I'm surprised that you're surprised!

The Base closures were communicated by the GMA. Somebody called 'Deborah' apparently??? (No, me neither)

Best wishes, Deb. At that.

stevieboy330

If it was a layoff, it would be 6 months as per the contract. There is a side letter that says the severance has to negotiated, then mediated, then binding arbitration.

Can, Aus & NZ bases
 

Looks like that expensive #UnconciousBias & #Diversity training Merlin Swire shoved down ALL "Managers" and Senior Employees throats didn't take hold like it should have ???
Seems when "Senior" managers (beginning with your 3rd floor mates) needed to "pick" they singled out MOSTLY those from 3 countries with other "similar" traits we'll not mention and additionally being highly qualified and experienced...The textbook definition of CONSCIOUS BIAS !!!

To get around this overt conclusion with ZERO chance of being criticised for "Unconscious Bias", the pathetic CX management minions could have done what was contractually agreed... LIFO.. But that was too simple so they went the BIASED route - AS EXPECTED..

Do as I say, not do as I do.

Wasn't the term they coined to describe themselves, 'Senior Leadership'?

bellcrank88

Ah that's not what my letter says !

Having looked at the UK government website for the Job Retention Scheme, it looks like that CX will start negotiations at the end of June 2021 for whatever they are planning to do with Europe.
Until the end of June, the UK Gov is paying up to £2,500 per month per employee, reducing in July and further in August then the scheme ends in September.
Under UK Law, they have to negociate for 45 days.
I was unable to lookup the US scheme to compare.
So for LON and FRA, the end date is September, assuming they annouce something before the end of June. That's why DM stated "later in the year" for Europe.
Meanwhile here in HKG, JRC is a policy, and the Government will not give anymore money, hence the announcment of VSS which is less generous than ERS.

Hot ......
Just heard. London base to remain open.
Swire don’t want it closed.
However, some contract adjustments to be negotiated.

it is a rumor network
 

Great RUMOR, unsubstantiated and wishful, but great news

Not a Rumor Viking, but a bar garden talk stuff.
London is too valuable to close despite the UK Law pain to CX.
Remember when CX wanted to close London after the 49ers, and Swire paid UKHMRC’s bill?
This time, market forces dictate contract adjustment only.
Some will leave and take the redundancy, some will stay on the new terms.
Frankfurt will cease especially now the UK is not in the EU.
Thats life in this pandemic, I’m afraid.
God bless us all.

Swire still might have influence over the strategic direction of Cathay, but it doesn’t have complete control. Traditionally the independent directors have voted with the Swire directors including the Chairman to generally point the company in London’s preferred direction.

Given the political climate in Hong Kong it will be interesting to see if the independent directors now side with the Air China directors including the Vice Chairman, particularly with the two “non voting” government directors looking over their shoulders. Should that occur Swire don’t have the numbers to pursue any agenda.

FlyingNun

Why is London too valuable to close?

Closing the base will have no effect other than the flights being crewed from HK as they were before bases began.

What market force does London hold that no other base does?

Good question. Why is London base too valuable to Swire?
There maybe other effects or reasons that we’re not privy to, but, there you go.
Why is there a Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd registered in the UK? not the parent airline but a separate entity?
Why are there few “Swire” entities such as Swire Pacific?
We don’t know, but there’s always a reason behind headline news...

Latest inside info is;

All bases to close, except London. Bloody well done for the LHR freighter crew who managed to hang on to that one!

And they sit in their back gardens for the last year while we all went through hell and back! Never mind!

The 777 is dead. All bases and 75% of hkg 777 pilots gone. Cos18, no seniority.

777 dead. Take the VSS. Bases gone.

Swire Pacific is a Hong Kong based company that owns shares in various companies including a 45% share of Cathay Pacific.

John Swire & Sons is a London based company that owns shares in various companies including a 48% share of Swire Pacific.

This gives London a 21% share of Cathay Pacific. Certainly that buys them influence, but do they get to trump Beijing’s 30% share of the airline? How much say does London have in how a Hong Kong government bailout package is distributed?
I’m not disputing what may have been heard in London, just questioning how influential the participants are.

Hey Flying Clog, when did you put in your notice?

Pistol. Clog is either right or he is wrong. What he is personally doing is somewhat irrelevant.

Yes mm, and Clog is probably right In his estimates. The 777 fleet as a whole flew 600hrs last month. They are only using 3 or 4 airframes. There will be cuts to bus pilots too but not as drastic.

Clog, If the 777 fleet is dead why is CX wasting money for storage fees, preventive maintenance and insurance for their 777s parked in the desert? Why are they waiting to sell the entire lot? Those airframes have less value with everyday that goes by. Why hasn't CX sold off the all 777 sims? Maybe your inside source can answer these questions. I have already used my joker so I cant go Airbus. I guess I'm completely screwed.

Last month of salary for most of the 777 guys. Start packing and head out fellas

I'm trying to imply that Flying Clog and some others are being disingenuous. Encouraging others to leave while they themselves have no intention to go anywhere.

The market for the 777 is saturated. Even if they wanted to sell it they would have no buyers. Maybe cheaper to put in storage and hope that it either comes back or can be flogged off later on. Just look at the unmentionable in the sand pit. Can't even flog off a 777 yet it's all painted up in white and good to go.

