Couldn't be better said.

You guys are riding a dead horse.

Sadly they are not.

The captain was a 34-year-old UAE national who had been with Emirates since March 2001 and had logged 7,457 flight hours, including 5,123 hours on the Boeing 777.[1] The first officer was 37-year-old Australian national who had been with Emirates since October 2014 and had 7,957 flight hours, with 1,292 of them on the Boeing 777.


Where do you see a connection to cadets at CX? Experience clearly was not an issue. Fatigue seems more likely, considering rostering at EK..

Same question. Where is the connection?
Again, THOUSANDS of cadets flying and every year almost zero incidents. What is so hard to see? The data can't be more clear. Plus the customer doesn't care, nobody except some nerds even heard about these incidents.

That might depend on how you measure "experience"...:=

Look, I don't dispute that if every pilot had F16 carrier landing experience flying would be safer. But by how much? Which part of near zero accidents don't you guys understand??


How many of the Top 11 employ cadets/ low hour junior F/O??

The Top 20 Safest Airlines For 2023

1. Qantas
2. Air New Zealand
3. Etihad Airways
4. Qatar Airways
5. Singapore Airlines
6. TAP Air Portugal
7. Emirates
8. Alaska Airlines
9. EVA Air
10. Virgin Australia/Atlantic
11. Cathay Pacific Airways

Which part is so hard to understand????

the part where an F16 lands on a carrier, I jest I jest

That'd be a neat trick! :E

How long before we get cadets with J15 carrier experience?

You’re 66% less likely to have an incident when your airline is only operating a third of its capacity.

STW’s Stockholm Syndrome is well documented. Ironically, he accuses others of flogging a dead horse.

Statistical literacy is not a hallmark in here. Of course the ranking reflects a ratio, flown miles vs incidents etc.

Fact is that 7ish of the top 11 safest airlines hire cadets. You can continue to call that defending or praising Cx, but nothing could be further from the truth. I am stating facts. You can quote obscure flight numbers and whisper scandalous alleged near crashes all day long, fact is cadets are industry practice, since decades. To single out CX is ludicrous. And again, this is NOT defending them, it is pointing out FACTS.

I don't care about management or be called management stooge/ stockholm etc, because management is not important in the end.They are the symptom of the desease, not the cause. It's futile and frankly simple-minded to target them. It's the market which dictates the price of labor, not a single company. Covid gave them the unicorn chance to cut the T&C because they could not care less if pilots gave notice. Of course they used that. Time will tell if they have to pay more, but whoever points at cadets or talks about safety needs to look into the mirror first. Anybody not leaving is supporting COS 18. Stop being hypocrits and whinge about alleged safety risks, it's pathetic. If you stay you are collaborating, period. And if you did quit and accepted lower conditions elsewhere you are serving just a different master. Anybody who reads this IS the market. Stop blaming others or fake safety concerns. This is about money, be at least honest.

And whoever thinks American operators pay more because they value pilots higher needs to check into a mental institution. It's ONLY the market that is forcing them to pay more. No airline pays more than they have to. Different union power, migration / legislation laws, DEMAND AND SUPPLY, that is what decides in the end.

Head of nail, meet STW’s hammer.

STW is 100% correct. It’s all about the money. One way or another, everything is always about the money.

I said there's nothing inherently dangerous about hiring cadets, provided it's done right. None of those airlines you listed have had 1700 pilots bleed off from the top heavy end in 2.5 years and then try to replace them with cadets and some individuals with fake logbooks.

Experience is not just a matter of how long one has been doing a job. we've all worked with some who despite their many many thousands of hours and years at the job regardless of seat or rank, are terrible at their job. You can hire people like that who nobody else will hire, if you don't pay ****. When you don't pay ****, the people you lose are the ones others love to hire, and these are coincidentally the ones you can least afford to lose. Cathay has lost 1700 of those at last count. It goes against logic to think this has not had an effect on safety of the operation. Plus, the ones who are desperate enough to still be there under the financial stress of having lost 50% pay & benefits are not by any means at their average performance levels.

Cathay has been hiring individuals who after struggling in training are found to have fake logbooks with fake hours in them. That's how things are at cathay today. Remembering how difficult cathay's selection process used to be and to what lows it has sunk today, I feel guilty laughing my ass off... just a little.

it's funny Cathay isn't even in the top 10 list of safest airlines today. It's number 11.

well the good news is now cadets get 2 months of work experience as ground handlers in HKIA. Im sure theyll be extra sharp with the suitcase carrying/ baggage loading onto the crew busses etc. when they finally check to line.

3 x 9-hour shifts per week, I wonder what their threshold is?

That's because nobody wants to do the job and CX have taken the liberty to change a job description for a cadet pilot.

With COS 18 there might be a change to the handbook where all pilots will need to do a rotation on the tarmac to make HK great again.

When are those HK employer of the year awards due again?

He is! He’s also just so bloody arrogant.
Why can’t Mighty Mouse never seem to make a point without also pointing out his own superiority and commenting on others’ “lack of literacy”.
His air of superiority always overshadows his already obvious “intellect”.

Of those “7ish of the 11 safest airlines” who hire cadets, what kind of proportions are we talking about, STW?

I’m all for cadet hiring, as part of a wider hiring mix. So are many airlines. At most of those carriers, it’s a few percent of the total intake for obvious reasons. At CX it’s going to be almost all of it. The top half the of the experience shelf has collapsed. Don’t be so stupid as to pretend this isn’t impacting safety.

Oh - I thought the baggage handling/toilet cleaning secondment missives were a late April fools joke. Please tell me I’m right. Please.

Quite incredible to see what’s going on.

Rumour is training cadet SOs is so low priority in the training system that new cadets are now to do up to 3 months on ground duties at the airport.

Piet, it's a bit difficult to stay well-mannered when you get called as many names as me. The moment you point out flaws in an argument against CX you are immediately a company stooge etc. In fact, just this morning I received a friendly PM from a user calling himself "nkund" to suggest I should suck his (allegedly) generously proportioned gonads. You will be pleased to hear I respectfully declined, in the most polite words possible in such circumstances.

But sure, let's stay civilised, I'll try.