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FlyingNun
Good one champ still spouting it’ll stay open in June, keep up hey? |
I doubt there will be many coming from the LHR base to HKG, even if technically able, with HKG PR. You can count on one hand the number of FRA based that did.
You'd be mad to come to this toxic nuthouse. And that's before you take into account the absolutely crap pay. There are other jobs in Europe now, and leaving aviation altogether would be an even better option in my opinion. |
With Hong Kong refusing to open their airport to less restrictive travel, the COVID virus still rampaging through the world, Cathay losing millions of dollars a month on all the expense of financing , storing and maintaining aircraft that do not fly, paying expensive pilots who do not fly , paying all the overheads that only make sense when used to the maximum or close to it, there is little wonder that resignations from Cathay have reached an all time high. No sensible pilot can see a future for themselves or their family at this failing airline. Rumour has it that at least ten pilots per week are leaving and also rumours that all the remaining pilots are using the low Cathay basic pay as a job seekers allowance before moving beyond Cathay; which leaves the prospects for recovery for the airline now remote. Cathay is in a long , slow death spiral propped up by false hope and government money. Just my own opinion and I hope that I am wrong. A huge shame , but it seems that the end is now inevitable.
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As far as the US base pilots, you are not wrong. K4 and 5Y have been hiring every CX pilot applying(self included). 5Y has a new contract(Mar 21) with a payscale just below FEDEX so most have a class date, are just waiting for another VSS and will never return. CX has become a great training airline producing pilots with type ratings and lots of time on the 747 and 777
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Buster that is one of the most hopeful posts on Fragrant Harbour in three years. The very best of luck to you guys.
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buster57
What are you on about? Atlas pay is basically regional airline garbage. A year 3 FO at FedEx will make more than a year 12 captain at Atlas, especially taking into account work rules. What is with this misinformation? |
Here is the article I was able to capture before the paywall took over like the guys to the north.
Cathay Pacific is proposing the closure of its London pilot base, placing nearly 100 jobs at risk as the airline commences consultation on employing Britain-based cockpit crew in future. Hong Kong’s embattled flag carrier is pursuing its latest cost-saving measure as part of drastically scaled-back operations overseas amid the Covid-19 pandemic, with its British base the latest to face closure following the shutdown of four other foreign branches. A similar base in the United States remains untouched. The airline has closed pilot bases in Canada, Germany, Australia and New Zealand in recent months, affecting 280 jobs, though dozens of crew members who were eligible to work in Hong Kong had opted to relocate. A spokeswoman confirmed the carrier’s latest intention. “We have notified our London-based pilots and their union representatives of a proposal to close our London pilot base,” she said. “This is simply a proposal at this stage and no decisions have been made.” The proposal to shut down the London base follows a similar move in April involving its Australian counterpart, which then resulted in a formal closure. The company pointed out many of the airline’s London crew members had not flown since April 2020, with the industry hammered by the pandemic. Before the health crisis, the Hong Kong-London Heathrow route was Cathay’s most lucrative long-haul destination with five daily flights. During the past year however, the airline has only been able to muster one flight per day at most. Cathay planes on the tarmac in Hong Kong. The carrier has been hammered by the pandemic. Photo: Winson Wong Cathay planes on the tarmac in Hong Kong. The carrier has been hammered by the pandemic. Photo: Winson Wong All overseas passenger fleet pilots had been placed on standby since May last year, the airline previously said, while furloughed Europe- and US-based pilots have been receiving half of their salary. Cathay Pacific lost a record HK$21.6 billion (US$2.8 billion) last year, and is on course to report a substantial loss for the first six months of 2021, but the figure is expected to be lower than the HK$9.9 billion recorded in the same period last year. Cathay Pacific says worst of Covid-19 financial crisis behind it Last October, the airline shut down its regional carrier Cathay Dragon amid a sweeping restructuring that cut 5,900 jobs, mostly in Hong Kong. Last summer, it was rescued by a government-led bailout to the tune of HK$39 billion. Cathay’s pilot numbers have plunged from more than 4,000 to fewer than 3,000 during the pandemic. The airline has started rehiring a handful of aircrew, dumped by the closure of Cathay Dragon, in anticipation of a tentative recovery in air traffic. It has seen demand for air travel collapse since the outbreak, with daily passenger volume falling 99 per cent at the height of the crisis. |
Not sure if it's written above, but for interest sakes, approximately 90 out of 125 (72%) guys in Aus chose to take redundancy (by my guess approximately $80-100 million HKD in payouts) The other point of note, there are basically zero flying jobs available in Aus atm, and a veeeeery slow recovery coming, so I'd expect a lot more than 72% of US and EU guys to give CX the flick.
