Leave slots cancelled, commercial cancellation of flights...so that 4 daily sydney is now 3 daily...rome or paris now becomes rostered week long layover......long haul flights departing with 2 or more captains....leases expiring and aircraft leaving with no replacements for near future...

overall moving the deck chairs to keep semblance of normal...parking a jet would be an open admittance of management incompetence....we cant have that now...we have to ensure we screw the pilots to give us concessions..

And......where are the second hand aircraft that CX have acquired from Emirates? Rumours abound about where they are parked.

Just take a look at the number of aircraft parked between the 07's. They shuffle them in and out to look like they’re not parked long term but the utilisation of airframes must be at its lowest since SARS in 03.

They’re not getting any better at managing, just better at hiding the fact they’re not very good at it.

One airport head was told they are reducing their frequency due to lack of pilots...all smoke and mirrors

You guys are funny! Banging on about how much more KA pilots get paid continuously then expecting us to pursue a further wage disparity with a strategic industrial campaign ? What are the chances of that having success? They’d play your legacy sensibilities off against us ensuring a train wreck.

Another victim of industrial-organizational psychology.

The news over our way changes daily . 5 more aircraft ? Not many at KA would care except juniors and guys who are yet to join. A predictable mess for CX Pilots that should have been addressed years ago with a rational consideration of weighted and protective integration .

And as a postscript the highest paid Pilots in the group are over your way . Rather odd considering your CC campaign . Long haul and OT rather lucrative .

They have already parked a plane , it’s outside the sim building

5 CX 330s coming to KA next year. Replacements only. 5 KA HL series aircraft are reaching end of life an are being replaced.

No expansion plans at KA. Most of the line training captains have just been stood down. Too many with no training planned.

Looks to to me like KA is in limbo and CX is shrinking.

The decision by the DPA to accept 0% had nothing to do with guaranteeing expansion. It was a pragmatic decision. The company had made a loss and the optics of KA pilots demanding a pay rise just weren’t going to be good. No one at the meeting was happy with that. In fact no one even spoke in support of the motion. It carried because of the practicalities of the situation.

However should the company post a profit ( as expected) there is an expectation the company will compensate us for our patience. I wouldn’t expect the same vote next time.

Giggerty, You state “. There is an expectation that company will compensate us for our patience “

i dont want want to be rude , but seriously when has the company EVER compensated any employee for their patience or doing the right thing in hard times ?

Exactly.
Swire playbook rule one. At every opportunity complain about economic downturns, competition, currency movements, fuel prices, yield, return on capital invested, etc.
Swire playbook rule two. If despite their sheer incompetence they actually make money, complain that aviation is cyclic and any of the factors in rule one are just around the corner.

We’ve all been had. They reward themselves handsomely year after year irrespective of financial results due to the “cyclic nature of the aviation industry”, yet in a classical “privatize the profits, socialize the losses” playbook, rarely reward their staff even during the good times. Management laugh that we now have to fight for 13th month as it has effectively consigned profit share to the history books.
The pigs have rewritten the barn wall slogan. 13th month IS profit share.

If the expectation isn’t met then the outcome of the vote will be different. I’m sure CC will get the numbers if a profit is made and nothing is coming our way. It seems to be the general consensus that a limit had been reached.

Look we all know what that vote was about: The older generation not wanting to rock the boat and see the notice given on the FLPS. That was the talk of the town; if we go into CC they will pull our leave scheme!

Understandable from that perspective, but let’s call it what it was. Voting NO to the offer did not mean voting YES to CC or any other form of action. It meant no this offer is not good enough and come back with something better. Our membership voted that this was good enough.

This will be the third year in a row that we get 0% inflation adjustment. Even if profits are made we must “claw back” hedging losses before anything happens. Another vote will be had and the new offer, same as the old offer, will be voted in because “we have to protect the leave scheme”.

Then after the negotiations and industrial tension dies down for a second the inevitable whinging and complaining will start again on the flight deck. It is what it is and actually quite rational; I would probably have the same thinking process if I was a B scaler with a couple years left.

Let’s also remember we are on the longest Bull run in history as we speak with what I believe is the biggest world wide pilot shortage in history. This party is not going to last forever, a cycle correction will happen sooner or later. If we can’t get inflation adjustment when times are this good in the world wide economy, I fear we have interesting times ahead.

Dr F.
I can appreciate where you’re coming from, and to a large extent I agree with you. You are correct. Voting No wasn’t a vote for CC, it was just a rejection of an offer. No one is happy with 0%. We could have voted No and seen what the consequences were. Maybe the company would have caved in and come back to the table or maybe they would have headed for the trenches. I suspect the latter if you reference their dealings with the AOA of the last few years.

I voted yes this time because the risk versus reward just didn’t add up. You can’t get blood from a stone and I felt the timing wasn’t right to escalate things. That was my thoughts at the time, and where I differ from you.
However, I’m certain that I and many others will not be so accepting in future. I’ll be voting No unless there is a significant offer made. I don’t think I’m alone.

Good luck with that next offer giggy! Missed opportunity perhaps?

Interesting you bring up OT, I sat waiting in the queue for Beijing recently with a 70 minute delay and got paid zero for it while my colleagues a few gates down at KA also going to Beijing picked up nearly an hour’s overtime.
Usually when the company is utilising divide and conquer tactics it’s throwing a bone to KA while big brother gets nothing. I’m slowly sorting my kids fees for University, pity I’m not getting them paid for.

