What leadership....? :ugh:

I stand corrected about office ownership and fees. I left the afternoon the 49ers were fired and have no regrets.
As for leadership it neither provides or promotes it in anyway and is totally reactive to management. 2018 24 hours away and still no plan. Hopeless.

LOL u left the moment the 49ers were fired? Umm did that action come from your sense that not being in the HKAOA you could avoid being the 50th fired? yep gutless is said with that statement and then you call out any action by the HKAOA as weak? Such a brave character

Come on guys, go easy on him, someone has to work g days and train our replacements!

Checklistcomplete is a management stool.

A week ago he mentioned overhearing a conversation in crew control, an apparent breach of contract compliance, which he passed onto the union.
The couple of GC members I know have absolutely no knowledge about this conversation being passed on.
And now checklistcomplete claims he’s been a non-member for 16 years, while still claiming he passes info on to the union leadership.
If he’s not management, he’s got serious issues.

The aoa isn’t perfect by a long way, but they must be doing something right if the company are trying to discredit them on a public forum.

Sticks and stones !
You lot belong in the school playground.
And Dan Buster, don't bring the service into it. We all know your record there ?

Why did you leave the afternoon the 49ers were fired?

Ipad

50+ captains went to the AOA office that afternoon demanding we bring the airline to a standstill that day. We were over ruled by the few GC members who were there and told the guys would be re-instated within 48 hours. 5 years and 3 deaths later !
More than 30 of us resigned within the 48 hours and throughout donated to the cause. Many of the 49ers were my good friends and the total lack of AOA action on that day finished off any faith I had in that body to do anything right for the members. 16 years later I believe I have been proved right. A case in point was the Paris Base closure where initially the union was complicit in the dirty deeds of the company. Then exposed in correspondence they changed their minds and supported every pilot on the base only to retract that offer of support, restricting it to members only. Disgraceful and dishonest.

And for the record

I don't work G days
I don't do training anymore
I don't do discretion
I am not management
I am leaving in March

Checklistcomplete

I'll take what you say at face value.

I was sharing a beer with a freighter mate and he was adamant that we have had our first victim of a political termination (JL). He was (understandly) worked up.

I don't know JL and I've only heard one side of what happened to him. However, if there's even a shread of truth and JL has indeed been victimised, what do you think our response should be? Is handing JL 6 or 9 month's salary enough? Does the money cleanse our conscience, but leave us all open to further victimisation? Should JL's reinstatement become a condition of the release of the TB? (Assuming he would want to come back to this utter shower of :mad:?).

Are we sleep walking into the same trap of 2001?

Liam
Thank you.
I am leaving this forum.
Good luck to all.
Checklistcomplete out.

As opposed to all the brave members with the help of the AoA that sold the 49ers only 4 years later because paying 5% eventually became too much of a burden.

JL's reinstatement should be a condition of cessation of CC and the TB. Non-negotiable. Even if JL 'erred' in someway, he should not have lost his job, and he has without doubt been targeted and victimized by the Company. He should not be a sacrificial lamb. He is offered his job back, and then CC and TB end. Not before.

And there’s the problem, we couldn’t support 49 guys when we were paying 5% but plenty thought it was too much. And now the union is now asking for under 0.5%, a 10th of what wasn’t enough last time. Either the GC haven’t bothered to look at what it cost back then, or they know there’s no depth of support in the AOA aside from lots of talk and a woeful 0.5% is all anyone will give these days.

Tell you what MC. How about we not have to deal with any management cretins like you on New Years Day? How about it? The evil empire should be relaxing and enjoying their bonuses. The main thing to remember is, as in Star Wars, the Empire falls...eventually. No different here. One day the Swire 'empire' will be crushed, and swept away like dust. Just like all empires. And the minions who served her will be nothing more than forgotten cogs in a machine. You stand for nothing noble. Not a single fiber of your being.

If it’s the JL that I think it is and the rumour is true , he has definitely been victimised . There can be no excuse for the company taking this course of action aside from a criminal conviction for something ,or denting a jumbo. Neither eventuality is likely .

Checklist , I would ask you to reconsider your retirement from prune , your posts are well thought out and presented and you will be missed .

Traf : I must agree that JL reinstatement is a prerequisite of any cessation of the CC sadly though if the Capts won’t go out for a 9% pay cut it’s unlikely that they will do what is required to secure JL reinstatement

Congratulations to AT,RH,DP et al. Comment in the past few days from some of the pilots on Yammer: "...this yammer page has been going since Dec 17th, and still NO change from management...". It's quite sad that supposedly 'intelligent' senior pilots think that simply expressing how upset they are will have any effect on managements intent and strategy. To the pilots in question, what did YOU DO to express your anger? I know what I did, and am doing. If you think that simply making a Yammer comment is somehow going to have any effect, then you probably shouldn't be in a commercial airline cockpit ! Again, congrats to management. You have simply waited out the storm and most of my colleagues have lost their momentum. Mission accomplished.

Correct! Yammer and even Pprune are just venues for venting. Let the steam out, reduce the pressure and stress... CX ought to be paying Pprune for the service.

No, the people who should be paying PPRUNE (or at least thanking them) are those pilots who now have the freedom of information it provides to help them prevent making the mistake of coming to HK, and in particular CX. In the pre-internet days, it was almost impossible to really find out if you were about to sink into the abyss. Now, even though some of it is shrill, the facts float to the top and most people can discern them. CX management lamely thinks they can 'manage' the truth. The truth is what is burying they and their dysfunctional regime. (Yammer is useless and is exactly what you have described. The management couldn't care less what we say on Yammer. PPRUNE is a different matter entirely).

I acknowledge the difference and think you are right. However, a good rant of Pprune is not what is going to save us. We need action, lots of it, and yesterday. Sure, PR is good too, and I think the HKAOA could do much better in that arena.

I truly believe there is much more 'action' going on than most suspect. There is a seriously high sickness rate, exponentially increasing resignation rate and a general lack of interest in jobs at CX to any pilot with measurable experience. The truth is now out there, and most people have enough sense to stay far away.