Also heard GMA was surprised as to the large number of Aus pilots who chose to not come back to the Motherland. :D They get rid of expat benefits and wonder why expats don't want to work there. I agree with Ken, CX is backing themselves into a corner they will never recover from. Oct 2022 will be an interesting time..... |
We are extremely fortunate here, the US airlines are doing quite well so we have many options. Fair Winds and Following Seas to the rest of based pilots (Aussies, Kiwis, Brits, and Canucks) it has been an honor and privilege to fly with such talented aviators. Good luck to all.
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It sure is a shame. I certainly enjoyed flying with a very large percentage of the CX family (despite the garbage that they post on this forum!). I thought I had at least 15yrs left of my flying career, alas, it's ended.
Good luck to everyone. PS it's honour.....:ok: |
Originally Posted by Will IB Fayed
(Post 11082280)
Also heard GMA was surprised as to the large number of Aus pilots who chose to not come back to the Motherland
Re Aus base: 90 guys with about 30 years aviation experience each = 27,000 years of experience down the drain in one fell swoop. More to come, obviously. |
90 x 30 = 2,700 however, I fully agree, CX is dumping experience to save short term.
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Yep, it’s a crying shame………I still had 7 good years near the top of the pile….gone now in a blink….
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FlyingNun
No, he's right. It's actually 27,000 years of experience in the GFA mind. Somehow they believe their ridiculous Aussie anal pedanticism we've all grown painfully accustomed to equates to ~24,300 years of additional real world flying experience for them. They probably even logged it. |
OK4Wire
Just shows how out of touch she is….many have decided it is just not worth staying here. There are so many issues that the Pilot body is facing there will be many more of us to follow in the coming 12-18 months. It’s been a fun ride but the aviation sector in HK is never going to be the same again. Good luck to all wherever you are…….. |
Surprise ??
OK4Wire
Cummon folks.... At what point do you think this transplanted Swire smurf gained insight into unSwire concepts such as long term experience ?? Give me a break and quit postulating they have "proper" HR capabilities.. In Swire world re flight crew (or management for that matter), there is no SPACE on their profit/loss spreadsheet for those lofty ideals.. Think PC .. |
DFO says 'This is just a proposal at this stage. We will give careful consideration to all views....before making a decision on the future of the base'. Complete :mad:. He says that to comply with UK law. The decision has been made. The base will close, as will USA. Those with jobs to go to will take the $ and run. Others with PR will return to HKG to get current again and then depart.
All bases will close because POS18 is only legal in HKG. If the management weren't so :mad: stupid they would have closed the most expensive bases first. Instead they close Aussi (on zero pay) and Canada (offered to go on to zero pay to keep the base open) before UK and USA. |
I agree with much of what you've said. Except Canada was not efficient. The 747 guys had been crewing trips out of US bases for years after the freighter stopped going through Vancouver. And the US bases allow for complete domestic patterns in the US without having to deal with HKG CHP lunacy. USA will be shut down in "due course". I'd be amazed if it wasn't. First world labor laws to negotiate PoS18? LMAO.
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Vancouver was a bit of a jolly for those involved. Living in Whistler and having to take helicopters to the airport when the Sea to Sky was closed was always the best story I heard.
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I should clarify, I'm horrified at the shutdown of the Canadian bases. I was simply taking issue with the statement that the US bases were among the most expensive versus Canada. The passenger fleet isn't flying, and "COVID ZERO" dictates it won't be for a very long time. Thus those bases are pretty much equal. But the 747 is flying. So you have to weigh Vancouver and Toronto 747 versus the lower States. I would have been more than happy to find a way to keep those guys on.
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I suspect no other airline in history has been able to clear out so many pilots as quickly as CX has. It will be one for the Business School studies. Ironically, a career at CX was a mirage all along...it just took 5 decades to reveal it to be so.
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No Other ??
Sure there was, and for the exact same reasons... decades of MISMANAGEMENT..
