End of CX housing..
 

the nails in the coffin already.. now its time to get lowered into the ground..

Cathay Pacific to slash housing packages for pilots as part of ongoing cost-cutting drive | South China Morning Post

Well, there is three months before there can be any materiel change. I strongly suggest that during those three months we each individually demonstrate to Anna the effect of pissing off the pilots. I am certainly going to do my part. Good luck with the schedule over the next three months Anna. Best.

I believe those 3 months should be spent rearranging your housing situation so you can either afford to live in HK under the current HKPA conditions or leave.

Cathay don't follow rules or care about contracts, if they say they're taking it away then it's going to happen one way or another.

So how does Anna expect pilots to live in HK without housing allowance ?
If Cathay had used their brains 30 years ago and bought apartments instead of renting them, they would have benefited from the capital gain, and the housing allowance would have come back to them as well.
It's not rocket science it's just good economics, but as the fuel debacle has demonstrated they seem incapable of making sensible decisions.
Apartments that cost HK$ 12 million in 1997 are now selling for close to $100 million . By now CX would have a massive property portfolio , another opportunity lost

I wonder how much Anna's rental will be cut .? Oh how stupid to even consider that she would be made to suffer any kind of cuts

Well this should make it a lot easier for people to make the decision to leave

Will upper management cut their housing allowance? No thought not! This is nothing but modern day feudalism, it started with the bankers in 2008 and now the rest of the corporate elite are getting in on the game.

indeed. Corporate mentality took over

All this huffing and puffing on anonymous forums might provide some short term gratification for many, but in the morning the sun will still be black.

In the real world, this comes down to one single issue. Are you willing to resign over this? If not, then you get what you deserve.

Rather than resign, why not do something that union members do elsewhere in the world? If you lose your job at least you've accomplished something on the way out.

Agree with Oval...stop expecting others to fight your battles. Every one of us has it in their power to do something.

If you're too stressed to fly...and many people on this forum are clearly showing signs of stress...then lobby your GC to do something (that certainly includes you boys and gals at KA and those on a base)....and in the end if it is still affecting your mental capacity then see an AME.

So three years of CC is working out well then.......
It's like watching two people take turns at punching each other in the face!

how about a mass sickout for starters

What happened when the 49ers were fired? Nothing.

What will happen now? Nothing.

Mark my words.

+1

Air Berlin and TUI have done this in the past also. It will take more than wearing a red lanyard and CC to be taken seriously.

Every single ARAPA recipient should be planning on immediate stress leave. If you are not willing to act NOW to defend your contract, rights and family security, then please DO NOT complain after the expiration of the 90 day cooling off period. The company is gambling on us not reacting. The ONLY power we have is to demonstrate immediately how our goodwill (or lack thereof) will cripple this airline. Again, please DO NOT complain after the 90 days is up and housing is gone. It will be very easy to know who did and did not take action. This is the final assault on our contracts. If we don't fight back now we never will. Time to declare whether you have character and integrity or not.

43% on ARAPA ... therefore 57% think, "Phew, doesn't effect me. I'll be OK". As all too often happens, divide and conquer ... and it will work.

The first 60 days of the 90 day cooling off period (i.e. until 30 Nov) are during the lowest travel season of the year. Notice how they always have a go at us during Sep/Oct, or Apr/May ? They quote the diminishing loads and yields etc etc. That's because it's low season!!!!

The last 30 days of the 90 day cooling off are probably where I'm likely to feel most stressed, as the potential hardship for my family approaches rapidly.....

What percentage of spending on employees goes on senior management and directors, and what percentage of the workforce do they make up ?

It appears pilots get 3.4 times more spent on them then they would if everyone got the same rate of spend. How does the board come out ?

It's utterly pointless complaining about it here if you don't actually DO anything.

Absolutely, the problem is largely due to stupid managerial fuel hedging (aka gambling) losses etc for which you are now being forced pay the price. There is also the age-old issue of the arrogance of managerial isolation from penalties applied to lowly staff.

But whining on PPRUNE about the injustice of management or the current and past faults of the union won't fix one thing. PPRUNE rants aren't an effective industrial tool.

