Focus Night
 

Any info on the Hocus Pocus night and the line we were fed from the union on the dire straits the company is in?

Yep, prepare to be disappointed.

So the auditors report that the market has been ok with for 60 years has now got the ok from the AOA. Who knew?

Standby to get it all over your face and in your eyes.

Was there at least the courtesy offer of a reach around?

Let me guess, more pie in the sky, utopian dreaming and strategic ideals about changing the company managers culture/mindset?
Meanwhile the countdown to launch has begun in the tactical arena and we haven't even amassed the troops, let alone motivated them and outlined our tactical goals!
Doomed I say,what a shame.

If they say dire straights, direct them here:
Income Statement: 00293 - Financial Reports for Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd - MSN Money

Net Income:
2013 = $2.6b
2014 = $3.1b
2015 = $6b
2016 = -$.6b

Where did it go?

Balance Sheet (Cash & Short Term Investments):
End of the Year 2016: $21.1b

It would be best if you demonstrate the 'impact' your ask would have on these numbers, but realistically, numbers like that, they cannot claim "Dire Straights".

For the last couple of weeks you have all been well lubed by the propaganda.... So tonight I present you the ">>>>PINEAPPLE<<<<". This is the "fruit" of our efforts and guess where we want to put it?


Do you really need to go?


It aint going to be pretty! :ok:

Facts not Focus.
 

Why leave all that cash on the balance sheet of a publicly listed company when with a little hedge you can move it somewhere else?

I'm really starting to think this is real. Where did the cash go? We need to know. Who is profiting from the calamitous fuel hedges?

That trail is well hidden. You won't find out where the money went. And you can be sure that we won't be told.

I'm not being funny but if I ran a company that had p1ssed away a few billion or worse, why on earth would I show the books (uncooked or otherwise) to an financial analyst whose purpose is to see whether I'm telling porkies??

I wasn't at the Focus Night but was this elephant in the room question asked?

Well hidden trail... No doubt. So is that similar to money laundering?

Focus nights , it brings back nightmares of 1999 and the garbage that the company fed us back in those days , unfortunately the troops were not strong enough to stand up and be counted and as a result here we are again

Judging by some of the posts on the AOA forum nothing has really changed.

I would also go as far as to say this new AoA leader is reminding me of MG.

Amen!!!

+1

Your turn STW, dispute that. I can hardly wait.

Unfortunately I think the truth is more dire than some would like to believe. Hoping these muppets have the competence to pull off a major conspiracy and fraud is simply wishful thinking. The fact is they are muppets who had no more idea of where the price of fuel was heading than you or I. They gambled big simply because they can with no chance of personal loss but a 50 percent chance of personal gain in massive, unprecedented bonuses. There's nothing in the books worth hiding other than a 23 billion dollar embarrassment that the whole world knows and laughs about.

They aren't master criminals. They are incompetent.
But hey, if you can sleep easier thinking these people are brilliant then don't let me stop you.

Fair points, but if they destroy the package for pilots, what is worth saving here? If they honestly think pilot concessions are all that is standing between success and failure at CX, then the place is going down anyways. No savings we can give them will spare the Company from Darwin's theory. They'll have to adapt without me on this one.

Go where......?

The question was asked, and the accountant blatantly said that it didn't matter squat who the Hedge was with so stop fussing about it. DS then added that he hoped the hedge was with Swire, as then they could continue to run CX at a loss for a few years and keep us in a job, who knows?????????

Probably all true. Show me one post where I dispute anything Rod said.

I knew from the start the company will not give in.

If you or Rod are "buying" what the company now says, what relevance has that? I certainly don't and I never have.

Which is why I voted in favour of the TA when it was on the table.

And you and Rod and many others didn't , instead you were busy insulting me,
and still not a word of regret.

Classy.

So, did the accountant further intimate that the fuel hedge is somehow our problem now?

Furthermore, is this pineapple going to save the Company or just fatten AT's bonus?

Lets take a leaf out of the Ryanair pilots actions. Non unionized with over 80 bases and 4200 pilots throughout Europe they have acted within 48 hours to have management backing down and offering huge pay increases to keep the show on the road.

What a waste of time.
Committees position 'same old same old' and not a single inspirational message for the troops.
HKAOA not fit for purpose.

I'm with Progress Wanchai. What's with the crazy who's-on-the-other-side-of-the-fuel-hedge conspiracy?

Occam's razor anyone?? Management at this airline are plain incompetent. They can't even run make money with a monopoly in Hong Kong, yet alone come up with some devious ingenious scheme to steal billions from their employees.

Close, but I think you are still incorrect, STL.

