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Training ban broken
What recourse remains for us now?
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Work somewhere else
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all i can say is LOL.
****ty trainers being appointed against their will. The system is already broken as it is. way to make it even more broken. |
The standards guys are going to have their work cut out
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Finally the CAD will have to get involved. FOP have waited this long to do something this drastic because they know how risky it is.
Training is very much what CAD own and are directly responsible for. Legally. I cant wait for the invisible public servant responsible to say in writing that they are happy for this company to put people in these Training Captain positions under duress and threat. Last roll of the dice it would seem. |
The CAD has told them they can appoint training Captains |
Never heard if this ever before anywhere and cannot imagine how it could work, unless of course, as I already suspect, it will simply be a mechanism to allow "forced" appointments of those already interested, who then claim they had no choice.
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The CAD has told them they can appoint training Captains |
Originally Posted by mr did
(Post 10431277)
Without the individual pilot's consent?? Really? What is your source?
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So many will take the position when they are told to .just wait
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Blame yourselves. You get the Union you voted for. The DFO has just bragged how he and the GC are buddies getting stuff sorted. |
So if I get a letter in my mailbox saying “Congratulations, you have been selected to join the training department” what is the recourse if i say no? Do i lose my job? demoted to F/O? put on gardening leave? |
Maybe don’t read the vol8 on your next sim... |
They still ask. Just like they do when they tell you that you have a command course. You can delay it for all matter of reasons. So those that go in will be those that want to. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by Natca
(Post 10431316)
Read all the letters between the aoa and cad for the last few months. However the cad says only if the pilot is suitable to be a trainer, ie giving the individual a way out. Then again, there's your good old CX/Swire arrogance and condescension shining through... It's never failed them before now, has it? :rolleyes: |
Wow, if there was ever an ill-advised Swire/CX strategy destined to prove the law of "unintended consequence", this is it. Going out to purchase more popcorn...
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This will give all want to be trainers the ability to become trainers during the TB and just blame the company for forcing them. How do we know these appointed new trainers have not expressed their interest already?
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Originally Posted by Sand Man
(Post 10431892)
This will give all want to be trainers the ability to become trainers during the TB and just blame the company for forcing them. How do we know these appointed new trainers have not expressed their interest already?
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I heard about this two months ago that they asked the CAD if they can appoint training captains without their consent. They obviously said they can.
Originally Posted by mr did
(Post 10431277)
Without the individual pilot's consent?? Really? What is your source?
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No one will be made to do training. Anyone that does are those that have expressed interest in the past. It will be easy to tell as those selected will be sporadically located all over the seniority list .
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This is a cunning scheme devised by the company to circumvent the training ban . This way various Capts who want to go into training will simply say they were coerced to take a training position and simply couldn’t say NO ! . So let’s see how many pass the course and remain in training . If you don’t want to go into training it’s very easy to fail the course or the online training . But I am prepared to say that some will willingly take up the mantle . |
First the relaxed policy on DDO's, now this.
One has to wonder - has something changed at the CAD? New boss? New instructions from .Gov? |
Originally Posted by CyberT
(Post 10432049)
The list they already have will be used. When they move to people who have not volunteered, clearly state your position that you think you are unsuitable to train and are doing so against your will (in writing) . Make sure this is on the record. Any future “incidents” would of course uncover this fact and the consequences would be fairly dire for the Jellyfish. Having said this, the list of volunteers is probably fairly exhaustive from what I am hearing. One good thing is being forced to be a trainer....you dont answer your phone.....remember all those TC and STCs bitching about 20 or more roster changes each month..."your a manager now so you answer that phone".....thats over. They grab all they like but now you do your roster and dont **** with my roster....dont answer your phone....your demoted.....woohoo But hey for all those out there that said the training ban had no effect.......that was utter BS when CK had to resort to making it policy to upgrade to TC/STC. Right there on the video cant do JFO upgrades...same time they telling 777 FO your going into overtime in April...while we park jets and cancel flights. Well done AOA committee |
At a time where all the focus is on rosters and lifestyle. The forcing of training positions will be at the detriment of lifestyle and rosters, especially with the 4 year back log of training requirements that have been hidden behind the smoke screen of "training ban doesn't hurt the company" official statement. If people want these training positions then they can have them. They can then resent the same company that allowed them to loop hole into their crap roster. Oh, and perfect timing of you wanted a base.... 2 year embargo! Good luck getting that long overdue base. Sure you were forced into training!
