek the best possible outcome in the pending merger process demands no less.
PAC MEC Chairman
Bobb Henderson
Crewmembers, your MEC was very disappointed to hear Atlas MEC Vice Chairman John Caputo’s January 13 VARS message. That message was rife with distortions and, in some cases, outright falsehoods. You can judge for yourselves whether this rant is worthy of a professional airman and the sort of communication that one union member should put out concerning fellow union members. It would be possible to prepare a lengthy response refuting point by point the unfounded accusations in Mr. Caputo’s message. For the present, however, your MEC has chosen not to engage in a public “he said/she said” argument with another pilot. To do so would be unproductive and counter to your interests.
We all acknowledge that the relationship between the Atlas and Polar crewmember groups has been very strained since we were acquired by Atlas Worldwide Holdings in 2001. These difficulties persist to this day. We must also never forget, however, that we face a common enemy, a hostile management that attempts to provoke conflict between the two crewmember groups as a means of driving down the pay and work rules of both. We cannot permit management’s “divide and conquer” strategy to succeed. For better or worse, as long as our management goes forward with its plan to merge Atlas and Polar, we must exert every effort to build and preserve a united front in the upcoming negotiations.
On Tuesday, January 24, I appeared before the ALPA Executive Council. I told the council that the Polar crewmember group believes it is critical to find a process for airing and resolving once and for all the animosities between our two crewmember groups. I am pleased to report that the Executive Council and the national officers agreed and are now actively at work setting up such a process.
To demonstrate our good faith commitment to pursue a positive and durable working relationship with our fellow crewmembers at Atlas Worldwide Holdings, we will attempt to maintain a professional and positive tone in our communications with you. Our responsibility to you to seek the best possible outcome in the pending merger process demands no less.
PAC MEC Chairman
Bobb Henderson