@ Flying clog,
EU/NAM based freighter crews where doing 28 days TCR, sitting in quarantine except in ANC. So they were not sitting in their back yard, actually they were in your backyard (CX city) while you sat in Tung Chung drinking your GT.
Regardless of Base or Race I respect all the work done by my fellow Cx crew on any type.
We are all in this together, and I hate to see bases and good crew go. but it has nothing to do with skill it seems political.

So, as I said... FRA is to be closed. I am so sorry to hear this, but it was predictable, non the less painful.
LHR will stay open for now until the numbers are gathered. Contracts to be revised with massive errosion of terms in line with COS18 (UK style)
I gather not many have PR in HKG at least not many F/O's, and that's exactly what CX are banking on, that most will accept the new terms.

Rod Eddington (CEO a million years ago) told me at a "meet and greet" back in 1993: ...."welcome to CX, but be aware that there are big changes coming and the airline is going to remain competitive in the market".... Well, he wasn't kidding! It truly grieves me to see how low they have brought the career value, to what was once the best airline in the world to work for. I'm very sorry for the base pilots and their predicament.

Gone are the days. Swire will pull out soon enough - a major Chinese airline will take over the business and Hong Kong will be just another hub. It´s the sad fact. Not much left to fight for, unless you´re a local. Looking back at the past two decades, anyone surprised and unable to see this coming - must be beyond naive. Best of luck with the future decision - please do yourselves the favor of making a plan. For the local Hong Kong pilots and crew - I wish you the best of luck with what once was a legacy airline carrier.

The above scenario is perfectly plausible and similar to one which I put forward earlier on a different thread, except I thought HKG would get divided amongst the big 3 from the mainland with the city as a virtual hub to keep costs down. Staff and aircraft maintenance at lower mainland rates, all the profits go to China and it’s a big stamp of authority on the city.

With CX having just raised US$650 million there is the possibility that the airline will survive which I also posted on another thread.

Investors won’t put up money like this to watch it go up in smoke, there has to be a survival plan on the table. Reducing cash burn would be top priority followed by restructuring into something which can make money post COVID.

Expect to see a downsizing of staff, fleet and network. More money would follow if there was light at the end of the tunnel and returns would be assured but at the moment this investment is speculative.

The EK style premium long haul hub model is out for the foreseeable future. Last September SQ had layoffs and decided on a different fleet mix going forward, with the B737, B787 and A350 being the primary types. Most B777s were grounded, there are orders for new ones but arriving in 2025/6, and 1/3 of the A380 fleet being retired.

CX and SQ are reasonably similar, so following Singapore’s example would be likely.

Wasn't it turned off years ago?

why would they only keep captains? That’s the most expensive solution. Seniority is a pre-Covid pipedream and the lack of fight from the union over the years means the company can swipe the scythe whenever and to whoever.

keep all the local captains and FOs. Fill in the gaps with C-scalers and company men/women. Find a job for the Instagram kings and queens. Bye bye B-scalers.

keep the captains, perhaps because they can fill any role for now and when the recovery comes. It takes ages to upgrade someone who is a so or fo.
not the cheapest in The short term but best situated for a quick recovery.

So that won’t be happening...

Downsizing steps

1 - VSS
2 - Close the bases (redundancies for those unable/unwilling to return to hk)
3 - no work permit renewals (more redundancies)
4 - involuntary redundancies of work permit holders
5 - involuntary redundancies of those holding PR/citizenship
i) bad apples?
ii) fleet specific?
iii) age? (keep the younger ones)

Question is how far down the list does it go? Hopefully no more than we have gone already ie 2 anything more would just be unimaginable.

main_dog

logic may be out of the window on this one, but not being able to crew a full 777 because you don't have a captain may be more expensive than keeping captains on the payroll instead of lower ranks.

CN1 & FO1 plus a suitable amount of trainers is all they need. Keeping the training machine ticking along slowly while a cost will keep things relatively “(new) normal” and ready to ramp up as time passes. Why have a CN3 or 4 when you have CN4/3 trainers.

A restructure would likely involve new contracts for the remaining staff on a "take it or leave it basis". Preference given to locals then PR holders followed by foreigners. Baby buses for the short range routes, A330 for the medium and a few A350s for the long haul. B777s largely remain grounded until demand picks up again, with a few kept flying to keep the operation current.

Once things pick up again, crewing requirements get reassessed and an agency is used to employ crew on fixed term contracts. Possibly one of the Chinese ones which provided pilots to the mainland airlines during the boom, or there may even be a Rishworth contract for the new entity. Names are checked against a black list before employment.

Isn’t on new contract when Captain do FO job will get FO pay?

Quite a few airlines ensure all their captains are RHS checked (very simple/short process) and so makes scheduling/rostering and standbys (especially last minute call outs) very easy and productive. I guess (and its only that) it is probably very efficient/cost effective in the longer term.

RHS check can have different levels, at the most basic it involves a couple of circuits flown in the F/Os chair which allows a Captain to sit on the right but as pilot monitoring only, no take offs or landings. A useful tool for rostering if there is a shortage of copilots.

Dual seat approval as PF is normally for instructors but a suitable training program could probably be approved.