So what's up at Polar? (Merged again & again)

[Intruder]

If you're confused, call the MEC hot line NOW. You have the number; it works worldwide.

[zerozero]

Let me rephrase that

Intruder--Fair enough.

I guess what I meant to say is that the MEC's message is clear enough, "Don't cross the line."

But you have to admit, given some of the activity described above, that it could be misinterpreted as sneaking about.

That's all I want to say. What do I have to hide? Nothing.

[Fr8Dog]

An Atlas F/O was suspended Monday without pay for refusing to cross the picket line at the Miami training center. I am not sure why the Polar pilots are picketing the training center.

[Perf Init]

For those Polar campers who read and or post (Heilhaavir)
to this forum thread:

Why are you (and other Polar campers) directing your efforts against Atlas Air (pilots) versus the source of your problems (as you claim) which is AAWWH ?

Seems that some of the membership have forgotten the broken down, ill maintained equipment Polar operated prior to the AAWWH purchase (from GE) of the flailing Polar operation.

AAWWH in an effort to clean-up that operation rid it of those broken-down Pratt 100's and replaced it by leasing AC from the Atlas Air fleet (74-400'S AND 74-200wGE engines). Polar in 2000/2001 was then providing direct hire to captain (74-200) at the time. The roster must contain some 50% hired from 2000 and now. And before this strike had pilots (since 2003) from this recent hire (2000/2001) flying as captain on the 74-400.

They (AAWWH) developed a Polar airline to understand what an on-time operation was as opposed to the maintenance delayed departure tomorrow or the next it had.

In the meantime Atlas Air pilots suffered the consequence of furlough, downgrade, and reduced pay opportunities in THEIR career position/choice/company. Not to mention the AAWWH simultaneous transfer of 74-400's (3) to GSS and EVA(1), and the start-up of the AACS operation (more Atlas Air pilot jobs and opportunities). All along, that membership (Atlas) treated you (Polar) with open arms and without ill gesture (until this day).

Oh, I've forgotten to mention the NO SUPPORT Atlas Air ALPA council got from the Polar Air (brothers?) during it's LAST HOUR contract negotiation.

I'm sure Atlas Air is not flying Polar freight but was their any to start with beforehand?

The so called Japanese routes were to/from a country in deep recession throughout the 90's and only until recent time has shown any life. The Polar South American routes were already duplicated at Atlas Air (of which AAWWH sold thereafter). So why was Polar Air ever "purchased" is beyond many. An ill-begotten idea/dream?

Could someone from the Polar camp please explain to the readership what Polar has brought to AAWWH other than plenty of write-offs and downs, debt, fuel bills, and missed/reduced opportunities for Atlas Air pilots?

:confused

Kalitta and Focus Air are hiring though

[Avius]

Perf Init,

I don't want to divert from the issue of this thread, but I feel some need to correct some of the statements about the missed AAWH opportunities, i.e. outsourcing jobs to GSS, AACS, etc.

I remember some 7 years ago when Atlas got their first 747-400 flying Cargolux contracts, thus taking opportunities from (unemployed) european pilots. Before/after a flight you guys were sneaking quietly by the Cargolux's Offices not to attract too much attention, fearing the Cargolux crews would let their anger down on you guys. Instead, you were treated with friendliness and dignity. It was just a matter of time, until the European pilots would get their jobs back, AACS and GSS are one of the ways making it happen. No ill feelings, just refreshing memories and "watering" down the statement about giving Atlas' opportunities away.

[Heilhaavir]

Good point Avius.

Zero, you're probably the most honest one.

