So if it’s so bad....why aren’t you all quitting?
 

Ahaaaa
 

The fact that I just sold my HK place, and am having a new home built back in Oz should probably answer that question. The real question is why would anyone come here when those that are here are nearly all looking to escape? Real airlines don't have their pilots leaving in double digits per month.

Way to miss the point Gpilot (and why didn't you go for 4 ?, just for effect?). It's not about whether one particular pilot stays or leaves. It's about the fact that nearly every pilot between 25 and 45 yrs old are making serious plans to leave (I personally know of over 40 that are making such plans, they each probably know a similar number...and so on). It's about the fact that we are seeing nearly a pilot a day resign (4 on Monday alone). It's about the fact that nothing this management does at this point will change that situation. It's about the fact that we have the most odious managers in the industry. It's about the fact that nearly every pilot here (and their families) are utterly disillusioned and fed up. It's about the fact that HK is a toxic, unaffordable and oppressive place to live. It's about the fact that nearly every expat pilot will have left within a very short time. It's about the fact that most of us here have concluded that there is NO future in staying with CX. But you go right ahead and jump in the sea, the waters lovely. :rolleyes:

The simple answer is age vs seniority balanced against jobs in your home country, guessing as others have those below 45 can possibly do 20 years at another carrier.

How old are you Flava Saver?
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Because we're hoping bases will open up and that way we won't have to take time out converting licences to apply for jobs, sit stupid COMPASS tests, learning new manuals and start at the bottom of the seniority pile.

I don't mind the license conversions, learning new manuals and starting at the bottom of the seniority list - that's in any professional job; the stupid COMPASS tests is nothing more than a money making scam considering we are currently flying wide bodies internationally. HR treats everyone the same.

I'm one of those who quit. After almost a decade in this madhouse.

It's a damn hard choice. Throwing away all those years invested in what should have been a lifetime career choice.

It's not a single issue that tipped the scales. It's a creeping slide in the wrong direction, and you're always hoping things will start getting better. Always. And with every year invested you've got more to lose.

I finally came to the hard conclusion that things will never improve. They'll keep getting worse, because this outfit simply does not want me at current costs. And since they can't fire me simply for that, they'll make every effort to get me to leave voluntarily. Success.

Once that decision was made, it was easy. But many years too late.

For many with long careers prior to joining here, the loss in seniority a) first from your previous operation and b) from this lot leaves you 20 years behind. For many of us, that may well result in never getting a Command again.

The decision is hard, no doubt about it. But it is the right choice; none of us regret leaving but all of us regret not doing it sooner.

Hahahaha...."bases opening up"...!!!! You are KILLING me!! Ahhh, the naivety of youth... :rolleyes:

Only in aviation does a skilled veteran become a janitor when changing companies.

Only in aviation does a skilled veteran become a janitor when changing companies.

Makes starting again a difficult choice, we'd all be gone sooner should we be able to be employed in a role based on experience, funnily enough how the rest of the world operates.

No, a professional moves sideways or a step up within their field when they move companies.

I dont see doctors going from being a consultant back down to intern, A director moving companies to go back as Manager.

There is light at the end of the tunnel. Am following the grilling of CX management live... Be assured Swire will now take action and get rid of many of them. Slosar seriously stated that in hindsight, it was not good to delay the disclosure of the hacking for so long. Wow, anyone with so little foresight, believing to get away with hiding, lying and deceiving, is good for cleaning toilets, nothing else; apologies though to all toilet cleaners with integrity!

update from the grilling of Slosar:The Cathay CEO hints that the airline will keep passengers happy with vague promises of "special offers that people can get excited about"

wow... chocolate to the kids in this kindergarten company... This is the Chairman of a previous leading world airline...

Ah, for the good old days when Ivan was in charge. He would have cleverly explained how the data breach was a good thing.

Flava Saver,
I am still here because I am on expat contract and able to save enough money for an early retirement.
A bit like a prisoner who would tick out every day until he can enjoy his life again.
That's sad but it's what it is, I am too close to the release date to break out of jail !

On COS18, don't even dream of retiring early, you'll be jailed for 40 years !!!

Yay - he will lower ticket prices. Wonder what cost cutting will be expected to follow.

Maybe he'll re-introduce peanuts in Y.

BA (itself a victim of hacking earlier this year; yet handling it in a very professional way) has reacted aggressively; slashing ticket prices by almost half; selling a c- class return ticket from anywhere in Europe to HKG for under HK$ 18,000.--. At least some good news for the customer.