If you work as a coherent group where at least 80-90% of you act semi-uniformly, you will be fine. But in CX that seems an unlikely scenario. Evidently there will always be people 'philosophically opposed' to what may be seen as industrial action and willing to ingratiate themselves by working on G days or undermining their peers in other ways.

How you bypass this fact to rectify the declining fortunes of the CX pilot is the key to success. For sure if you are a late 20's or thirty-something CX pilot you must se the writing on the wall. HK is an unhealthy place for your family so why suffer that and reduced conditions when there is a rapidly emerging pilot-hungry market out there? Granted you may need to get out of your comfort zone but that zone may not be very comfortable in future anyhow, so why not act now?

There are highly intelligent organisers within your ranks. Think outside the box and act smart. Pulling up short of the chocks potentially isn't that smart. The question is what and how?

Perhaps for example set up the "HKG Pilot Placement Agency PLC" where you package and market entire blocks of current and experienced pilots pitched at the likes of Middle Eastern carriers (for those happy to live there) or direct entry positions to the mass of desperate new and existing carriers (Westjet's new Canadian startup, SAS Ireland, Air Japan, even Norwegian etc) where your skills would be a godsend and you could live away from pollution. Not a perfect answer but just one suggestion.

Thus, those who see a rapidly declining future in CX can take charge of your destinies quickly and move, courtesy of the reputation of your skilled peers. Those who wish to remain will benefit from the fact CX would need to reconsider knee-jerk financial penalties on staff arising from their own managerial ineptitude. Retaining staff would be cheaper than retraining hundreds of pilots so this would actually be a CX win too. A win-win-win! Act dumb and divided and nobody wins. Be smart and cohesive and it can work well for all, even those staff and managers too myopic not to see that yet.

Hopefully the exodus of pilots from Ryanair and the mess that loudmouth finds himself in will be a wake-up call to airlines that you do actually need to treat staff respectfully free from arrogant managerial isolation.

Goodwill is long dead... we should rather be showing the company how much “badwill” costs them when you have your own workforce working against you at every opportunity... goodwill is long gone may it never return

To be honest I struggle to understand why anyone affected would show up to fly if they really take away housing unilaterally.

Politically, as I understand it, the AOA could never do that. An organised sick out that is. You may as well call it a strike. Don't even waste your emotions or bandwith asking for it whether it be here or on the actual forum.

An actual date where we can all show our disgust will come via different avenues and hopefully not via WhatsApp groups which have spies lurking there.

I've said it before, there is only one effective response to this.

47% of HK-based pilots need to resign en-masse. Three months notice, starting now.

If the company brings resolve to the table the mass-resignation is withdrawn. Water under the bridge. CX cannot pick and choose; it's all out and all back in. Solidarity in its truest form.

But the move entails considerable risk for the 47%. What of CX accepts the resignations? What if they're willing to drastically cut production to rid themselves of overpaid staff?

If they are, then you needs to ask yourself if this is really where you want to be in the first place. It will never get better.

History shows that appeasement only delays the enivatable when dealing with such people. No more letters, no more negotiations, no more daydreaming of sick-outs, training bans, contract compliance and withdrawal of goodwill. They won't get you to the finish line. These tactics only divide, confuse, delay and give the company enough time to manage the situation.

This is it. Either fight the ultimate battle or capitulate. Stand up for yourself or get what you deserve.

And for those unfamiliar with labour struggles; en-masse resignations is just a fancy word for a strike.

For those of us not close to Cathay, can someone please just mention what the abbreviation ARAPA stands for? I realise it has something to do with local housing in the contracts, but what is the actual term? Just curious, thanks.

Strikes and resignations are 2 very different things

Ask the Aussies if that was such a good idea back in 1989.

In practic and common language, yes.

But in legal terms, they're exactly the same thing. Especially in Hong Kong.

No one is going to do anything because of good old seniority and starting at the bottom of a new company will always be worse than a pay cut. A lot of chest beating and swearing but it's all just hot air unfortunately.

And those that do have the kahunas to leave will be a very small percentage just like the base closures and CX is more than happy with that.

Look, the company's position is that the 47% have too much to lose to take any personal risk.