Braniff, Eastern, PanAm, Ansett ...... |
....they went out of business. I'm talking about using a temporary situation to get rid of most of their senior, more expensive pilots. Cynical to a level that is incomprehensible (except this is the Swires and CX...so I shouldn't be that surprised with this outcome).
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I refer you to the comment above......given the state of HKG and the agenda of the CCP, CX will join that illustrious list of defunct airlines very shortly.......wakey, wakey.
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Rie
Rotary transport IS a good story, but the Concorde story is even better!! |
The Concorde story is good, but the same individual would load up 5000 kg more fuel than CFP, bump the CI up to 500, and streak across the Pacific to LAX…
To catch the last LUV flight to his hometown. To SAVE HIMSELF $39.95 FOR A NIGHT AT THE HACIENDA. |
Cost Index 500 would definitely get you a high speed Cruze!
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Weren't there chartered Learjets as well....
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Didn't some guy charter a Chieftain or a Cessna 310 from some Victorian country town to make his flight in MEL?
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Aero Vodochody
LOL. Definitely Andhe loved showing photos of his F50 to potential “investors” in a savings scheme…. |
The cos18 version of this is: ‘I once called an Uber, when I couldn’t get a taxi!’
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5t extra to make a connection to Sydney out of SFO.
Speedwindow open the entire way. Left the flight deck and out of the aircraft before anyone in 1st. Not uncommon, but with enough gold in the chest and hard currency on the 3rd floor to withstand whatever may come. Gone days. |
FYI those of you electing to return to HK would be wise to keep an eye on this new Bill tabled in Australia yesterday. It may mean you will not be allowed to return to Australia if you really need to. It very likely will pass as it is receiving little opposition.
https://theconversation.com/theres-n...stralia-119876 |
Errr, perhaps your post was in jest, but how many commuting CX pilots are likely to be classed as terrorists or a security risk? On the other hand, the Biosecurity Determination was recently amended and is likely to affect those trying to commute during the pandemic. The Determination was amended to remove the paragraph that gave Australian citizens who are ordinarily resident overseas an automatic exemption from the requirement to seek approval to leave Australia. They now have to apply for an exemption, just like anyone else who wants to leave the country.
On 1 August 2021 the Minister for Health and Aged Care amended the Biosecurity Determination 2020. From 11 August 2021 Australian citizens and permanent residents ordinarily resident in a country outside Australia will not be automatically exempt from Australia’s outward travel restrictions. From this date, they must apply for a travel exemption through the Travel Exemption Portal. |
So they might grant an exemption, they may not. Who’s going to take the risk? Plus as with everything to do with the Federal government, you might need a 3 months lead time
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Why the hell would anyone in their right mind elect to come back to Hong Kong on Cos18 off a base? That's the question you have to ask yourself.
I think being able to return to Australia is the least of your worries if your mental state is in such a poor condition that you would continue to work for cathay. Much better options out there, particularly outside of aviation. |
That might well be true for the younger folk, but it's not so easy for older pilots (say 55+) to change careers. Age discrimination is supposedly illegal, but most employers still prefer to hire younger employees. We all have different circumstances and for some it made sense to return to HK, if only for a few years. Mind you, not many made that choice.
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Rubbish. In the UK for instance there's a shortage of 100,000 HGV drivers. The super market shelves are half empty. Great pay, far better lifestyle and flexibility than flying. And a similar skill set needed.
Unless it's your fragile ego preventing you leaving this now toxic aviation industry, I don't really understand why anyone would keep chasing the bottom of the barrel. Especially with Cathay, which has gone from being one of the best paid and rewarding airlines to work for 10-20 years ago to quite possibly the absolute worst (taking into account the quality of life vis a vis renumeration and the truly dreadful dystopian life in Hong Kong). But I take your point - if you are at CX, approaching 55, worked here for a decade or two, and not able to jack it all in with a fair amount of savings you have gone severely off piste at some point, and frankly, it would be hopeless whatever or wherever you chose to go. So then yes, you might be stuck working for these :mad: mill owners. |
Average HGV pay in UK is 32,100 gross, average starting salaries is 21,000. Decent pay (a bit higher than overall average) but I wouldn’t say great. If you get a job driving fuel trucks for Shell or someone like that, with plenty of antisocial hours, can probably get up to mid 40’s. Need to pay for own training
And with average UK house price now over 250,000, that salary won’t buy you a decent place to live… |
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