Morning Coffee, it’s not overtime. It’s HDP. Big difference.

Morning Coffee...excellent post! You pleasantly surprised me. I’ve disagreed with you on some past discussions, but you are spot on today! I tip my hat to you.

It bothers me when the Company try’s to drive down our pay (as they have over and over and over) by comparing our pay to low cost, third world, carriers. All the while ignoring (pretending not to notice) the better overall package paid to the sister airline in our own group! Things like hourly duty pay, university education, better leave..and of course, a guaranteed 13th month are items in the Dragon contract that are not in the Cathay contract.

If the Dragon contract was inferior to the Cathay contract our management would be beating us over the head with it. The fact that they never even mention it (pretending not to notice) speaks volumes about which contract is better.

We’ll just have to wait and see on that one.

MC. If we are sitting on the gate then we are not getting paid overtime either. The park brake has to be off for that. We do get paid an hourly duty pay but that’s beer money in comparison to OT.

I’ve parked quite a few lately.

Free hills,
Good point. I have mates at Dragon, my comments are in NO WAY meant to denigrate the great guys/gals at Dragon. Far from it. I only wish to point out the obvious when the Company pretends not to notice the better contract at our sister airline (not to mention legacy carriers in first world countries) while comparing ours to low cost, third world, start ups.

I hope our Dragon colleagues understand that what I am doing is calling out the “divide and conquer” tactics so obviously on display.

So some of you are happy with your mates at KA training CX Airbus Crew so the company can get around the training ban. Because they’re your mates? Or is that not happening?

But thx for clearing up the perception that KA got OT if they went past block time due delays before push.

Kudos to KA for getting provident fund paid as cash, the deluded amongst us at CX think the money’s as safe as in the bank. Lol

because the dfo has already posted something along the lines of concessions with regard to provident fund....i.e. the company paying too much and want to align it to local terms for contributions.

Yes and she’s on the way out.

Any devaluation of terms and the company will start to look for a large size parking spot. Pilots are really fed up with this place anyway.

From what I gather that doesn’t seem to be true. I might be naive here, but my ORSO is in my name with the employers contribution and my contribution clearly defined, managed by a third party (HSBC).

I can’t see how anyone could appropriate my ORSO account? It’s not the same system as a pension system where the entire groups money is all lumped together and you have the rights to a certain part of the pie when it’s your time. This is simply an individual savings/investment portfolio.

Not the most ideal one (have a look at the charges), but it seems to be mine providing I comply with the rules set out in the scheme.

Depends on where you are and how it is set up. If the fund relies on benefits based on the solvency of the company (including national pension schemes and Social Security, etc.) this is correct. There are some national guarantee schemes but these are usually a fraction of what the benefits might have been.

In a 401K or 401-K like scheme not so much in that it is your money to start with and national laws preclude external meddling. So these types of funds cannot be touched except by the beneficiary. Now I guess you could argue that the individually chosen investments—which often have wide choices— are only as safe as the market at large but then again so is the cash and banking systems of most nations. And if these all come down at once it’s probanly time to head for the hills to fight the zombies anyway.

It is wise never ever to put all your eggs in one basket though.

MC


70 minutes is standard . Try doing a month of PEK flying, on a KA roster in summer, with 6+ hours delay. OT is savaged and you are on a rolling minimum rest and stby. Despite what you are being fed, there is nothing pleasant about a China dominant roster and KA’s COS offers little protection.

In your scenario, how did a KA pilot get an extra hour OT? Are you fabricating or another victim of industrial and organizational psychology, that seems to present CX Pilots as the smartest - dumbest pilots in the industry !

If our contract and flying is so good push for integration ? And again, please PM me your last 3 years of tax returns and we can compare apples and oranges.

The only way a KA pilot would get more OT than you, in your scenario, is a landing on the western most runways and a single engine taxi.

Gnadenburg,

You seem to delight in turning every thread into a CX/KA p!ss!ng contest. We are not competing, so perhaps it's time to give it a rest.

Most CX pilots don't understand your COS and you sure don't understand ours. The mere fact you asked to see an anonymous poster's tax returns indicates how out of touch you are. Firstly, these posters may or may not be CX pilots and secondly, if you had a clue about CX you would know that someone's earnings will vary wildly depending as to their fleet. To carry on your logic, you won't be comparing apples to oranges, you will be comparing apples to mandarins, to oranges to grapefruit.

However, irrespective if you work for CX or KA, we all get the occasional un-lubed pineapple and that's what should unite us all!!:cool:

Liam

There is no delight. I actually feel threatened by the ignorant swipes and references by CX staff to the “superior” COS at KA. My last two rebuttals were of two CX pilots who had made blatantly incorrect comments that fuel a dangerous ignorance. Have a re-read please !

A few weeks ago an earlier company approach, for what I viewed was COS tampering, was oddly withdrawn due the negative potential reaction of CX pilots . Whichever way you look at it, it’s another avenue of attack of playing off envy of one pilot group of another - the fuel being the disinformation like what’s seen here on pprune.

The PM request of tax returns was rhetorical . It’s a statement of what we all know. There are elements of each pilot group doing better then others and COS comparisons are impossible. That said, watch the disinformation sprayed by management, to sponsor the industrial envy that triggers a human satisfaction of feeling better off than the others. Net result is we all get screwed which we seem to mutually agree upon.