I reckon London came up with that idea. Our incompetents simply did what they were told.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

It would seem reasonably fair to assist the company with some form of concessions. After all, it is in our own interest that the company survives and thrives.

HOWEVER, ... BUT, ... HANG ON A SEC:

A big NO to permanent concessions! They are after immediate 10% savings from the FOP workforce. They want that from a combination of more productivity, frozen salaries, reduced housing and reduced MPF.

Concessions could be made, but only for a limited time. The obvious limited would be when the fuel hedges expire. Moving forward from that, as the company returns to profit, formula need to be in place to return the concessions via increased profit share to those who helped.

That would be a genuine WIN/WIN.

Arse,

Remove your head from your username.

There was a time I would have been sympathetic to helping the company out on the promise of payback. However, 2009 killed that after the backflip on 25 year Housing and them short-changing the Captains 10%.

Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting we get it in writing. RPs were in writing and look what happened to them. Any concessions you give are permanent dispite what's written in the brochure.

Also, let's not forget that Alan Joyce got concessions from his work force to "save" Qantas. A few years later his pay doubled to $AUD 24.6m, about $HK150m.

Let's not kid ourselves as to what's about to happen. You are going to asked to do more for less so Management can prosper. You are probably going to accept this because you fear the consequences if you don't agree.

How does the quote go?.... Oh yeah... "To my bonus"

Has anyone led by example on salaries, pfund, housing at board level?

Liam

Sincere thanks for your completely BS reply.

In keeping with your "add nothing to the discussion" style; I would say that if anybody's head is anywhere, it is yours in the sand! At the very least blinded by bitterness.

Yes. Lets keep doing what we have for the last 25+ years. Result: LOSE/LOSE

Yes. Not returning 100% of the Captains SLS concession was pathetic.

Yes. Not honoring the 25 years housing was unconscionable.

Yes. Alan Joyce is a dick.

I am not suggesting your little Timmy writes any agreement. Perhaps professionals. Wow, ... what a concept!

I will assume you are smart enough to know the definition of insanity.

Arse,

I suspect you are too young to remember our very own DFO's claim that "the contract is binding in honour only".

Liam is right.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4905876/Ryanair-boss-Michael-O-Leary-faces-shareholders.html

I agree entirely that the board was incompetent in their decision to hedge the way they did. If we give concessions I would like to see the board give similar. Lock them in to pay reductions, no bonuses, until we see serious profits again. Is that unreasonable or are they just all talk and only want the rest of the staff to suffer from their incompetance?

Dear Mr Rod: A post flight beer or two? Good on you. Good for the soul.

Mr Wire: You would be very wrong about that. :)

Gentleman: I understand your craziness. Life would be very boring without it.

Mr Ipad: Excellent idea. Very reasonable.

Yep Arse,

I know the definition of insanity, it's agreeing concessions with this lot on the promise of some future reward and then being shocked when the future reward doesn't happen... 25 year Housing, Instructor Pilots, Promise to settle Paris, settling the SHP payments with FAU but not the pilots, HPE talks and then on Day 1 announce double SOs.

Interesting how you saw my comment about Joyce as him just being a dick. I used him as example as to how this game is played. Employees grant concessions, management reap the rewards... I don't think that makes him a dick....

Perhaps if you read my posts a bit more closely you might appreciate them a bit more... Just saying....

Hi Liam

Quick review. Having made a perfectly reasonable suggestion, your response so far has been to whine, bitch, moan and rant. Oh, ... and throw in a few indirect personal attacks. Excellent work!

I can only assume you have no positive suggestions to make, so therefore must be happy to take the incoming pineapple, ... while you whine, bitch, moan and rant of course? You must be such an inspiration to work with! Fantastic.

In relation to Qantas and Joyce: A few years back the Qantas pilots did exactly what I am suggesting. They gave concessions, in return for increasing future profit sharing, when certain levels were triggered. Now that Qantas has recorded their second largest profit ever, the pilots have done reasonably well! Certainly better than making permanent concessions for no return.

I am fully aware that you are so blinkered and disillusioned and there is no logical or rational argument you will accept. Just saying.

PS: I apoligise for the unreasonable amount of sarcasm. Not my first choice, but it seems to be a language you understand! The irony of that statement is not lost on me! :)

PPS: Would you be interested in a WIN/WIN outcome?

Arse,

The Qantas pilots have done reasonably well? Really?

Want to put some numbers to that? Start from when Joyce locked them out.

Always amazes me how some are so easily fooled by the company propaganda, even by those who have been here a long time and have seen first hand how deceitful and immoral this management is. And yet like a beaten pathetic dog they come back for more punishment thinking there will be a win/win outcome by giving concessions to a management that has continually year on year given themselves huge bonuses and pay increases. You arse are a spineless cheap whore.