Direct entry
 

Why on earth are we allowing direct entry pilots?

What happens to those of us losing time to upgrade?

Is this what working here has come to?

Exactly we didnt allow it, we voted it down but tell than to our ever so active union who seems to be so on top of all the important issues that affect us. I dont have an answer for you cause nothing is going to change , so just start looking for another job and try not to lose to much sleep over it!:ok:

The problem with these guys coming back is not with them being upgraded so fast, they only get what we don't BID FOR. It's the fact that they come back and accept CRAP money because CX is the EASY option.
They lower the BAR even more

Forget any payrise gentlemen.

The Oasis returnees have seen to that.

Thanks guys

Can anyone tell me what exactly these gentlemen are being offered in terms of employment, base, position, aircraft type etc.

Didn't I hear a while ago that DEFOs would only be hired on bases? Now we have DEFOs in Hong Kong too and from what I heard they're being offered local terms only.

ACMS try telling that to all the second officers that wand to bid for the Tornoto or sydney bases but cant because the company is not rostering there upgrade interviews. A brand new SO cant even bid for the HK based freight FO positions... im angry about that am im not even an SO

I hear you. That is total BS.
This ain't good for any of us.:=

So where is OUR AOA????

come on ST.......

BA pilots are ready to strike over Open Skies yet we sit back and allow direct entry commands from ASL, Dragonair and now Oasis!

I wish the very best of luck to all from Oasis but am a little disappointed that those who chose to leave CX (or indeed chose a different career path) now join and will without doubt lower our (long serving CX employees) terms and conditions!

Wrote this on another thread, but it fits better here..

Of the SO's I know who joined Cathay with the intention of getting a base, the majority wished they'd put off joining until they had accumulated the qualifications for a DEFO based position, or that they could resign right now and rejoin as a DEFO on a base.

With the latter being an unnaceptable option to management, most guys are watching their basing prospects erode away right in front of their eyes. In fact, they'll most likely be making the bunk for the DEFO hired two years later who's now sitting on your base slot blocking it for the better part of your career. Stuck in the slowest lane, replaying the shallow and brutally misleading words of the Cathay's "career options" presentation during the final interview in your mind.

Seniority means nothing as you career choices are reduced to 1)FO on base until retirement or a 2)FC in Hong Kong until retirement. Neither requires seniority once on base, which will likely happen right after your wife has taken your kids and left you for a DEFO flying out of her hometown while you're trying to remember what blue sky and green grass looked like.

The full realization of all this is that Cathay don't fear a turnover of SO's. When an SO quits in frustration (and they do), there's another 10 waiting to take his place with their eyeshades firmly in place on until it's too late. And the circle repeats.

Read your Contracts
 

CX has previously employed Direct Entry FO's on Base... nothing new. It's allowed for in your contract and is a right the company has defended strenuously for some time.

However, what is new are the terms offered, being COS08. Direct Entry FO/ Capt on the Freighter on a HK base/terms has been around for a while. Two schools of thought; why should you care what terms are offered to new joiners? Alternatively, people joining on reduced T&Cs can only reduce your T&C's over time.

Bit rich to attack the AOA when 2 out of 3 guys couldn't be @rsed to fill in a simply 5 minute survey... what is ST supposed to do?

and yes.. that includes you Flyingkiwi.. who comes on here attacking the AOA for not returning his emails when a simple phone call would have sufficed....:ugh:

Now it's your turn
 

Many of the anonymous mouthpieces on this forum have continued to berate the A scale pilots for doing nothing during the introduction of B scales.

Now, we have a flood of DEFO's and a return to CX of pilots who left for Oasis.

So lads, now it's your turn. Tell me, what are you going to do about it? My guess, absolutely nothing. Or of course, you'll whine, and blame somebody else.

Enough said!!!!

I heard as a rumour that CX is even offering direct entry captain positions to former Oasis crew ( on the freighter ). Anybody knows more about that ??
If true this would be a reason for me to leave immediately.