Kev: screw Fell! Breakfast with you in HKG or anywhere else with pleasure. I do wish to remind you what you wrote at first <<In addition, Atlas pilots have been on the picket line and all those on the picket lines have been fed (free) by food from an Atlas pilot's restaurant>> and then corrected it by <<The food (hot-dogs) was delivered by an Atlas pilot Friday afternoon. Saturday I had it in my truck on my way to the line but there were no picketers in sight>> Definitely not a big deal, but quite different statements Thanks for the intent and time though and that's sincere.
As for Bob's story, well, I wasn't there and you weren't either most probably, so why talk about an incident we don't know happened for sure .... ask Mav, he seems to say it wasn't true, and I don't think he's a Fell fan. Then again, if he did knock on his friends' doors while they were away to tell their wives they are scabs, you should all get together and shut him up

Perf Init, like many others, you read what you want to read grasshopper Show me where I have EVER said that Atlas Air or their crews were the problem, just quote me once.... I have merely responded & corrected some statements which I know are wrong. I'll repeat one last time sweetie pie, PO can shut down anytime you or your "management" wants it, as far as I'm concerned. Indeed there are plenty of jobs out there and most importantly there is a life after PO Why AAWH hasn't closed the door yet, I really don't understand. Continuing to support a losing operation for years and now paying leases on airplanes that aren't even moving.......amazing "management" style , truly amazing.

As for Paul, my hat off to him, he has brass balls, he made a statement down in MIA while not having been forced to by anyone, knowing he'd be disciplined.

[Aftershock]

What is it the pilots want from this strike that is worth shutting down an airline and putting more than just themselves on the street?
Reading this thread and various other sources it seems to be about much more than just a wage increase.
Seems a shame that so many people and a great airline will suffer from this dispute.

[WhaleDriver]

Any wild guesses on who "GoodbyePolar" is? Location of Purchase, NY, and registered Sep. 2005.

[grazydedog]

goodbyepolar reply

ok , let me tell you why aawwh offer is patetic,and yo can go and then tell cato why:

we have been negotiating for more than 2 1/2 years, the merger has an 18 months time period ( we all know it will have to go to an arbitrator, you guys have not been negotiating in good faith from day one) , and after those 18 months, if the arbitrator decides to make the new contract better than each one of the individual contracts, aawwh has the rigth to refuse the merger, so Polar will have once again to negotiate , another 2 1/2 years. so , let's see, 10.5% pay raise for 6 1/2 years...... that does not even cover inflation ( remember polar crews are already the lowest paid) .

we wwold agree to a 10.55% raise with an automatic 5% raise if the merger is called off by aawwh after 18 months, but they don't want to agree to that, because they obbiously don't planon mergin the airlines, unless the arbitrator gives us something like atlas work rules and polar pay.

now go tell cato you moron.

[Beaver Driver]

GD,
You have been negotiating for 2 1/2 years? Is that before or after the raise you all accepted and approved to extend your contract for 6 months so the company could screw Atlas pilots first. Atlas pilots would have loved to be able to negotiate at the same time (strength in numbers, divide and conquer, etc etc) - instead you all voted with your wallets instead of your heads.

[grazydedog]

beaver drvr, that's after the 6 motnh exensitn. lso kep in mind that most polar crews did not vote with their wallets, they voted the extension because the company promised to file for mediation after the 6 month, and we were negotiating with lee Steele,who did try to negociate ingood faith but was not allowed by mutt. if we could take it back, we would .

goddbye polar, you are retarded or don't know what you are talking about. read the merger letter the aawwh has presented, there you can see that the company has the rigth to refuse the merger for ant economic or other busiiness decision it deems approiate ( read, if we don't ike what the arbitrator offer our crews) , so no, is not in alpa's court ,but in aawwh.

now go help cato pee

[Beaver Driver]

GD

Goodbyepolar=Jim Cato.

He's not worth the time it takes you to reply to him - and he is trying to confuse the issue. It's what he wants. His desire is for you to focus on him and take your mind off the real issues. He also loves to divide the pilots groups. That is why the Atlas Pilots wanted you on board for all of this. It is one reason the Atlas Pilots are so confused about your picket lines which focus only on them as well as the picture taking and name calling. They have tried solidarity with Polar but it is hard to do when Polar doesn't seem to want solidarity with them. Cato must see that it is working, at least a little bit, and is trying to divide you (again) by changing your focus back to the merger. Keep your eye on the issues and watch what they do, not what they say.

[Fr8Dog]

You all are a bunch of babies and make me sick! You are supposed to be professional pilots, but you act like school children. You have played right into Mr. Cato’s hand. You may not like him, but if he were working for you, he would be one of your most valuable employees. He is much smarter than you are ALL giving him credit for. And PLEASE learn to use the spell check at least. Some of you “highly educated” guys need to learn how to proof read your postings before you post.