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Just more evidence that confirms if you stay in HK and CX, you WILL regret your entire career at some point. Certainly you will reach a day where you wake up and bitterly wish you had taken the chance to leave when you had the opportunity.
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Originally Posted by RAT Management
(Post 10432052)
At a time where all the focus is on rosters and lifestyle. The forcing of training positions will be at the detriment of lifestyle and rosters, especially with the 4 year back log of training requirements that have been hidden behind the smoke screen of "training ban doesn't hurt the company" official statement. If people want these training positions then they can have them. They can then resent the same company that allowed them to loop hole into their crap roster. Oh, and perfect timing of you wanted a base.... 2 year embargo! Good luck getting that long overdue base. Sure you were forced into training!
**** just applied base....got a good shot at it and then they screw me out of my slot......OMFG |
Does anyone need more proof that our TB/CC has been slowly strangling the company? They can press-gang as many people as they want into training (in truth, it will really only be the ones that have indicated to the company they want to train), but it won't make any difference as more and more pilots wake up to the fact that they need to get themselves hired by an airline that is sane, and in a part of the world they can actually afford to raise a family in. There are too many holes in the dike, and no amount of management shenanigans will change the inevitable outcome of this failed and broken airline.
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Timing is coincidental with, apparently , trainers receiving an email, more joker leave and a company backed loss of license insurance. Union busting I'd say.
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Listen to this and let it sink in, especially if wearing a red lanyard: “Training appointments are at the sole discretion of the company and suitable pilots will no longer have the right to refuse a training appointment” (funny, I don’t see this statement in 14.8). Since this is absolutely the primary weapon in the pilot arsenal, do we stand together and resist - meaning STRIKE, no doubt individuals will be targeted and forced to make a choice (do they have the Union/pilot body behind them, or are they on their own?). This is the end game. End the Union, end pilot resistance. All the sweet talk - basings, pay talks, Arap, HKPA increase - just drinks to cloud your judgement until back at the flat with your clothes off. |
You pruners are such drama queens! They will appoint those already on the list into training. Anyone who is drafted into training against their wishes will be a thorn in the side of the CX training unit. It is folly to think that this will break a union or will solve the CX training problem. Safety is our number one priority, so I can imagine extra fuel and many more go arounds will be the norm! |
And the already stretched training resources will be tied up for 6 months training the new trainers. It's not like this is some quick fix. The last thing they will be able to achieve is a joker conversion for awarding base slots let alone any form of expansion, they're struggling to keep up with regulatory checks. Plus, some genius decided we should add training Virgin on the A50 into the mix - must have been a lucrative offer.
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Being forced into training is not an improvement in your COS, so it has to be agreed to. One can refuse a training appointment. Those who do accept 'forced' training appointments are company bitches. They must be kicked out of the AOA and treated as lepers.
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Please be realistic. Nobody can be FORCED or COERCED into a training position. Any new training Captains who appear on the roster will be people who have already expressed an interest in becoming a Training Captain. They will be acting under the cloak of legitimacy generated by the so called change as announced by the DFO. They will be volunteers. |
Scoreboard...Jesus mate. Do you even proof read your dribble? |
They must be kicked out of the AOA and treated as lepers. |
If any of these "forced trainers" are stupid enough to fall for this trick and not read their own cos which clearly states it is voluntary only and C&T is an equivalent to a management position. As COS reads they were hired to only operate company aircraft as per their cos and if they cant figure that out by reading their own contract god help us at the bull**** that they might be trying to "train" the rest of us on.
Lets hold these ban breakers accountable. |
The truthful answer to this is to say you have lost confidence in management and therefore cannot take up a management position. A list of reasons would be broken contracts, breach of FTL's, the list is endless.
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You can only go to the well so often which is what happened in the TB. Of course they were going to figure out a way around it, who wouldn't !! Now no strangle hold as well as no contract and everything company policy. Great job to the loud obnoxious NO people who shot down TA16, you have ruined everyones careers here as well as cost everyone a lot of money and security!!!
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Ruined career (supposedly by your colleagues). I suppose the only sensible thing to do then Samsonite is leave. Watch out for that swinging door on the way out.
(oh, and btw, those "loud obnoxious NO people" were the majority of voters in your union, just saying) |
In 2016 the NO vote (barely majority) was a bunch of followers listening to some big mouths that will always say NO to any deal. Air Profit, funny handle for someone who considers the careers earrings lost because of people like that as acceptable.. Typical, no common sense
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