Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Direct entry

Old 7th May 2008, 08:08
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Direct entry

Why on earth are we allowing direct entry pilots?

What happens to those of us losing time to upgrade?

Is this what working here has come to?
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Old 7th May 2008, 08:38
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Exactly we didnt allow it, we voted it down but tell than to our ever so active union who seems to be so on top of all the important issues that affect us. I dont have an answer for you cause nothing is going to change , so just start looking for another job and try not to lose to much sleep over it!
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Old 7th May 2008, 09:26
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The problem with these guys coming back is not with them being upgraded so fast, they only get what we don't BID FOR. It's the fact that they come back and accept CRAP money because CX is the EASY option.
They lower the BAR even more

Forget any payrise gentlemen.

The Oasis returnees have seen to that.

Thanks guys
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:32
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Can anyone tell me what exactly these gentlemen are being offered in terms of employment, base, position, aircraft type etc.
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Old 7th May 2008, 11:06
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Didn't I hear a while ago that DEFOs would only be hired on bases? Now we have DEFOs in Hong Kong too and from what I heard they're being offered local terms only.
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Old 7th May 2008, 12:02
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ACMS
they only get what we don't BID FOR.
try telling that to all the second officers that wand to bid for the Tornoto or sydney bases but cant because the company is not rostering there upgrade interviews. A brand new SO cant even bid for the HK based freight FO positions... im angry about that am im not even an SO
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Old 7th May 2008, 12:12
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I hear you. That is total BS.
This ain't good for any of us.

So where is OUR AOA????

come on ST.......
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Old 7th May 2008, 12:21
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BA pilots are ready to strike over Open Skies yet we sit back and allow direct entry commands from ASL, Dragonair and now Oasis!

I wish the very best of luck to all from Oasis but am a little disappointed that those who chose to leave CX (or indeed chose a different career path) now join and will without doubt lower our (long serving CX employees) terms and conditions!
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Old 7th May 2008, 12:27
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Wrote this on another thread, but it fits better here..

Of the SO's I know who joined Cathay with the intention of getting a base, the majority wished they'd put off joining until they had accumulated the qualifications for a DEFO based position, or that they could resign right now and rejoin as a DEFO on a base.

With the latter being an unnaceptable option to management, most guys are watching their basing prospects erode away right in front of their eyes. In fact, they'll most likely be making the bunk for the DEFO hired two years later who's now sitting on your base slot blocking it for the better part of your career. Stuck in the slowest lane, replaying the shallow and brutally misleading words of the Cathay's "career options" presentation during the final interview in your mind.

Seniority means nothing as you career choices are reduced to 1)FO on base until retirement or a 2)FC in Hong Kong until retirement. Neither requires seniority once on base, which will likely happen right after your wife has taken your kids and left you for a DEFO flying out of her hometown while you're trying to remember what blue sky and green grass looked like.

The full realization of all this is that Cathay don't fear a turnover of SO's. When an SO quits in frustration (and they do), there's another 10 waiting to take his place with their eyeshades firmly in place on until it's too late. And the circle repeats.
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Old 7th May 2008, 12:27
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Read your Contracts

CX has previously employed Direct Entry FO's on Base... nothing new. It's allowed for in your contract and is a right the company has defended strenuously for some time.

However, what is new are the terms offered, being COS08. Direct Entry FO/ Capt on the Freighter on a HK base/terms has been around for a while. Two schools of thought; why should you care what terms are offered to new joiners? Alternatively, people joining on reduced T&Cs can only reduce your T&C's over time.

Bit rich to attack the AOA when 2 out of 3 guys couldn't be @rsed to fill in a simply 5 minute survey... what is ST supposed to do?

and yes.. that includes you Flyingkiwi.. who comes on here attacking the AOA for not returning his emails when a simple phone call would have sufficed....
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Old 7th May 2008, 15:27
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Now it's your turn

Many of the anonymous mouthpieces on this forum have continued to berate the A scale pilots for doing nothing during the introduction of B scales.

Now, we have a flood of DEFO's and a return to CX of pilots who left for Oasis.

So lads, now it's your turn. Tell me, what are you going to do about it? My guess, absolutely nothing. Or of course, you'll whine, and blame somebody else.

Enough said!!!!
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Old 7th May 2008, 15:35
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I heard as a rumour that CX is even offering direct entry captain positions to former Oasis crew ( on the freighter ). Anybody knows more about that ??
If true this would be a reason for me to leave immediately.
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Old 7th May 2008, 15:35
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Just like when we did nothing about C scales in OZ

Idiot, get a grip mate.

At least we stood up voted and were counted to try and stop the C scales on the base.

What did you do to stop the B scales?

yeah I thought so.
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Old 7th May 2008, 15:41
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RM, a former 777 STC will be re-hired as a direct entry FO to HKG 400 Freighter. A week later he will become a Capt...........just like that, Magic.
But on around $100,000 HKD month ( maybe less ) and no expat allowances at all ( shame really )

The company claim that no one else wants the position so it's awarded in Seniority.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T ADVERTISED THE SLOT HAVE THEY?

tut tut

It's not surprising that very few ex CX take up the offer.
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Old 7th May 2008, 16:39
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Not only direcy entry commands but also RA65, and we were objecting to the evil "A-Scalers" wishing to extend !
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Old 7th May 2008, 17:14
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No replies, so I add : which other major airline would be allowed to recruit direct entry commands on reduced T&Cs without comment from their existing employees?

Get a backbone chaps!
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Old 7th May 2008, 17:19
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Cool

Actually the 'O' scale Captains get an 'allowance' of HK$ 24,000 which equates to.......OASIS housing allowance!!!!
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Old 8th May 2008, 01:59
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Yep it's all true, try and bid for a freighter command in HK at the moment and the reply is that there is none available and you will have to wait for a NTC to come out. Meanwhile they are interviewing people from outside and giving them the exact same freighter commands- great isn't it??
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Old 8th May 2008, 02:38
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My reliable source said no expat allowances>? well this just keeps getting better


Where is OUR AOA
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Old 8th May 2008, 08:19
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The ex CX "Classic" guys apparently have to go back on the Classic!
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