[grazydedog]

bvr drvr, I think there is a lot of solidarity, and of course a bit of overzealous name calling always happens, even among brohers.

we do appreciate atlas solidarity, the only thing we wish is that national would issue a statement guarantiing full fligth loss pay to any atlas pilot who refuses to cross a polar picket line ( we both now your contract alows for it, so if you get terminated, any arbitrator will return you to full duty, probably in less than 30 days, since your contract allows for it). we believe this will happen again in 2 years unless what I have pointed out is done.

when it comes to mr cacas-goodbyepolar, know that we at polar have nothing to loose, since we get paid less than the starting pay for fo or cap at any contract carrier, so we don't care if it gets shut down and the slots and route authority goes back in the lottery for ups fdx or nwa. the statements that acmi is profitable and sqched is not is totally retarded. acmi is squed. flying, done for another airline that has so much work and is making so much money that they can't handle everything .how come they can make money and the second higest exec team in aviation usa can't???????


bvr drvr, good talking to you

No, not having that x CR2

[Fr8Dog]

This is what I mean about acting like school children. Mr. what ever dog, Do you kiss your Mother with that mouth?
Grow up man!

[grazydedog]

i can't grow up, i'm a 13 year old stuck in a 40 year old body.............it'a lovely curse

[411A]

Need more proof...?

Polar/ALPA guys, fools all.

Out on the street permanently I would guess, with their way of thinking.

Silly children.

[grazydedog]

oh, that was so hurtful 411,we really care about polar shutting down.
just curious, are you pathetic middle management or resentful scab?

[to fly or not to fly]

Strike

While I understand we all have the right to strike for a number of reasons, and I'm not just referring to Polar but to any unionized employee, there could not have been an worse time to do so. Polar is saying "we have nothing to lose", that couldn't be further from the truth. For so long the Polar pilots have said "we are keeping Atlas alive, that's why they bought us", and "its our routes that keep Atlas is business"....Apparently logic and facts are missing from your equation:

1. Polar Air Cargo has never made a profit, in it's history. Yes they have a few profitable routes, but the cost of operating it's fleet on it's other routes eats all that profit up, so what's the point of a boasting, for example "we've made$100 million dollars in revenue, when the cost of running the airline was $200 million? Your routes never kept Atlas running, Atlas has a history of making profits, might I add INDUSTRY RECORD profits, the only time the profits ceased was when they purchase Polar Air. One should have wondered when and entire airline could be purchased for less then the Texaco Building that Atlas is housed in, that something was arye.

2. How could the Polar pilots expect to make the same money as Atlas Crewmembers who as mentioned above have consistently earned their company high profits? 32% raise for a company that loses money, that is simply reaching for the clouds when you can barely raise your arm.

3. Polar pilots are now saying to everyone that they voted to strike based on MISINFORMATION from their union, wow that's a first. I don't want to see anyone ever lose work, we all have families to support, and my prayers are certainly with the families of the Polar employees, not just the pilots as it seems the company has seen its last day. In this day and age where there really are no secure, or long lasting jobs in aviation is it really wise to hang it up like this? When all they really have to do is ride out the next 12-18 months while Atlas is negotiating the new contract, as you guys will probably be one entity by then and would then reap the things you want, which is the same pay as Atlas crews?

I have a feeling after today Polar will be another legacy and fading memory.

[grazydedog]

mr cato, I mean " to fly or not to fly" .unfortunaly for you, atlas crews are behind s polar crews 100%, so unless you win the indictment in the NY court today, you are in trouble. please don't be retarded. all the atlas guys want the pol ar guys to get as good a contract as possible, just like we at polar want and will support our atlas brothers getting an industry leading contract 2 ( hopefully less) years from now ( we don't believe a merger will happened untill you and your buddy jeff are fired). ggod day and please stop postng here, you will not divide us and you won't be able to start any rumors.

to all the atlas guys reading this, thanks a lot for your support. we are now finally acting like a real national union. thanks again and i'll buy the first round wherever we meet next ( at this airline or the next)