Just like when we did nothing about C scales in OZ:D

Idiot, get a grip mate.

At least we stood up voted and were counted to try and stop the C scales on the base.

What did you do to stop the B scales?

yeah I thought so.:=

RM, a former 777 STC will be re-hired as a direct entry FO to HKG 400 Freighter. A week later he will become a Capt...........just like that, Magic.
But on around $100,000 HKD month ( maybe less ) and no expat allowances at all ( shame really )

The company claim that no one else wants the position so it's awarded in Seniority.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T ADVERTISED THE SLOT HAVE THEY?

tut tut

It's not surprising that very few ex CX take up the offer.

Not only direcy entry commands but also RA65, and we were objecting to the evil "A-Scalers" wishing to extend !

No replies, so I add : which other major airline would be allowed to recruit direct entry commands on reduced T&Cs without comment from their existing employees?

Get a backbone chaps!

Actually the 'O' scale Captains get an 'allowance' of HK$ 24,000 which equates to.......OASIS housing allowance!!!! :}

Yep it's all true, try and bid for a freighter command in HK at the moment and the reply is that there is none available and you will have to wait for a NTC to come out. Meanwhile they are interviewing people from outside and giving them the exact same freighter commands- great isn't it??

My reliable source said no expat allowances>? well this just keeps getting better:\


Where is OUR AOA

The ex CX "Classic" guys apparently have to go back on the Classic!

Acms, you may recall it was the mass exodus of crew to Oasis that got your peers across the road a significant payrise. Perhaps you blokes should try it.

Acms,

You regularly seem to get the wrong end of the stick. Please try a little bit of research before you launch off. 24,000HKD Special Allowance is the local pay scale allowance for Captains only. It is not an expat allowance its exactly the same as the local Captains get.:ok:

The 49'ers that came back didn't think so:confused:

BusyB,
surely you aren't implying the 49ers we have back are happy with the deal? They lost years of earnings, have to take freighter positions for a few years before they get back to where they should have been. On top of that, only around 12-14? got their jobs back out of the 18-21? that reapplied. Discounting that some had reached retirement age that implies around another 15-20 that were so disgusted with the deal that they didn't even reapply.

I think the 49ers deal is like Oasis - if earning anything, no matter how !!!!ty a deal, is more important than unemployment, then you will take it.

But don't confuse that with the 49ers being 'happy' with their deal! I am certain that if you surveyed ALL the 49ers you would find over 80% very unhappy with the 'deal' the AOA got them. I know I for one was very unhappy with the deal, but the AOA GC scaremongering campaign carried out before the vote was very effective in scaring members to vote For the deal!

Hi NC,

No, I don't think it was a great deal but it was the only one going. A number of guys I spoke to, despite being disappointed with it, were still happy to take it for the sake of their families.

Its all very well having principles but sometimes you have to consider whether you should give a priority to your family over others.

I hope the legals go well, I do support them, but its been another 3 yrs since some got their jobs back and its not finished yet. Some can afford that, others can't.:(

BusyB, glad to see that you are donating to the CPU!

OH SO TRUE :{:{

very happy to be corrected. My info came from someone in the Line ops dept.

So if the rumors are true, ex-Oasis are being hired as direct entry Captain on the freighter?? Surely there are CX FOs wanting those positions?? How do they get away with that?? Are there any FO out there reading this that want such a position but are being told it's not available?

There is a simple solution to much of this. Make bidding and seniority transparent. If not for anyone else, then to the AOA.

It should be one of the top priorities of the AOA, because it seems obvious that CX is not capable of adminstrating the system we've agreed to.

There's a long, backed-up list of Cat A'd F/Os right now waiting for command courses into next year for SYD, YVR, and MAN bases. So, if someone that left CX to go to OASIS returns as a direct entry captain, will his command training delay those CX guys while he get checked out? There'd be something severely WRONG with that!

Anger management.....
 

