COS18
 

Just when you thought this place couldn't get any worse! If they can't attract talent now, how do they think they are going to with a massive reduction (destruction) in conditions?

At least we will know the I.Q. of anyone joining on these conditions...

All stick and no carrot.


And the real reason for CMP is brought up:



"Target annual block hours have been set at a high, but attainable level [...] and will be supported by the new CMP enabling pilots to achieve target productivity levels." I assume that will be 900?



Thank you, HKAOA.

How do we know it's 900 max it could be 1200 or no bunk credit, we have also received a cut as we will eventually be doing all regional for maximum productivity and minimum hours the new crew will do all the hours just to get a full pay cheque.

We are the HKAOA what will we do? Trainers are you going to train yourself into a lower pay scale?

I'm all right Jack 😠

With this new contract surely we need to demand CMP requests are awarded in strict seniority. Transparency will be the only way to assure those on 08/99 are not just given the low productive trips resulting in min days off, but reaching 84 hours.

Where do I sign?
After all I love paying 50% of my gross wage to rent a semi decent (by HK standards) size village house in the middle of nowhere!
At least Emirates gives you that for free with utilities included if that is your comparison .....

Many of those who commented on COS18 above are the very same guys who keep on telling LEP about how bad their package is. For years and years now.

Will you now continue the same genius strategy with those on COS18?

All you achieve is a perpetual big fat No in all future negotiations, meaning no pay rise and no secured housing deal.A constant impasse plus the occasional letter in the mailbox informing about the next unilateral change.
Is that what you want??

You guys just have to understand, pretty please, sugar plum with a cherry on top, pleeeeeeeease:

The market has changed,or at least the company thinks it has, either way, like it or not, they will probably get enough people. Nothing to do with the IQ of the new-joiner, the level of talent etc, it is simply still a better option than flying King Airs out of Kigali or working in a cubicle in Shenzen. You need to understand, please, it is not about what we think is fair and just ( I certainly don't), what we deem enough to live on, it is pure and simple a question of demand and supply.

Plus nobody is or was forced to sign and join COS 18 or the former C scale, let's not forget that either.

Firefly, since YEARS you and others are fantasizing about parked aircraft. Hasn't happened or has it?

Maybe it's cheaper for an airline to park instead of paying everybody more, maybe other reasons, what do I know or care! Totally irrelevant for us. Even IF it would happen, I could not care less.

HKAOA totally blind sided by this new COS18. They were never even informed of it's publication. So what the **** do they do at the meetings they insist on attending with the company ? A very quick crunch of the numbers shows the FO salary to be "on a par" with most middle east operators BUT these carriers have tax free regimes and free housing and schooling. This new COS18 does not. So take away the real cost of living as a family in Hong Kong and your are 30-40% behind. Simple maths. The actual contract also permit DEC's should the market dictate.
KA union given a heads up last week.

I am almost impressed by their chutzpah.

Email from DFO last Wednesday and it was discussed in the week before the KA pay deal was agreed. Hence the rush to sign it you knew what was coming. Don't deny it.

Easy.
Group-wide training ban, wef 01Dec18 (the day CoS18 becomes effective).
Anything less and we will be complicit in the destruction of our profession.
It really is that simple.

K.

What are you on about? On refection, the only heads up the KA guys may have had is the resignation of our Head of Training a few weeks ago ( sorry I don't know his correct title ). DPA found out today or just recently? I think we are in this together.

This is a brave counter-attack by the company that will only work if CX and KA pilots are truly routed.

14 month from retirement STW. But I recieved your fatuous comment for the mindless value it represented. Perhaps you might want to comment on the value of the CX career to those under the age of 45? Ie: "0"

Interesting way to "make your point" STW. I believe you are the only one who understands your cleverness.

Then attack the company and not your fellow pilots. Seriously...:rolleyes:

STW, many pilots ARE leaving (and COS 18 will turbocharge that trend). Let's put this one to bed shall we? (btw, I see you "are new here", "0" posts....otherwise known as management. Thanks for suggesting we should just "get on with it and sign the new deal". Are management really getting this desperate?)

This really is Cathay on it's death bed. The airline is completely screwed, and short term cost-cutting will kill it off completely.

Who in THEIR RIGHT MINDS would accept these terms knowing the cost of living and career prospect implications in Hong Kong?

Only one group - South African refugees. That's who this **** jellyfish is catering for, that much is clear. A slight increase in HKPA, overseas kid's education, commute to SA with the low cost of living, simples, come on over, the water is lovely.

NOW is the time to enact a group wide training ban, KA and CX. I should think a recruitment ban. Or maybe even a full on strike. Most of us don't care anymore.

Biggest mistake I ever made joining this sh!t shower of an airline.

lol, the same thing was said a few years ago. Trust me, the spikey haired brigade (MKII) will turn up and pay for their training.....

Bases are dead too. No point in having to comply with labour laws, when someone can have really cheap pilots in Hong Kong. Next NTC, early retirement packages to get more pilots on D scale.

The company will have done it's homework and there will be hundreds who will apply even on COS18. All this was said about D Scalers and there are hundreds of them flying with us now. If you live in a country with a surplus of pilots and a passport that limits your travels then Hong Kong is one rare opportunity to get out and fly jets. For others they can get their pilots wings and live with mum and dad back in HKG so the cost of living isn't a factor. A recruitment ban. How's that going to work? CX does the recruitment not the AOA. A training ban ? Even AOA members have ignored that directive with absolutely no penalties applied. 4 more members moving up to STC on the A fleet this week alone. With Jet and Air India bankrupt there are thousands of pilots looking for a lifeline and the proposed starting FO pay scale is DOUBLE a Jet Airways captains pay. The sub continent will supply the pilots CX needs and miraculously bases will be offered in Mumbai and Delhi for Indian passport holders only ( of course ). Others talk of strike action. Never in a million years will that happen here. KA is being absorbed and will exist for AOC purposes only within 3 years. The task set by the Board to the new DFO is to merge the seniority lists by the end of his tenure. COS18 is phase 1. KA and CX pilots to act as one body. Really. When the CX captains were denied their 13th month did we see the KA pilots suggest a united front.No way. They took their money and banked it. KA pilots are on their own. The kid gloves are off and their cosy "flying club" is no more. They now face the full wrath of CX management and it will be lambs to the slaughter. This is the reality we find ourselves in.

Kitsune you are so right.

A recent point raised this morning, IS IT OVER?

Either the AOA takes positive action or we simply become a membership with insurance benifits.

Are the laws in Hong Kong simply beyond western rules?