And CX: again self inflicted problems (Slosar called it the worst crisis CX has ever been in; worse than SARS), consequently declining customer confidence (and the fact that cockpit and cabin crew data were also hacked has not even been made public yet) and now the competition using this as an easy chance to get new customers; soon CX staff will have to suffer again from cost savings.

Protects you? From what? Continual degrading terms and conditions 😂

A DEC in Europe, no chance. Every European airline has a seniority list and you join at the bottom as an FO. If they then rapidly promote you th the LHS due experience levels then that is another matter.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. A large proportion of FO's currently resigning from European operators are doing it to take DEC's with others.

I think the answer to the OP comes in the form of seniority (one can argue pros and cons till the cows come home but it is the way it is and I don't think anyone has found a better way to do it) and when to cut your losses.

The Las Vegas syndrome is alive and well (i.e. when do I cut my losses and move on) with people believing they are due for a 'win' even though there's no rational reason to believe this is true. Still, it's a powerful human force not wanting to dump all that seniority and start over. In fact, I'm sure the company banks on this to string people along while spinning up their replacements. I can't fathom how anyone can believe they might wind up on a base at this point (the ONLY way this might happen is if EVERYTHING else fails--POS 18 doesn't attract refugee pilots, DEC's and DEFOs on whatever terms in HKG fails, individually negotiated extension contracts fail, etc -- and this will take years as it already has to figure out -- all the while one is dumping precious seniority elsewhere). And I can't fathom how one can expect a 'win' in things getting better when the overwhelming trajectory has been rapidly downward.

To me, it seems the 'break' point is around 50-ish. Below this, IMHO, one would be absolutely nuts to stay one day more than necessary to find a new job wherever (unless he or she were figuring on a few years working in aviation then going into a wholly different career field). Above this, it becomes a matter of making life fun and manageable and minimizing work's impact on life while getting ready for early retirement (socking away money at the higher scales in the process while also fixing up oneself addressing previously 'deferred maintenance' which needs to be done on the body).

In any case, as I've said in the past, I think it wise to remember your 'golden years' are RIGHT NOW. The most precious resource in your life is time--and no one knows how much time they get. Finances are only one (small) aspect of this picture--and do you really want to pi$$ away your best years over a bribe so cheap ? If you're thinking things will get better, they won't. If you're thinking you will get a base, you won't. Simple as that and the cards are all on the table. If you're really happy with the way the cards look and the way your life is going--great. If not move on. But don't expect pie-in-the sky false promises to materialize.

The one major question I'd ask is there ANYONE -- anyone at all -- who has decided to move on and has regretted the decision ? I know of many who have moved on--universally their life is much happier now. NOT ONE has regretted the decision in any way.

Sage advice, Slasher1.

Agreed. To date, those that I know who sold their flat in HKG, paid off a house or flat in their homeland, and repatriated, ALL have told me they have no regrets. It's become an issue of QOL primarily.
I know a few that left for the ME3 carriers - some have regrets as they were told one thing, only to discover that was not the case upon arrival.

Basically it's a personal decision. What makes one person happy doesn't necessarily make another person happy. What are you seeking? Multiple properties and fancy lifestyle? Paid off single place and savings in the bank? Living in the moment and enjoying Life to the fullest each second? It's all a personal choice.

Ryanair Easyjet,Whizz Norwegian ALL have seniority list based on Base area DOJ

CXorcist
 

Great note and spot on however, as we always tend to do, don't get distracted by what the Swires try to drive home. They are absolute experts at deflection and the pilot group happens to be a great shiny ball that they hope keeps everyone looking away from the reality of how mismanaged this once great company is. The pilots are to blame?

I think not.

• How many subsidiary's have been created to suck profit from the once ultra profitable CX ? There's 8 listed on IntraCX and they don't mention HAECO, HAECO Americas, HAESL etc. etc.
• Someone please Google Cathay Pacific loses lawsuit / is fined etc. Were talking dozens of lawsuits and hundreds of millions of US$, worldwide..How many have they simply settled out of court (Paris basing) ?
• What was the total Fuel Hedging loss? I'm guessing but 4 to 5 BILLION US$
• Just look at the debacle CX is now in regarding the Data Loss. What will be the cost? They have literally been caught being dishonest on many levels and those responsible, all very high ranking and highly paid (Swire) "leadership" types who it is "their Corporate, Legal and/or Fiduciary duty" to disclose these types of issues to the relevant government/corporate entities however, they specifically and purposefully chose not to.

This is definitely not an all inclusive list however from this, one should be able to judge the level of mismanagement and or corporate malfeasance that continues to occur costing BILLIONS of US$...

But look who's the big bad bogey man - the Pilots

IT's DEFLECTION