I have said what I came to say! The reason for "cxwannabe" as my handle is because I know many wannabes read this forum for information concerning joining CX. What better way to draw wannabes to your post than to ask the question. CXWANNABE?

For those who doubt whether I am with CX or not ask yourself why I would waste my time in the first place? A330, now go play with your icons and toy airplanes!

All I was hoping to do was inform you all about the situation here in HK. Now it's time to go and read the new contract I've just received....(second imposed contract in as many years!)

so cx wannabee...are your mates there accepting command training? if so why?

you just don't get it ... if you're so great or good , why keep on struggling ?? just walk and go somewhere else if you're so good ... why not ? no need to struggle anymore and go and get a job like you always wanted or maybe start your own airline and you get to do what you wanna do .... what do you think about that ? :)

What do I think A330......I think you are a pathetic idiot. It is your kind that is destructive to our profession. We know who you are, so don't bother applying. Your stay here at CX would be EXTREMELY miserable. :mad:

13 JULY - RYANAIR FIRE CHAIRMAN OF IRISH AIRLINE PILOTS UNION (HMMMM, IT'S CATCHING ON - ARE THE UNION GOING TO TELL THE REST OF THE FLYING WORLD NOT TO JOIN RYANAIR ?)
On Thursday 5th July, Captain X disrupted and delayed departure of Flight FR 226, when he insisted that he (and his crew) would not position to STN on the jump seats that were available and would only position in the cabin thereby forcing our ramp staff to try to off load some of our checked in, fare paying passengers. Captain X was instructed by operations to position on the jump seat, he refused and was therefore off loaded from the flight.

It is entirely unacceptable for any employee of this airline (be they front line staff, cabin crew, pilots, management or even board members) to refuse to travel on a jump seat or insist that they will only travel in the cabin, thereby requiring that checked in passengers be off loaded . Our passengers will at all time take priority over All Ryanair employees regardless of whether they are travelling on duty or non duty purposes. In these circumstances we had no alternative but to terminate Captains X's contract of employment with immediate effect.

We expect and thankfully get high quality leadership, good judgement and sound common sense from all Ryanairs pilots and in particular our Captains. Capatin X's behaviour last Thursday was the antitheses of the concern for our customers that we expect from all our staff.

It is our passengers who pay our wages, and under no circumstances will we ever tolerate a situation whereby passengers are either expected to, or be off loaded, to accommodate a staff member insisting on travelling in the cabin of our aircraft instead on an available jump seat.

CXWannabee, if you are really a CX driver, please stay off these pages and give 411A and IB57 something else to do with their time. It's none of their business, and all of ours.

well mr. canuck .. it aint your problem wheter i'm applying or not ... do you have any say or you can do to stop people from applying ??? hmmm another hero here , i'm wondering who's the idiot here ?

Oh yes Mr Kubota, y'all made it our business when the thread threatening prospective new hires with sanctions..myself or any mates just might be an applicant who's to know...so now you have made this topic the business of any potential cx applicant...you and that silly bunch at the union....

cxwannabe. A well written post. I agree totally with what you have to say.
I find your post to be factual and to the point.
I think you should join the rest of us though and leave this forum behind. There are to many people making posts here that have no idea of what is going on in Hong Kong.
You will not change the minds of those on this forum who choose to be misinformed.

100% AOA
NDND

Hmmm, think many on these forums now believe that the HKAOA only attempts to weave a veil of deception. Seems the company writes the music and the members of the band need to march to the company tune.....or play their horn elsewhere.
So, instead they try to intimidate others. A very sad group indeed.
Typical "union" BS!

Well chaps ..it seems all has been revealed!
411A's true identity has been discovered by some 'hot' computer buffs in the USA...now the 'gutless one' can finally be made accountable for everything he does...as we all are....i'd be expecting some flak shortly old boy.....good luck!

411A - Well, finally SOME truth to your posts, not only do you have a tenuous grasp of reality, you also have NO grasp of morality.

