Unilaterally imposed Conditions of Service
 

So it'll be a good turn out for the EK roadshow on Friday and Saturday then?!!

Yip the Sandpit is sounding better and better....What now?? These guys just keep taking....and we get what....3% + some HDP. Yipee! Friggin tossers:mad:

That 3% should almost cover this weeks drop in the value of the USD/HKD! Thanks! :(

Yeah...what a slap in the face!!!

The sandpit is DEFINATELY looking better and better..not so much for the money, but at least they HAVE future plans..put their money where their mouth is..and actually ordered aeroplanes, growing, growing, growing...

And for the cynical bunch on these forums: (take note Busybody,mismanagement and chairman-of-the-girls-club).. guys WILL leave...it's not just cheap talk...

See ya at the roadshow!!!;)

"slapfaan-by-day...slapfaan-by-night"

The Bat
 

Well once again CX has had to "Impose" its desires on us. I've lost count how many times they have done that in the past 19 years. The pathetic increases they "offer" and the massive change in CoS is a joke. It is time for people to look elsewhere. If you are not in that position then I would suggest now is the time to organize your life so you can asap. We will NEVER get a real negoiated deal. Lets all stop pretending that thing will change, they won't. Have a look at your life, if you are not happy make a change, save your money, payoff your bills, get a type endorsment, look for something else. Nothing would make a statement more than walking in with your uniform and books in hand and giving notice. When asked why just say, I don't like working here, goodbye.
Airlines around the world are short pilots, salaries are jumping by double digits, conditions are getting better. CX has its head in its.... in the sand.

I looked at the recruitment website for EK. Looks very professional, then had a look at the CX website. The professional layout of the EK website got my attention.

Then had a closer look at the product, awards won ( the once that Phillip C loved so much, made him a real good pig cutter). Etc.

Purely based on the difference levels of professionalism reflected by the websites I have no choice but to go and check them out.

C U on the MTR

Not another "New" COS
 

Good evening,

It appears that we have yet again, been given another new COS. There have been so many changes since I joined CX, I really am not quite sure what COS I'm now on.

At first glance, this new COS change will have no real impact on me. I've been given a meagre payrise tied to HDP, and should I choose, I can now stay past 55 at my present payscale. However, for our younger members, the impact of these changes will be harder to quantify. Only time wll tell if there is an adverse effect on their progression due to the extended retirement age and the integration of ASL.

My real concern is I think that there is an even greater issue here, that for whatever reason, is being overlooked. Imagine, here we are in a time of unprecedented growth and record profits. We're told that last years record profits are supposedly going to be dwarfed by this years gains. It's boomtime, however, all I was able to secure is a meagre payrise of 1.7%, starting next year, and tied to productivity through HDP. Moreover, my profit share was only 6.4 days and I won't get a 13th month. What we are being given, in no way reflects the success of this company, nor the reality of the airline industry.

Now, given these meagre gains in the boom times, just imagine how much CX will want back in the down times. If the HKAOA cannot negotiate something of substance when we supposedly have the upper hand, what success will they have when the company wants to reduce our package.

Now, that's scary!

Sounds like there might be a quorum at the EK show?

From the latest fleet forum I attended, it seems Cathay has found another novel way to solve some of the crewing issues they are faced with. Direct from the horses mouth, quote

" B777 F/O's are to be P2X'd back to the 744 to fly as S/O's"

This is on the back of three man long haul / 21 hour duty peroids(AFTL's) that are as we speak, being approved by the HKCAD.

Anyone from the AOA care to comment?

Just read the new COS....very disapointing to say the least.

Question: after a current SO (employed before Jan 08) upgrades to FO and then goes on a base...on which pay scale will he be? The "old" one or the new COS08? There is a huge difference between the two.

The Misses is buying a new Jaguar but she doesn’t know which color to choose. Can someone help?

I need some help on deciding where to buy a condo. We were thinking on London UK, Whistler CAN, or Phuket, TH.

Bugger, I’ll get the Misses the red one and I will buy all three.

Got to like that new COS don’t you. Brings a smile to my face. You’ll love the new AFTL’s even better.

Our new joiners, S/O’s, JF/O’s and F/O’s may not like it but we needed to reduce your conditions and time to command to retain our Senior Management and Senior pilots. They are of course the people that keep this airline running.

You may receive some bypass pay when we CAT A you one month before your course.

Time to command may increase but remaining in the co-pilots seat for another 6-7 years will only increase your experience. Imagine how much you can learn from our Senior Captains on their base.

The time to get a basing may increase somewhat but it will only be 10 years. You can enjoy that time in Hong Kong with the beautiful scenery and great expat package. It will broaden your horizons.

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome our ASL brethrens to our team. Remember Volume 1.

Here’s to my booooooooooooooonus. Got to love it. Great time to be a Manager don’t you think.

Now put you head in the sand and it will feel better in a couple of months.

The Management

Congratulations to the AOA for once again achieving...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!

So the new CO's gets forced down our throats...and just to stop a few of us from squeeling, a ridiculous little payrise to make up for 10 years of inflation and living cost increases...

Why people still bother to contribute to this worthless, useless, gut-less organization, goes beyond me...Oh yeah..sorry..it's for "THE CAUSE":ok:

WestCoastCapt..you hit the nail right on it's head..cx has, and always will have some hidden agenda..so me reckons if you can't fight 'em..join 'em..get as many ratings as you can..get as much housing money as you can..play their little game of majong...and when you've had enough fun, look elsewhere..