Latest rumour on the street is that CX wants to stop offering vacancies to the freighter in HKG as they will now be full up with the lot from Oasis etc.
Hopefully the AOA can get the point across to CX that they need to honour (poor choice of words I know) the timeline and upgrade the guys who are Cat A'd for the freighter from last Nov before they steal all the course spots for the newly re-hired ex Oasis dudes.

Since when has CX put a cap on HKG vacancies?
What gonna happen years from now when all outports are on-shored? Are we to expect that CX will shut future vacancies back to HKG so we could be all stuck on bases forever?

Not a problem once you've just taken one but what happens if you want to come back for a few years of slightly not so !!!! rosters.....

Sorry for rambling....... LED

Direct entry Captains from Oasis/BA
 

Saw the contract. FO's joining on 46,000 HK$ pm no benefits.

If prev CN, DE FO join on 'fast track' scheme. Thus, next day they are offered -F command, thus preventing any CX list guys getting a freighter cmd.

A gift to the company and these ridiculous pay scales are a very thin end of the wedge. Forget any payrise methinks if the guys join on those terms.

AOA. WHAT are you doing???:{

KA First
 

Don't forget that the 70 KA guys are joining ahead of the Oasis new joiners and 30 of them are captains.
If oil stays above $120 much longer then I think new joiners will be the least of our problems.
BA are already talking about parking up aircraft, specifically 737, 747 and 767 in order to survive the downturn this coming winter, we won't be far behind and then how many new crew will be needed?

I was told tonight by a Check Capt. that the Oasis guys are being offered to stay on their bases and still rejoin cathay...didnt know O has bases.. but something to think about... new joiners retaining their bases when guys are waiting for bases to come up...sounds fair! :(

ifp

Whiners
 

Lots of whining on this post, the same talking heads as usual. Rather than complain about what the AOA is not doing, may I suggest that you say what you are doing for the AOA.

I don't see anyone standing up to take over the position of Chairman from ST. With the likes of ACMS, who thinks he has all the answers, one would think that there would be a plethora of potential candidates to vote for.

But like I have said in the past, many of these anonymous posts are from people who are part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. You know the ones, they come and will do your job for lesser pay and benefits. Of course, they then complain that we didn't do anything to stop CX from offering it.

Given ACMS's rant against A scale pilots, I would expect that he would be jumping at the opportunity to be Chairman and correct all those wrongs.

Won't hold my breath!!!!

Actually i have put my name forward for the GC!

Just what we need more Kiwi's on the GC?

SAD,

If you think you can do better mate, then go ahead and put your best foot forward....

box

Oasis
 

CXF HK Command package HK$84k plus HK$24 housing. Basically HK$12k a month less than they got at Oasis.

Over 100 applicants, but apparently CX are only interested in about 35 total. Initial batch all ex-CX individuals (the usual suspects) for the CAD approved short conversion, over the next few months.

Subsequent batches of non-ex-CX guys to be slotted in much later on, according to CX guys who have been following up on their based freighter Command course slots. "D*nly doesn't know how" has been telling people that there is no delay to their 744F Commands in SYD/YVR etc.

Some of the rejoiners have been quite vocal about their interest in rapidly rejoining checking and training. Management would have to be quite excited about that!

Imagine getting a 744 Captain to work for an extra HK$840 a month as a trainer, or HK$1176 per month as an STC!

If you are a CX 744 trainer or checker, you would have to be worried about your extension terms now, while checking these guys to line.

Ka to Cx
 

The 30 or so Ka captains are joining as f/o rapid upgrade. We all know that some will fall foul of the CX system, maybe 5-6 statistically. Courses for none type rated skippers already been delayed (esp Airbus guys) till next year or longer.

How many guys have achieved rapid upgrade, anyone know?

Yes Oasis did have a base, Gatwick. This was their initial joining base, when they started up, filled by ex BA and VAA guys. However, HKG became the real "base" due to the cost savings in paying HK$.