Just looked at the SCMP....again. Still no word from the spin doctors of the HKAOA. Could it be that they have nothing factual to say?
Meanwhile, CX just keep plugging along.
Suspect that all is not well in the "union" hierarchy.

411A

Go suck the big one..

Why is you union mongering folks always lower yourselves o threats and rude comments..could it be y'all have no valid points to make?

Not only do they not have any valid points, but notice that they have now rejected the latest olive branch from the company.
These "union" types have now been responsible for the dismissal of some fifty crew members, with the resultant upheaval to their families.
CX management seems quite determined to carry on flying, with or without these malcontents. The veiled threats and intimidation to prospective new recruits only point out the insufficiency of their agenda. Their PR machine is virtually nonexistant while the company continue to issue press releases with regularity pointing out the pilots intransigence.
Under these circumstances, the pilots only face continued misery. They can expect no improvement unless they change their collective attitudes. Suspect this will not be anytime soon.

They are kicking their own butts...and those of each other...

How do you figure that IronButt? CX is losing $40 million a day and their reputation is taking a shellacking everytime the Chinese carriers use the Cathay Pacific call sign.

Steady on AOA, the aim of the exercise is just about complete.

TTYL

Ctrl+C from R&N:
IMHO, a temporary "blanket" training "ban" on ALL training is the only FAIR solution - and a move that will enforce the point of view of ALL the pilots (with the company}.
This effectively takes "the heat" off the new hires, and the upgrades, and allows the TC's an extended training period - as required - because of outside duress.

IF CX management are willing to persist with a prolonged dispute, costing hundreds of millions of dollars from the shareholders' coffers, in an attempt to further the belief that a cry of, "We cannot afford it!!", it truly sounds a hollow ring by an UNACCOUNTABLE, EXCESSIVE management!

To date, this dispute has taken MORE THAN 210 MILLION DOLLARS from the shareholders pockets, in a matter of only 20 days.....

If ANY employee cost their company even 1% of that figure, he would have been summarily dismissed.
The current CX management has made an admirable stuff-up according to ANY figuring, as the pilots have done nothing more (or less) than to work to the exact letter of their contract.
That they CHOSE to DONATE their "goodwill" to their employer previously, should only be viewed in the context of "give and take"!

[ 23 July 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]

Shareholders normally don't care about intransient losses in a Company provided the long term outlook is acceptable to them. It's all paper money.Knocking down the big pay to pilots and cost cutting is viewed very favourably by shareholders in most Companies these daysso I wouldn't expect too much support from them.
you CX union heavies should come and work over here in the middle east airlines bet you a case of Scotch you would last a month and run back to Hong Kong begging for your Cathay job back. If I wasn't going home to Virgin next year I would probably come down there and grab a bit of that tax limited $$$ my self!

Kaptain M, you've hit the nail on the head. All the Cathay Pilot's have done thus far is to work to their contract - nothing more. Anywhere else in the world it would have no consquence, a company would expect nothing less. You sign a contract, that is what you are contracted to perform.

The withdrawal of good will has shown this management for what it is, extremely poor planners and decision makers who put an inordinate trust in the good will of the work force to ensure the continued operation of a multi - billion dollar company.

The answer is obvious. Throw the union a bone, get back to the negotiating table and deal with the situation like honourable men. To get the good will back, to get the Airline back will require cooler heads to prevail on the management side. Dare I say, some of those heads will roll in order to clean this mess up.

In this game of poker losses are mounting on all sides.

TTYL

Tornado Ali was leaving CX a couple of years ago. He told us that he had had enough and he was going to join Emirates. What happened TA? Did you see the Emirates contract and decide you were better off at CX, or did Emirates turn you down?

Messages on !!!!!!!!!!!!!! indicate that the CX pilots in LAX are being watched very closly by management types to see if the pilots are unnecessaraly delaying flights. Wonder if this is going on system-wide?
The drama continues......

No news on media regarding the CX dispute. I'm sure many are curious. An update may be timely perhaps?