Wait for the downturn
 

Westcoastcapt hit it on the head. It was only a few months ago that there was a full page picture of a couple of Cathays "leaders???" , slapping each other on the back for the huge half year gain. Now this is the best they will do. Just imagine what awaits us in any future downturn in business. For those younger members don't wait. Look elsewhere.

I read the AOA email last night and once again it would seem that S.Turner has his hands in the cookie jar. From my reading of the email, it sounded like it was all our fault!! And the smart a$% that he is, he even has the audacity to tell us that he was expecting this response from the company.

My personal view is that i am leaving the AOA as quickly as i can, I have lost all my faith in it and what it is supposed to stand for. And just to rub salt into our wounds, !!!!e for brains P.Walker insults me by telling me that the numbers that the company got from our own negotiators is what they are offering us. Although knowing who our negotiators are/were, it doesnt surprise me.

Yes i am fuming, and i am sure that someone is going to post saying we need to all stick together, blah blah...been doing that since i have been in this company and i havent seen anything positive yet.

And yes i am looking elsewhere, and yes the sandpit looks great, however, remember if your thinking of going there they dont have no Unions so on thinking about it, its much the same here i guess...I wont be attending the EK roadshow, as i am sure that CX will have people there wanting to screw me again so i will do it the old fashioned way via the internet!! If you do go to the roadshow, make sure that you speak to Donna, she is the chick to see :) My mates in Dragonair have formed a company and 20 Captains are in negotiations with China Airlines at the moment, asking for $18KUS/month and a free first class ticket to Oz...same thing happening with Korean Air and here we are fighting a lost battle for a frigging 3% payrise, WTF!!!!!!

If the company thinks I am going to be checked by an ASL C&T Capt they better think again ,

Reality check
 

Well, maybe this time I see things a little different. Just an opinion nothing more. Guy's and gals if you think for one minute that EK is a better deal you maybe a little surprised if and when you go. They have the same problems we have and pay less than we do. To give up your seniority here to start all over there isn't really that smart is it? Dubai is not Hong Kong! Train system-huh? Pollution-yes as well, you think it's hot here? No bases anywhere else!!!Come on lets be realisitic we all may not be happy but dare I say it? The new deal is really not that bad-UH OH did I hear a pin drop? If you really research airlines and conditions all over the world you WILL find that CX has the best deal around overall. Can it be better, do we want more, of course. As a pilot group we will never truly get everything we think we deserve. "(HKAOA)Ladies and gentlemen we have reached a new deal with the company. We get a 100% raise and only have to fly on thursdays. (Member) You mean every thursday?" I am already hearing that some of the UPS boys are already regretting their move. They work very hard and you only get TWO WEEKS leave.
What this does in effect is null and void the AOA. I hate to say that but it is the reality. The AOA is an association and not a union. They have no power what so ever and never will. Next change is AFTL's. That is what is really going to hurt.
I guess I'd throw a fit too but this is a business and we are employees. You can choose to accept the reality or not. The fact is it could be a lot worse. They are not taking anything away. The FACA agreement was not being honored by most anyway. ASL was a mistake and now is being fixed. Cathay will not run their company based on what we think or want. No business will. Look at what happened to all those airlines in the US after 9/11. The employees there all lost a lot.
Yes, we can whine on PPRune as that is what it is for. Yes, you can leave but will be surprised at what is REALLY out there. Show up at the EK open house and go to an interview and see Dubai and the operation but really think about what you are doing. Don't sacrifice your life,job,family to just spite CX cause you will probably wind up spiting yourself. CX IS a good airline a good job and Hong Kong is a fun place. This is I guess an unfortunate reality?

Do listen to what Saturn said. DXB is not HK. There is a lot of very pissed off pilots at EK wanting out right now and are just waiying foe something better and after the traffic death,of a pilot, this past weekend many are just looking for somewhere safe for their families.

To add to this last year a Pilots daughter was killed in a car crash as well, let us not forget her.

Saturn,

I can't disagree with most of what you say. The problem is, and the star chamber love this little one, the trend! We are going nowhere fast while everybody else catches up. EK might not match us at this moment but in a year two they might well be much better off.

We are making huge profits and getting 3% for our troubles. Wow. As somebody stated earlier, when things turn south we will be asked/told to give up and help out.

We still might be among the best paid but for how long? We are trending downwards while the rest of the world hauls us in.

Oh and since when is Cathay happy to be equals with the rest of the world. I thought we invented flying and that's why we were paid more!!!!:ok:

W2

HKAOA: failed
 

You guys aren't going to the sandpit := Do your homework! Concentrate on improving the situation not running away from it.

Yes. The HKAOA leadership have failed. It was predictable because they didn't follow the rules:

1. The President should not be involved with negotiations. Failed.
2. Have a mandate and keep the GC informed or they might not support your deal. Failed.
3. Have credibility. Don't include those who lack judgment
4. Do have a lever and use it or else you will get cornered into what they want...CoS08. Failed.
5. Don't give rostering productivity (RP07) on the promise of talks on a payrise. You'll end up giving the productivity (RP07) and get just that ... "talks" on a payrise. Failed.

But most importantly; don't ever give up on fellow negotiators, Committee and 49er types who supported the cause and were unfairly terminated by management for it. You did, and as a result, you will be forever plagued by the inept and weak as your HKAOA leaders.

What to do about it? For a start, close the door on the AOA. It's not a union; you need a proper union, some smarts and plenty of resolve if you want to sort this management.

Please stop pretending that the grass is greener in Dubai; for starters, there is none.

I think those of you who think CX still have anywhere near the best Ts and Cs need to do a bit of research.