And they're probably right. Which makes all this huffing and puffing a joke, because in the end no B or A scaler is willing to face the risks associated with open conflict. Which the mentioned Aussies did. However, if England had used Poland as an historical example of what happens when you stand up to evil, we'd all be speaking German.

So take the 30-grand and be happy you had a good run while it lasted. To fight and win you need to be ready to lose it all.

Are you are journo fishing around?

Very sad, end of the line for Cathay as a world airline

Clearly appalling management, deceitful dishonest and untrustworthy, do I want to fly on an airline like that?

Pilots stressed, understandable, I know exactly how big an issue this is if you live in HK, its like the company saying oh by the way we have halved your wages. So strikes or hardship or other actions by pilots-do I want to fly on an airline like that?

Inexperienced senior management who think only of their self importance , screw the pilots over today , cut back on fuel reserves and maintenance tomorrow-do I want to fly on an airline like that?

Good luck guys and girls, I ve had some very nice trips on CX over the years but it seems I ve had my last one because , do I want to fly on an airline like that?

I just operated today. The majority of the chat was about the above and its implications for the group as a whole, inc KA.

We missed several radio calls and forgot several SOP items.

This issue is a cloud over safe operations. Its a real threat within the flight deck. It will become more so as the debate intensifies.

Its human nature to speculate.
Its inevitable this issue will become a real distraction during daily operations . Period.

THEY DON'T CARE. About you ,your career, your family, your dog, or your duckpond.
They don't give a s##t about the future, or profits, or cost, or passengers, or CX, or aviation.
They don't care if you crash and kill hundreds. It is your fault, not theirs.
Cutting costs in their silo will generate short term bonuses and then they're gone to tugboats in Jesselton or wherever.
They hate you, and they hate their customers.

Take a ride o the HAS bus & do a bit of eavesdropping if you want to know how things are going, em not so well. & That little logbook stamp on the third floor will need to be replaced pretty soon....

Share price up around 2% and will be up again Monday. Market seems pretty happy with efficiencies gained. Not really sure where all this bluster is going. Until we know what the new housing is there's no point in getting worked up.

I was waiting for it, I'm surprised it took this long for someone to mention 1989.

As if that single event in a god forsaken island with a tiny population south of the equator is going to dictate the industrial dos and don'ts globally for the rest of time. FFS let it go, this is the 21st century, times are different, the place is different, and the scenario is completely different.

No, certainly not, just an interested observer! And someone here has now sent me a PM with the meaning of the abbreviation, so thanks to them.

Dragon69: really mate, you are so naive and short sighted it’s......well amazing.

What happened in ‘89 was the beginning of the end of Airline Pilot as a career anywhere in the World, the ramifications of which are still bouncing around the Globe everyday. Airline managers wet their pants with excitement over this.

ACMS. . let me take a wild guess... you're Australian...

Of course in your little mind you think that airline flying was invented and perfected down under, so naturally you would make the assumption that 1989 was the precipitous to a global change in the industry, but if you take the time and look beyond your arrogant blinkers, you would see that there's been plenty of unionised airlines that have fought back and brought about positive change.

Dragon, the subject of '89' came up because a poster on this thread suggested a mass resignation a la 'that year. Yes, we know that it occurred over a quarter of a century ago, but it is the only major precedent for the mass resignation tactic. Quite rightly, a number of responders suggested that a similar tactic in Hong Kong would not end well.

Even though it involved a couple of pissant airlines down under, it had a profound effect globally for years, including solving crewing shortages for, inter alia, Swissair, Malaysian, Singapore, the Gulf airlines and of course Cathay Pacific. Australians became the Filipinos of the aviation industry. The 'grey wall' tactic of no communications with the pilots after the resignations is a response I am sure the industrial warfare consultants still have in their playbooks, along with the threat of legal action which led to the resignations in the first place.

Please indulge me, as I went through it all.

"Safety is our Number 1 priority" is their mantra.
Withdrawing a fundamental right to a decent home is inconsistent with their No1 priority. So either leave housing alone or see what the public thinks of a new mantra:
"Profits and reducing personnel ( sorry - 'people') costs to an absolute minimum is our No1 priority."
If you guys let this pass you deserve everything you get.