Very easy to ask for better conditions. Ask any of the guys who are just plain dying for a job, and are willing to be SFOs for 3 yrs.In exchange for a pay cheque and a some good ole flying.
Yes I am all for the guys in CX asking for better conditions but dont ask "No Job JOEs"
not to apply for something that might make their lives better...

tea/coffee, what do you mean by SFO as this is the 2nd time I have noticed you using.

Sounds like you are a FA on CX. ;) ;)

Tea/coffee,

In Cathay-speak, a SFO is a Senior First Officer. I think you mean SO (Second Officer).

You say that you would happily do 3 years as a Second Officer. If however, nobody (those presently in CX and new joiners) support the guys that were fired the AOA would then cease to act as a "Union" and then seniority/promotion/ pay/condition would be at the whim of the company. You could be a SO for a very long time... assuming of course that you don't mis-read your roster and get fired!.. that'll look good on your CV... hope you didn't buy a flat in HKG.. or were forced to buy a debenture in the school.. wife is pregnant...

But what the hell you've got 800 P2X time..

It's your choice, keep an open mind.

It's interesting, and entirely predictable, to see old "friends" like eyes wide shut and IB57 etc espousing their tired old wind-up prejudices on us ... every time there's a dispute. Well, guys, unfortunately for you your ignorance has been sharply brought into focus. As has been explained here ad nauseam, ad infinitum, the work to rule currently in effect does not involve anything other than working to the letter of an employment contract. If you want to derive some kind of phony philosophy from that, then keep going - you'll no doubt find something that sits comfortably within the bounds of what you would call "safe morality"

This dispute is both simple and complex. It involves a shonky management, labour laws that fail to direct either party, and a union that has had to take multiple hits in quick succession - that hasn't regrouped as quickly as would have been ideal. But don't blame them for that - nobody's perfect, and under those conditions it is unlikely any labour organisation could have prevented what happened.

Now there is an IFALPA Recruitment Ban in place. I have to say that, for a dispute of this nature, such an action is highly unusual, and introduces a new level of complexity into the situation. Now such an action would be entirely appropriate for a work stoppage or lockout type situation, or something similar, but a work to rule is different, and necessarily so. With a work to rule the workers still (despite appearances here) have some measure of control with respect to the direction the action is taking, in theory at least. Notwithstanding that the sackings have (at least for those immediately affected) a similar industrial effect as a lockout, and therefore a recruitment ban is, at first glance, indicated, I think there is scope for some measure of discretion to be applied. CXWANNABE, I know what you are saying, and I agree with you, but as far as new entrants to the company are concerned, provided they are members in good standing of an IFALPA affiliated organisation, and provided they join the HKAOA on arrival in HK, then I think the more "good guys" you have on board the better. Obviously this goodwill should only extend to those who can show a good track record, which would be no problem for any of them, if indeed they are good guys.

In theory, now none of this would be possible with a recruitment ban in place. OK, for those contemplating applying, fine. They can simply GO AWAY until the dispute is resolved. But what about those who have already commenced the selection process? Should they tell Cathay thanks, but not this time, and have their application binned only to have the dispute work its way to conclusion days later? To effectively kill your career simply because of bad timing doesn't seem right. Of course the HKAOA could take the names of all those who choose not to take up positions and then petition the Company when the dust settles - but would they listen?

Since there is no stoppage in place, and since any new entrants won't be direct entry Capts or FOs, then they aren't scabs, not at least in the traditional sense of the term - my dictionary lists "scab" as "one who works during an industrial dispute" which would, by that definition, make EVERYONE at CX a scab. Now can you see the complexity of the situation?

I believe that this situation does not warrant a recruitment ban, but a message to all IFALPA affiliates to STRONGLY DISCOURAGE anyone from applying would, in my view, have been more equitable. You might say, well, sod that, we need to go as hard as possible. That's all very well, but if working to a document is the hardest you can go, as appears to be the case, then the bargaining position was never that great.

Good luck to the guys and girls in the AOA, to those who have been fired, hang in there, to all those wanting to apply, DON'T, to those who have applied, and get accepted, JOIN THE AOA - that will be the most important thing you will ever do.

DH